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Derb · 06-14-2007, 10:53 AM

Lossless audio is just as important to both HD formats as anamorphic widescreen is to DVD... in a nutshell.

Usually lossless tracks can be distiguished from their lossy counterparts if you hear subtle sounds that can't be heard in comparison.

Some LPCM tracks sound like the difference is only volume based, it is louder so it must be better right? I take samples of select scenes in films which offer both lossy & lossless tracks in this case & match each level's db output to see if in fact volume is the factor only. 99% (I am getting tired of doing so btw) the difference is there other than volume output. When I match the lossy db to the lossless track, I usually hear slight distortion mainly coming from the center channel. Surrounds are not mixed as well either when matched. What happens most of the time is the lossy track will distort the center & dilaog gets muted by the surrounds when they become very active. The mix is usually uneven when matched head to head.

Lossy vs. Lossy

I don't buy that dts is always the better option. I've heard 640kbps Dolby tracks which sound better (By that, I mean vocals, acoustics, bass, surrounds) than 1.5mbps tracks on a few releases. Very few though. I have found more to be a wash in comparison, or slightly better with the dts track. I suggest people who have titles that offer both, don't assume the dts is always the better option.. you may be surprised.

Lossless vs. Lossless

I have only heard a few tracks now (on the same disc) that offer both TrueHD & LPCM. 1 title was a wash, the other title wasn't. Stomp The Yard... A true apples to apples comparison. After testing the crap out of this disc for 30+ minutes trying to distinguish wether or not there is an audible difference at all, I found one. The Dolby TrueHD track has the Acoustic level tweaked more than the LPCM which makes trebile sound more dynamic & speech slightly more crisp without distortion. I doubt future releases will have a noticeable difference over 1 over the other. Doesn't mean I will stop continuing to check thou.

One title certainly has me scratching my head over.. The Chris Botti concert for BD. It includes a 640kbps lossy Dolby track & (thanks to the PS3) a 13.8mbps lossless track. Almost in every area of the concert, the Dolby track is not only louder, but dynamically blows away the lossless track without distortion. I checked the disc out numerous times during the concert flipping back & fourth between Lossy & Lossless & everytime I switched to the Dolby track subtle sounds from the band & audience sounded clearer & mixed louder through the surrounds. I went into the menu a few times while switching to be sure. So that is the first Lossy track I have heard that bests its Lossless counterpart.

Bottom line is, I feel Lossless sound should have been a mandatory audio choice like DD+ from the get-go. Only once have I heard a lossy track sound better. Should add that Lossless is better than Lossy because you never hear a ping-pong effect through your surrounds. If an effect in the film/mix requires the surrounds to become active, the audio outputs to each channel in a seamless fashion. "Constantine" has many great examples of this.

06-14-2007, 10:53 AM	#25 (permalink)
Derb Actor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada	Lossless audio is just as important to both HD formats as anamorphic widescreen is to DVD... in a nutshell. Usually lossless tracks can be distiguished from their lossy counterparts if you hear subtle sounds that can't be heard in comparison. Some LPCM tracks sound like the difference is only volume based, it is louder so it must be better right? I take samples of select scenes in films which offer both lossy & lossless tracks in this case & match each level's db output to see if in fact volume is the factor only. 99% (I am getting tired of doing so btw) the difference is there other than volume output. When I match the lossy db to the lossless track, I usually hear slight distortion mainly coming from the center channel. Surrounds are not mixed as well either when matched. What happens most of the time is the lossy track will distort the center & dilaog gets muted by the surrounds when they become very active. The mix is usually uneven when matched head to head. Lossy vs. Lossy I don't buy that dts is always the better option. I've heard 640kbps Dolby tracks which sound better (By that, I mean vocals, acoustics, bass, surrounds) than 1.5mbps tracks on a few releases. Very few though. I have found more to be a wash in comparison, or slightly better with the dts track. I suggest people who have titles that offer both, don't assume the dts is always the better option.. you may be surprised. Lossless vs. Lossless I have only heard a few tracks now (on the same disc) that offer both TrueHD & LPCM. 1 title was a wash, the other title wasn't. Stomp The Yard... A true apples to apples comparison. After testing the crap out of this disc for 30+ minutes trying to distinguish wether or not there is an audible difference at all, I found one. The Dolby TrueHD track has the Acoustic level tweaked more than the LPCM which makes trebile sound more dynamic & speech slightly more crisp without distortion. I doubt future releases will have a noticeable difference over 1 over the other. Doesn't mean I will stop continuing to check thou. One title certainly has me scratching my head over.. The Chris Botti concert for BD. It includes a 640kbps lossy Dolby track & (thanks to the PS3) a 13.8mbps lossless track. Almost in every area of the concert, the Dolby track is not only louder, but dynamically blows away the lossless track without distortion. I checked the disc out numerous times during the concert flipping back & fourth between Lossy & Lossless & everytime I switched to the Dolby track subtle sounds from the band & audience sounded clearer & mixed louder through the surrounds. I went into the menu a few times while switching to be sure. So that is the first Lossy track I have heard that bests its Lossless counterpart. Bottom line is, I feel Lossless sound should have been a mandatory audio choice like DD+ from the get-go. Only once have I heard a lossy track sound better. Should add that Lossless is better than Lossy because you never hear a ping-pong effect through your surrounds. If an effect in the film/mix requires the surrounds to become active, the audio outputs to each channel in a seamless fashion. "Constantine" has many great examples of this. __________________ My Blu-ray Collection Time for Blu to go mainstream.