DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD - View Single Post - DVD Forum's secretive "Phoenix Plan" begins to take shape as rival to Blu-ray

Ruined · 07-04-2008, 03:32 PM

There is a ton of info newly added to the official DVD Forum website that indicates another format war is brewing. It appears the code name for the new DVD Forum attempt to rival Blu-ray is the "Phoenix Plan," and the official launch date for the plan began on the date that Toshiba called it quits on HD DVD. Documents proving these statements can be found on the website here, apparently the DVD Forum has re-released the specs for DVD and deemed the new revision "Phoenix Plan":

But I am not sure this plan necessarily involves packaged media! From what it looks like it appears Toshiba & the DVD Forum are going to leverage their upcoming upconverting standalones coming out this fall as not only upconverting DVDs but also being download stations as well as docking stations. Just like Toshiba made licensing fees off of the DVD format, the goal here might be to create a worldwide standard for non-traditional media and make money off the licensing fees for both hardware reference design and software licensing off of that - while at the same time still making money off the original DVD.

To further understand this better, I will outline what I have gathered from the specs combined with some speculation from the links in this thread:

1. The new "format" is now called DVD / HD Video Player in the official DVD specs or DVD/HD for short. The official HD DVD specs have also been updated as of June 2008 to reflect this. The newly updated DVD Forum books for DVD spec are called "Phoenix Plan." It will have both traditional and non-traditional aspects.

2. The traditional (i.e. disc-based) aspect will be 3X DVD. This is a standard dual layer DVD-9 disc with HD video encode on it. Yes, we are essentially talking red laser HD DVD. Note that this does not necessarily entail new packaged media, though it could in the future as any DVD machine could press these discs. The format may simply be used as a recordable format for physical backup of online-purchased media; or, another usage could be for physical purchase (DVD-R) of media rented from blockbuster on USB stick. Also, it will be possible obviously to have combo discs with 3X DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other.

3. The non-traditional aspect will come both via internet and USB stick. Blockbuster is quoted in July 2008 Video Business as reducing physical DVD stock by soon launching an in-store kiosks rental service that wil allow rentals via a "dockable device" such as a USB stick they will sell. Again, think red laser HD DVD player... Remember the two USB ports that were never used? Yep, this is how they could be used in the "Phoenix Plan." Take the movie home on your USB stick, watch it on one of the millions of devices that can play it... Like it? Buy it by burning a copy to DVD-R in 3X DVD format. Then erase your USB stick and go back to Blockbuster for your next movie! Of course, you could also buy copies of movies rented via online services by burning them in a similar fashion in the same 3X DVD format. The DVD Forum appears open to share this aspect of the format with the BDA for additon to Blu-ray Disc players. In addition, the hardware/software reference design could be sold to a company like Blockbuster to manufacture their own DVD/HD player for their kiosk rentals to better compete with the "Netflix box."

4. All XBOX 360 consoles, HD DVD standalones, modern PCs, and the upcoming DVD/HD video players should be able to playback both the traditional and non-traditional formats since no special optical drive is required for the traditional media and no optical drive at all is required for non-traditional media. That gives DVD/HD a massive instant userbase ready to be tapped from the day it launches that surpasses Blu=ray's by the tens of millions. All you need to buy to use DVD/HD is an 8GB USB drive and/or internet connection if you don't already own one, plus a device with the power needed to decode a 8GB HD video stream.

5. Again, the new standalone players for this format will basically be an updated, faster, and better upconverting-quality HD DVD player with a standard red-laser DVD drive. They will use a much cheaper, more conservative version of the Cell CPU found in Playstation 3 and now manufactured exclusively by Toshiba. However, much effort has been put into making the format compatible with aforementioned existing players, not just new standalone players. So this is not a format that will start with 0 players in the wild, but rather a mountain of players found in XBOX 360s, modern PCs & laptops, HD DVD standalones, and of course the new DVD/HD players.

All-in-all, this fall should be very interesting. While Blu-ray may go unrivaled in terms of packaged media, it appears in terms of players Toshiba will be attempting to create a new format that makes current DVD packaged media look HD-quality while creating a bridge to non-traditional media delivered via online & USB stick. Whether it fails or not will depend on whether market forces unite behind this new format; after all, it may deliver a non-traditional format that is sorely needed in this day & age in the face of HD Divx torrents abound. I guess this could be considered "scorched earth" tactics, but not unexpected given the amount of money Toshiba makes off DVD.

Note that this could all turn out to be a bunch of crap as it is informed speculation. And, even if correct it could fail miserably. But based on the money some are investing in Blu-ray I think its worth talking about!

