[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by MRSMITH

Well, maybe a year from now things will indeed be different, but it seems to me that we've got to live in the here and now.

I've got no problem with this except for one thing: if you're going to live in the "here and now", you must keep in mind we're dealing with the introduction of new technology, which has yet to be ironed out and stabilized for mass consumption. When Mac OS X first came out, it was radically different from OS 9 and had all kinds of problems. Guess what? Those problems got fixed and OS X now is much more solid, stable, and reliable than the first versions. A similar thing is going on here. To expect the first run of ANY new technology to perform as if it's already matured is simply unrealistic. Of course, it's your choice to have unrealisitic expectations just as long as you realize they are unrealistic.

Hell, for all I know, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray may both be supplanted by some new format that purportedly holds one terrabyte on a regular-size DVD for movie distribution.

Yep, that's possible but is it likely? Nope. Additionally, even if a new technology with far greater storage capacity than what HD-DVD and Blu-Ray offer now were to come out a year from now, what we're seeing now would be repeated with this new technology. Quirks, problems, lack of (whatever) and this ball would be pushed back up the hill to roll down, as its rolling down now.

The thing is, HD-DVD has proven itself as a viable format and the issues with the first gen player are being worked out via firmware updates. I don't know what the next gen of HD-DVD will offer or how it will perform but it shouldn't have the problems the HD-A1 has or had and it might even have NEW problems of its own (which I'm thinking is likely).

I've never suggested to anyone that they not buy HD-DVD/Blu-Ray or even D-VHS or LaserDisk or any other medium.

Your comments on the previous page certainly advocate an upconverting DVD player over the HD formats, but that's always been your position so it's to be expected from you.

My entire point is that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray image as of this writing is little better than a high-quality upcon' of a first-class standard DVD transfer, and most professional independent reviewers, starting with David Colker in the L.A. Times, seem to agree - categorizing HD-DVD as "unimpressive".

The pro reviewers are entitled to their opinions, just as you are, but that doesn't mean they are right or any "more" right than me or more importantly those who actually own the players being discussed. If HD-DVD truly was not as impressive as the hype implied, the early adopters of HD-DVD would have reported that and there would be mass returns of HD-DVD players. People would STOP buying HD-DVD releases and HD-DVD would basically come to a skreetching halt. This has not been the case. One other thing, given the issues raised with the Blu-Ray transfers thus far it's not right to "lump" HD-DVD and Blu-Ray together, at this point. The various Blu-Ray reviews that have remained online thus far indicate less than stellar video performance and spot-on audio performance (which you still don't consistently mention). This has NOT been the case with HD-DVD releases.

It is not at all surprising that posters in these forums, as H/T enthusuasts, have categorized the images as 'slightly better' to 'significantly better'. I agree wholeheartedly with the 'slightly better' characterization - and that is exactly what the pro's have stated as well. As to 'significantly better', well I disagree based upon what I've personally seen over hours of looking at HD-DVD:

And that's cool. I don't expect everyone to be a fan of HD on DVD, since a lot of it is subjective. However, the "significantly better" reports, again from owners of the players and movie releases, are outnumbering the 'slightly better' reports. Keep in mind, some of these reports are coming from Blu-Ray supporters who decided to give HD-DVD a try even though they prefer Blu-Ray. If anything, I would expect these people to submit the lackluster reports, but that is not the case. Of course, I don't speak in absolutes.

As soon as the machines were available locally, I took off and viewed the accompanying Toshiba demo' disk of hi-def clips on both a 50-inch plasma(Elite model) and a new 72-inch Toshiba DLP, for about 90 minutes(nobody else was around at two stores looking at it at all), and I saw on these bigger screens exactly what Colker saw on small screens. A very good image, but essentially little difference from an upcon on the same player.

So, you played the Toshiba demo disk on a HD-A1 and on an upconverting player? Or are you going by your "gut"? Why not do a "real world" test, like you did with Blu-Ray and compare U-571 or Last Samurai or Serenity on HD-DVD with upconverted DVD and see what you find? Why not? At least, then you would be fair and not using your Blu-Ray experiment to unfairly label HD-DVD, as you've been doing above.

The core of the problem as of this writing, it seems to me, is not that the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray images are very good(they are), but that they're just not better enough to warrant $500 to $1000 for the players and $25-plus for the disks.

That's cool, what you're saying is you're not an early adopter. If that's the case, simply say that. Prices will come down and we're already seeing sales on HD-DVD titles, etc. Additionally, with Netflix stocking both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray titles, you can rent them and spend $0 on titles to watch.

the gushing public pronouncements from the studios and the machine manufacturers.

What do you expect from the studios and the machine manufacturers? This statement makes me believe you tend to take all advertisement purely at face value. Is this the case?

Your assertion that we may all look at this very differently a year from now is certainly valid, but how do you know that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not have been replaced by something better by then?

That is not my assertion. My statement is: give the technology a chance to mature, then we can compare a mature technology (HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) with another mature technology (DVD) and I'm sure our argument will be much different.

HD-DVD and Blu-Ray won't be replaced with something "better" in a year that will not go through the same maturity process we're going through right now with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

LaserDisk gave way pretty fast to DVD, and I'm not altogether convinced that the same thing cannot happen all over again.

Yep, it did... after a 20+ year run. Also, how long did the LD vs DVD wars rage, especially on the audio side? I know you've seen the same LD vs DVD audio threads on AVS Forum proving some LDs still had superior audio to the DVD counterparts. Remember Bjoern Roy?

So what's going to decide in the near term? IMO two things: a unified format, or at least players that display both formats on the same machine, and radically reduced pricing for both hardware and software.

Although radically reduced prices would be desired, I don't think it will happen until the players stabilize and the studios have confidence in them. A universal player is also desirable, but looks unlikely right now. I think the only thing that can save Blu-Ray is better software authoring and cleaner video processing from Sony and Pioneer players. I don't know what Toshiba has up its sleeve to counter the introduction of these Blu-Ray players.

I'm convinced that - based upon image performance to date - there is just no way that the general mass consumer market is going to shell out anything approaching $500 to $1,000 for the players and $25-plus for disks.

I agree and not based on video performance. The great thing is, nor HD-DVD or Blu-Ray are "ready" for mass consumption so the masses don't have to think about these formats yet.

One question I have for you, when you watch a movie do you have the sound muted?

Sorry I can't be a cheering section for HD-DVD/Blue-Ray so far, but not telling it like it is would be a disservice it seems.

That's ok, there are plenty of other HD on DVD cheerleaders out there. I do agree with you on the "telling it like it is" and I wish you would start doing just that....

By the way, we have a forum dedicated to HD discussion. Find the appropriate thread in that forum and we can continue this there.

Peace....