Holy Grail of processors

[chlngr1970]

j

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

j

I hear you. For now all I can do is drool, but in around two weeks I'll actually have this beast installed.

I'll let you all know what I think of it's 2 channel performance, multichannel performance, and audio streaming abilities. Stay tuned.



Seth

[Iguana Man]

Bump!

[zepherman]

My dealer says It's on track for a Feb 21st arrival date, let's hope this holds true. I'll keep you all posted.

[zepherman]

Well it looks like a tad bit longer of a wait. Looks like it will now be shipping the second week of March. And man was I hoping I'd have this thing by at least the end of February.

Oh well. At least I know it is coming, it's just a matter of time is all.


Seth

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Well it looks like a tad bit longer of a wait. Looks like it will now be shipping the second week of March. And man was I hoping I'd have this thing by at least the end of February.

Oh well. At least I know it is coming, it's just a matter of time is all.


Seth

You still suck!



Anyway, when my Employee Stock hits in a couple months, I will either finish out my car system, start buying amps, or pick up a VP50 Pro, if I can still get the accommodation from work

j

[zepherman]

Here's what Jeff Talmadge of Denon had to say about the AVP-A1HDCI in an interview with ListenUp this month.

JT: Now, when people look at the images, the AVP and the 5308 share the same chassis. So box size is the same — even weight is the same, almost to the exact tenth of a pound, which is kind of funny, since you're talking about a pre-amp processor/controller versus a receiver. And when we start posting the images of what we've done to the inside the AVP, people will get a sense of what $7,000 in a pre-amp from Denon means. It's been ten years since we had a pre-amp — the old AVP 8000. And it's been requested over and over again.

These models, the 5300 and AVP, share nothing, except for the box. When you talk about internals, a pre-amp having dual toroidal power transformers, I don't know of any. Plus, the AVP has six other power supplies. So audio and everything else is separate. Twelve channels, again, but they're XLRs as well as RCAs. You're talking quad DACs.

LU: For all the channels?

JT: For all the channels.

LU: And it's balanced circuitry?

JT: Balanced circuitry. It even has balanced analog inputs for our friends that still have outboard DACs that want to do that kind of stuff. But the AVP really takes us to another level. I mean, using all the expertise of digital and analog technology, the 5308 does share some, but you take it to a new level with quad PCM 1796 DACs per 12 channels. Dual differential. You get a differential volume control. You get differential A to D. It's just beyond whatever else is out there for the price. I mean, honestly, from a competitor standpoint, we've had a lot of customers use 4000- and 5000-level receivers as a preamp because there's really nothing even in the pre-amp world that can compete with them. So now we've decided, hey, we're going to have that preamp market. We had sort of let that go. Now we're getting back into it.

And, although many of your customers will use a 5300, that's great, too. Also, with the 5300 and AVP, one of the key things that I know a lot of your customers are looking at is the video side of it, because both of them will feature the silicon optics Realta chipset for A to D, taking analog sources up to HDMI, up to 1080p scaling, with the best noise reduction circuitry. And, they'll get color controls and things like that. But, with both of them, we'll even take a 1080p source. So, if you come from a Blu-Ray or an HD DVD player, the customer can go in and add noise reduction circuitry for that signal. There is no one else that does that.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

You still suck!



Anyway, when my Employee Stock hits in a couple months, I will either finish out my car system, start buying amps, or pick up a VP50 Pro, if I can still get the accommodation from work

j

Thanks.

Wow, that will be pretty awesome, no matter what you plan to do! And VP50 Pro, you're talking about a DVDO iScan right? That thing would be freakin' amazing in your setup. With 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs, THX certification, and all the video adjustments one could ask for, it looks like one hell of a unit!


Seth

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Thanks.

Wow, that will be pretty awesome, no matter what you plan to do! And VP50 Pro, you're talking about a DVDO iScan right? That thing would be freakin' amazing in your setup. With 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs, THX certification, and all the video adjustments one could ask for, it looks like one hell of a unit!


Seth

yup. I figure no matter what I feed my display, with the VP50 Pro, it should look pretty damn good. If I am lucky, I might be able to do a couple things, like the car system, and the VP50 Pro...

here's to hoping

j

[zepherman]

Well I "might" be getting my Denon pre/pro this coming week. According to Denon's Jeff Talmadge, The pre/pro and amp are shipping to dealers today. So if mine happens to be one from this first shipment, then I will have it next week. If not then I will have to wait till mid March. I'll keep you all posted.