Links used for this summary/speculation:
DVD FLLC - DVD Format Book
http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/pdf/pposhtw.pdf
http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/pdf/HDDVD-V..._Guide_V12.pdf
DVD FLLC - DVD Format Book
First 3X DVD-ROM Disc Cut with DCA Equipment
Is "3X DVD" HD DVD's secret weapon against Blu-ray? - Engadget
X-bit labs - DVD Forum’s Work Group 12 Set to Communicate with Blu-Ray Disc Association.
AVS Forum - View Single Post - DVD Forum Adds DVD/HD Video Player as New Product Category

07-04-2008, 03:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ruined It's Good to Play Together Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ, USA	DVD Forum's secretive DVD/HD "Phoenix Plan" begins to take shape as rival to Blu-ray? There is a ton of info newly added to the official DVD Forum website that indicates another format war is brewing. It appears the code name for the new DVD Forum attempt to rival Blu-ray is the "Phoenix Plan," and the official launch date for the plan began on the date that Toshiba called it quits on HD DVD. Documents proving these statements can be found on the website here, apparently the DVD Forum has re-released the specs for DVD and deemed the new revision "Phoenix Plan": But I am not sure this plan necessarily involves packaged media! From what it looks like it appears Toshiba & the DVD Forum are going to leverage their upcoming upconverting standalones coming out this fall as not only upconverting DVDs but also being download stations as well as docking stations. Just like Toshiba made licensing fees off of the DVD format, the goal here might be to create a worldwide standard for non-traditional media and make money off the licensing fees for both hardware reference design and software licensing off of that - while at the same time still making money off the original DVD. To further understand this better, I will outline what I have gathered from the specs combined with some speculation from the links in this thread: 1. The new "format" is now called DVD / HD Video Player in the official DVD specs or DVD/HD for short. The official HD DVD specs have also been updated as of June 2008 to reflect this. The newly updated DVD Forum books for DVD spec are called "Phoenix Plan." It will have both traditional and non-traditional aspects. 2. The traditional (i.e. disc-based) aspect will be 3X DVD. This is a standard dual layer DVD-9 disc with HD video encode on it. Yes, we are essentially talking red laser HD DVD. Note that this does not necessarily entail new packaged media, though it could in the future as any DVD machine could press these discs. The format may simply be used as a recordable format for physical backup of online-purchased media; or, another usage could be for physical purchase (DVD-R) of media rented from blockbuster on USB stick. Also, it will be possible obviously to have combo discs with 3X DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. 3. The non-traditional aspect will come both via internet and USB stick. Blockbuster is quoted in July 2008 Video Business as reducing physical DVD stock by soon launching an in-store kiosks rental service that wil allow rentals via a "dockable device" such as a USB stick they will sell. Again, think red laser HD DVD player... Remember the two USB ports that were never used? Yep, this is how they could be used in the "Phoenix Plan." Take the movie home on your USB stick, watch it on one of the millions of devices that can play it... Like it? Buy it by burning a copy to DVD-R in 3X DVD format. Then erase your USB stick and go back to Blockbuster for your next movie! Of course, you could also buy copies of movies rented via online services by burning them in a similar fashion in the same 3X DVD format. The DVD Forum appears open to share this aspect of the format with the BDA for additon to Blu-ray Disc players. In addition, the hardware/software reference design could be sold to a company like Blockbuster to manufacture their own DVD/HD player for their kiosk rentals to better compete with the "Netflix box." 4. All XBOX 360 consoles, HD DVD standalones, modern PCs, and the upcoming DVD/HD video players should be able to playback both the traditional and non-traditional formats since no special optical drive is required for the traditional media and no optical drive at all is required for non-traditional media. That gives DVD/HD a massive instant userbase ready to be tapped from the day it launches that surpasses Blu=ray's by the tens of millions. All you need to buy to use DVD/HD is an 8GB USB drive and/or internet connection if you don't already own one, plus a device with the power needed to decode a 8GB HD video stream. 5. Again, the new standalone players for this format will basically be an updated, faster, and better upconverting-quality HD DVD player with a standard red-laser DVD drive. They will use a much cheaper, more conservative version of the Cell CPU found in Playstation 3 and now manufactured exclusively by Toshiba. However, much effort has been put into making the format compatible with aforementioned existing players, not just new standalone players. So this is not a format that will start with 0 players in the wild, but rather a mountain of players found in XBOX 360s, modern PCs & laptops, HD DVD standalones, and of course the new DVD/HD players. All-in-all, this fall should be very interesting. While Blu-ray may go unrivaled in terms of packaged media, it appears in terms of players Toshiba will be attempting to create a new format that makes current DVD packaged media look HD-quality while creating a bridge to non-traditional media delivered via online & USB stick. Whether it fails or not will depend on whether market forces unite behind this new format; after all, it may deliver a non-traditional format that is sorely needed in this day & age in the face of HD Divx torrents abound. I guess this could be considered "scorched earth" tactics, but not unexpected given the amount of money Toshiba makes off DVD. Note that this could all turn out to be a bunch of crap as it is informed speculation. And, even if correct it could fail miserably. But based on the money some are investing in Blu-ray I think its worth talking about! Links used for this summary/speculation: DVD FLLC - DVD Format Book http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/pdf/pposhtw.pdf http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/pdf/HDDVD-V..._Guide_V12.pdf DVD FLLC - DVD Format Book First 3X DVD-ROM Disc Cut with DCA Equipment Is "3X DVD" HD DVD's secret weapon against Blu-ray? - Engadget X-bit labs - DVD Forum’s Work Group 12 Set to Communicate with Blu-Ray Disc Association. AVS Forum - View Single Post - DVD Forum Adds DVD/HD Video Player as New Product Category __________________ For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light. Last edited by Ruined : 07-04-2008 at 04:27 PM.