Seth

[zepherman]

Just found out from my dealer that my AVP is on its way!!! It will be available for me to pick up this week!! I can't wait!

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Just found out from my dealer that my AVP is on its way!!! It will be available for me to pick up this week!! I can't wait!

I'll drive you there. We can have tacos on the way. Once you pick it up and load it into my trunk we will drive back to your place. And on the way back, if I ask you to get out and buy me a pack of smokes, don't worry. I'll be sure to park within eyesight.

Buddy Pal Friend!

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I'll drive you there. We can have tacos on the way. Once you pick it up and load it into my trunk we will drive back to your place. And on the way back, if I ask you to get out and buy me a pack of smokes, don't worry. I'll be sure to park within eyesight.

Buddy Pal Friend!

[zepherman]

My AVP has arrived!!!!! It's at the dealer and I will be picking it up tomorrow (Thursday), but I may not have a chance to hook it up until Friday sometime. I will be sure to give my initial impressions either Friday or Saturday. Stay tuned.



Seth

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by zepherman

My AVP has arrived!!!!! It's at the dealer and I will be picking it up tomorrow (Thursday), but I may not have a chance to hook it up until Friday sometime. I will be sure to give my initial impressions either April, or May. Stay tuned.



Seth

Fixed.

Congrats, hope you like it as much as I would.

j

[EM3]

Don't give yourself a hernia.

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by EM3

Don't give yourself a hernia.

Dude...it's just the AVP, not the amps...

j

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

Fixed.

Congrats, hope you like it as much as I would.

j

HA ha! You know you may not be too far off that target. With everything that this thing is capable of, it's gonna' take me a while to learn even some of this stuff, let alone everything. But I know it's gonna' be fun.

Thank you. Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna' like it a whole lot.

And.... I went ahead and did something else that maybe I shouldn't of, but I just couldn't help myself. Along with the Denon preamp, I also got a Denon Blu-ray Transport. Yes I know I said that I would wait and buy a Panasonic BD50 which is profile 2.0, but my dealer gave me a great deal that was hard to pass up. And the more I thought about it, the only things that really matter to me is a killer picture and the ability to bitstream DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD. BD-Live and things like PIP are not important to me.

I know that the Denon BT2500 has the known LFE issue on LPCM, but that's not a problem at all for me. I already own a Sony BDP-S300, and it has no issues with bitstreaming LPCM, so for BD movies with LPCM I'll use the Sony and for everything else I'll use the Denon. Problem solved. Now at some point in the future if Denon offers a firmware update to correct the LPCM LFE issue, then I'll use the Denon for all BD's. But for now I think I've got my bases covered.

I plan to have both the AVP and the transport up and running by Saturday, so expect an in depth review over the weekend. I have to say that the build quality on both the AVP and the Blu-ray transport is very very impressive. These things are built like tanks! The transport weighs in at 21 lbs and the AVP is 60 lbs! These suckers are heavy.


Seth

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by EM3

Don't give yourself a hernia.

Thanks, I'll try not to.

[zepherman]

Here's some quick photos I took of the AVP and BT2500.

[Taxi]

Nice.

[Wirehed]

Awesome.

Wow, we know the processor is huge, but wow, the size of the transport is impressive.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

Awesome.

Wow, we know the processor is huge, but wow, the size of the transport is impressive.

Originally Posted by Taxi

Nice.

Thanks guys Yes both the processor and the transport are big.

[Iguana Man]

Man! What is the combined weight of those two? What the hell kinda A/V stand is going to support them?

When your done using the forklift to place them wherever that may be, post a pic!

F-ing A dude!

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Man! What is the combined weight of those two? What the hell kinda A/V stand is going to support them?

When your done using the forklift to place them wherever that may be, post a pic!

F-ing A dude!

Thanks Iggy.

Well it's a good thing the AV racks I own are rated to support 250 lbs on all the shelves. The combined weight is 81 lbs.

Yes I will definitely post some pix once it's all set up.



Seth

[EM3]

Damn I really need to win the lottery. I'm impressed and jealous! Congrats on the bundle of joy.

[PunkMunkey]

Good lord! That is some impressive equipment...you sir are a very fortunate individual. EnjoY!

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by EM3

Damn I really need to win the lottery. I'm impressed and jealous! Congrats on the bundle of joy.

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

Good lord! That is some impressive equipment...you sir are a very fortunate individual. EnjoY!

Thanks.

[zepherman]

Well first off, damn I had forgotten just how much freakin' work it is to have to disconnect everything, re-run the wires, cables etc., and change out gear. I got "some" of it done yesterday, but still have a long way to go. But at least I did get the most important things installed, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and BT2500 are now up and running! While not going to fiddle around with the Audyssey MultEQ quite yet, I did get it set up all around using an SPL meter.

Well now for the million dollar question, does it live up to my expectations? Guys, this thing far exceeded them! My Sunfire TGIII was an amazing performer, but this thing is in a whole other level. The sound quality is phenomenal! It was really late last night before I got a chance to do some serious listening, so I only got to listen to various Blu-ray movies. But after listening to what TrueHD and DTS-HD MA sound like on this thing, I am now spoiled for life!

The sound from the soundtracks encoded with these new audio formats offers a quality I have not ever experienced in my setup. All channels (5.1, 6.1, 7.1) were so clean sounding, the LFE so powerful, and directional effects so active, that it was like an audio veil was lifted. And the sound was very non-fatiguing, with not a hint of edginess or brightness, just a smooth yet very dynamic and wonderfully rich soundfield. To say that I am impressed is an understatement! This pre/pro kicks major ass!

I did try out uncompressed PCM on a few Blu-ray's and did find a drop in the LFE, the difference while noticeable wasn't extreme. The bass was still very prominent, but just missed that extra punch of DTS-MA and TrueHD. So yes I agree that the BT2500 has the LFE issue on uncompressed PCM. So for the time being I will connect my Sony S300 for playing back only the BD's with uncompressed PCM. All other BD's will be played on the BT2500.

But damn does the PQ look amazing going through the AVP using Realta. I am still learning about all the various settings that the Realta processing has, so if it looks this good now I can only imagine how stunning it's going to look after I use more of the Realta's adjustments. But to also have the transport match the looks of the pre/pro is just way cool.

I am going to finish connecting all the rest of the AV gear today, and will post back with my thoughts on 2 channel, and streamed FLAC and WMA Lossless. Also will try to post some pix of the AVP/BT2500 installed. Now it's time to get back to it and get everything else connected. Just wanted to share my initial first impressions with you guys.

.....stay tuned.



Seth

[SilentBob]

Is it ok for grown men to cry at your equipment.


Ah who cares *sniff* I just hate/love you at the same time for being able to enjoy your High Def movies the way you do. You trully are a dedicated Audioholic

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by SilentBob

Is it ok for grown men to cry at your equipment.


Ah who cares *sniff* I just hate/love you at the same time for being able to enjoy your High Def movies the way you do. You trully are a dedicated Audioholic

Thanks And here's a kleenex or two for ya!

[zepherman]

Here's a few pix of the AVP installed.

[EM3]

[zepherman]

While I still need to get the network streaming thing done, and connect my SACD/DVD-A player, I have had a chance to listen to 2 channel music. The sound quality of this thing easily matches what I had been enjoying on my Sunfire TGIII. The soundfield is dynamic, full, and very neutral. So as a 2 channel music pre-amp this thing is wonderful. And this is only a couple of days after install, I can only imagine how amazing it's going to sound after a month or two of use.

So far the AVP has worked flawlessly with everything I've tried. Now if the AVP's EXT IN. D/A conversion sounds as good as I'm thinking it will (It's also dual differential), it will be pretty awesome. This thing kicks some serious ass!



Seth

[Ruined]

Here is a question. Many of the Reon/Realta implementations when sent 1080p24 output 1080p60. What does the Denon do with 1080p24 w/ Realta enabled?

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Here is a question. Many of the Reon/Realta implementations when sent 1080p24 output 1080p60. What does the Denon do with 1080p24 w/ Realta enabled?

That's a very good question. I looked through the owners manual and it only mentions 1080p (no 60 or 24). I would say that it most likely is 1080/60 and not 1080/24. I might inquire with Denon about this and see what they say.

For me it's no biggie as my TV does not support 1080p/24, only 1080p/60. But for people that do own sets with that cabability, having a pre/pro that will pass the signal would be great news.


Seth

[zepherman]

Well now that I've actually been using my AVP-A1HDCI for about two weeks, I can now give my impressions of it's sound quality.

The thing with this pre/pro, and any other pre/pro for that matter, is that it needs time to sound its best. Straight out of the box with only 2 or 3 days will not give an accurate description of what this engineering marvel can offer. While I will honestly say that I was impressed with what I heard the first time I fired it up, now after two weeks the sound is getting even better. And I'm sure that after two to three months of use, this Denon pre/pro will fully reveal its sonic splendor.

Home Theater use (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, Uncompressed PCM, DTS, Dolby Digital)

First I must say that each and every HDMI device (Blu-ray, HD DVD, Satellite), work perfect all the time. Video and audio goes through without a hitch. Kudo's to Denon for this. 1080p signals go through in all their glory, high def that goes in the Denon AVP goes out to the TV crystal clear. And standard DVD's going through the Realta processing makes standard DVD's look the absolute best they can look. The Reon chip in my Toshiba XA2 is really good, but Realta takes it up a notch. The video processing in the Denon AVP works extremely well for DVD's.

Bitstreamed audio via HDMI from Blu-ray, HD DVD, and DVD, all sound phenomenal decoded by the Denon AVP. I usually watch at least one movie a night, and on weekends two a night, so over the past 14 days I've seen at least 17 movies through the Denon AVP. With 12 on high def, and the rest on DVD. One thing I must note is that not all players sound the same when bitstreamed. I carefully compared my Sony S300 to my Denon 2500 using uncompressed PCM. Just so you know, I adjusted the sub level up +5db when listening to the Denon 2500 to compensate for the LFE bug, and then lowered the sub level -5db when listening to the Sony S300.

The thing that was apparent was the soundstage, the Denon is a bit smoother and not as forward in character as the Sony is. With certain movies (War, 3:10 to Yuma), the sound while very dynamic was a bit too forward for my taste. The Denon on the other hand was smoother, but still had all the impact and dynamics of the Sony. So I say not all players are created equal when sending out a bitstreamed uncompressed signal. I also had the opportunity to compare internal decoding done by the player (Toshiba HD-XA2), and done by the pre/pro (Denon).

While many claim "there is no difference", I totally disagree. I listened to a number of HD DVD's that have Dolby TrueHD soundtracks, and each and every time I much preferred the decoding done by the Denon. The sound character with internal decoding on the player gave a brighter sound that when listened to for long periods can be a bit fatiguing. The same movies via HDMI and decoded by the Denon sounded superb! Not bright, but open, detailed and rich. The sound is wide and deep, very dynamic, but never fatiguing. It's exactly what lossless should sound like! I have been extremely impressed with what this Denon pre/pro does with DTS-HD MA (Night at the Museum, Rush Hour 3, Hitman, etc), and TrueHD (Spider-Man 3, Bourne Ultimatum, V for Vendetta etc.).

Even the legacy Dolby Digital and DTS formats sound amazing on the Denon AVP. I rent a lot of standard DVD's from Netflix, and each and every movie I've played through the Denon has sounded excellent! While the new high def audio codecs take the sound to a whole other level, plain DD and DTS still sound very impressive. And easily as good as I remember hearing from my Sunfire TGIII. That says a lot as my Sunfire did a fantastic job with DD and DTS soundtracks. So rest assured that the Denon AVP does a splendid job with legacy audio formats.

So IMHO this pre/pro definitely delivers the sonic goods!


Music sources (CD, SACD, DVD-A)

I have extensively listened to a number of 2 channel and mulichannel sources. I have my CD player connected to my Denon AVP via analog, and have listened to the Denon in "Stereo", "Direct", and "Pure Direct" modes. SQ in stereo is quite good, and pretty spacious (width and depth of sound is moderate). The sound is forward in character with "Stereo" mode, and to my ears could get tiring after long listening sessions. SQ in "Direct" mode takes CD music to another level. The difference between Stereo and Direct is huge. The sound character in Direct mode is very refined and very accurate, but much more pleasing to the ears, and is more neutral in its presentation. I really enjoyed listening to CD's in Direct mode.

Listening to "Pure Direct" mode took the accuracy a step further, and makes even the most intricate of sounds come to life. With Pure Direct there is no coloration to the sound at all. What is on the CD (good and bad) is exactly what you will hear. On perfectly mastered reference recordings the use of Pure Direct is an audiophiles dream come true. But beware when listening to material that is a bit too brash and bright in nature, as these things will faithfully come through. So for "most" of my listening I preferred Direct as it brought a good balance in sound, offering great sound quality to most CD's. Stereo mode is great for casual listening, but Direct and Pure Direct are definitely for true audio enthusiasts who want accurate sound.

For people who have subs, I highly recommend using them for 2 channel, even if the speakers are of the large full range variety. The use of the subs just takes the whole music listening experience further. So for me setting Main+Sub was a no brainer. And the ability to set the Denons crossover frequency to the setting you prefer is a major plus. The 70Hz setting sounded the best for my setup.

Now to see what the Denon's internal DAC's would do for 2 channel music, I used the Denon Transport via HDMI and listened to the same CD's (Yello-Zebra, John Mayall and Friends, and Johannes Linstead-Cafe' Tropical). I'm happy to say that the Denon easily matched and even slightly surpassed my dedicated CD player (Sony CDP-XA20ES). This really impressed me, as my Sony has always bested anything I've compared it to in my setup (Integra Research RDC-7, Sunfire TGIII). So this says a lot about the DAC's and dual differential circuitry in the Denon. I sure wish I owned the Sony CDP-XA7ES (the XA20's big brother), as that has balanced outs and I could report as to how it sounds connected that way. Maybe I'll find one for a good price and try it out. For both analog 2 channel and digital 2 channel the Denon AVP delivered in spades. It's an excellent 2 channel pre.

A couple of days ago I finally got to try out multichannel SACD. Since my old Yamaha DVD-S2300 universal player only has analog outs for high rez sound, I connected 6 cables to the Denon's EXT IN. For years I have been using an Outlaw ICBM-1 bass manager for my Yamaha S2300, as the player has no internal bass management. While the Outlaw "works" it's a bit cumbersome to use. Since all discs are recorded at different levels, I always had to physically go to the ICBM-1 and either raise or lower the bass volume. Sure once set for a certain SACD it was fine, but once I changed SACD's I then had to dial in the right bass level.

So when I learned that the Denon AVP offered A/D conversion on its EXT IN. I was very anxious to try it out and see how the bass management in the Denon would work for my SACD's/DVD-A's. After I connected it I listened to the SACD of Peter White "Glow", and was totally blown away with the sound! The bass was 'THERE", it was deep, tight, and not boomy. But when listening , the bass was only part of the story, the whole presentation was the best I have heard in my setup, ever! The whole multi-channel audio landscape was wide, deep, dynamic, and rich with detail. I was hearing things that I had previously never heard before. And the sound oh the rich sound was smooth and very easy on the ears. DVD-Audio was just as impressive, when I put in Esteban-Enter the Heart, the same sonics and smoothness I experienced from SACD I also experienced from DVD-Audio. I had previously never been too impressed with SACD's/DVD-A, as the sound was just too sterile and digital sounding.

SACD and DVD-A sound through the EXT IN. using the Denon's A/D conversion offers a wonderful sonic experience. If I had to describe the sound I would say that it was almost like listening to tubes. 6 channels of nice warm, silky smooth sound. The sound produced was very intoxicating. I am so impressed with the sound that I am now interested in SACD/DVD-A once again, and will be buying many more SACD's/DVD-A's very soon. So for any of you who own older SACD/DVD-A players that only have analog outs and were curious as to what this Denon could do for your player, rest assured it's awesome! A++++ on the Denon's A/D conversion on the EXT IN.

In conclusion, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI has to be the most fully featured preamp/processor on the planet right now. And while it's learning curve is quite long, and many (myself included) will no doubt get a bit frustrated with setting up this beast of a pre/pro and figuring out all it's many functions, features and settings. Once it's finally setup,calibrated, and adjusted, the sonic attributes of this gem will ultimately win you over. I have to say that Denon has raised the bar very high with it's new preamp. From lossless high def movie soundtracks to 2 channel music to multichannel SACD, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI does all of them effortlessly and gracefully. The Denon is expensive, but well worth the price of admission.



Seth

[chlngr1970]

Very nice review, there. Thanks for that. Now I will go cry in the corner till I can afford to get one

On another note, I would love to see a shootout between the Integra piece and this one...

j

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

Very nice review, there. Thanks for that. Now I will go cry in the corner till I can afford to get one

On another note, I would love to see a shootout between the Integra piece and this one...

j

Thanks.

Yes, a shootout between the Denon and Integra would be great! I wouldn't be surprised if we do see a pro review in the coming months that compares the two.

[Wirehed]

Yeah, but the DTC-9.8 is $1600, which is a HUGE difference compared to the Denon at $7000.

Or are we talking about a different Integra?





Thanks for the great review zepherman, you lucky bastard.