Holy Grail of processors

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

Yeah, but the DTC-9.8 is $1600, which is a HUGE difference compared to the Denon at $7000.

Or are we talking about a different Integra?

Two processors, $5400 difference. Can one tell audibly them apart blindfolded? Would be a good test

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Two processors, $5400 difference. Can one tell audibly them apart blindfolded? Would be a good test

BINGO! This is what I am talking about. I would love to see if there is $5400 difference in audio...

j

[Taxi]

$5400 means different things to different people.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

Thanks for the great review zepherman, you lucky bastard.

Thanks.

[zepherman]

I finally got to try out the music streaming abilities. And I'm happy to report that it works great!! Sound quality is superb! I am using Windows Media Player 11, and it's integration to the Denon AVP was seamless. You go into network setup on the Denon and find out what the info is for your preamp (MAC Address, etc), and configure your router to accept the address. Then open up Windows Media Player 11, click the Library tab, then click in media sharing and turn sharing to on.

After this the Windows Media Player automatically recognizes the Denon and adds a Denon icon in it's sharing window. It then asks to allow or deny access, select allow and that's it! You're done!

WMA Player 11 will allow streaming of WMA Lossless, flac (with special download software), and .WAV. I have been comparing the sound quality on both flac and WMA Lossless and have found them both to sound virtually identical, which is to say they both sound excellent!. Just for kicks I compared flac and WMA Lossless to .WAV, and while flac and WMA Lossless sound amazing, the .WAV did edge them out just a bit. The sound with .WAV was a bit more detailed, and offered a deeper and a tad wider soundstage. It was also a bit smoother, especially in the upper midrange. I did all my comparisons using Direct mode.

In comparing flac, WMA Lossless, and .WAV to the original CD, I found .WAV to sound nearly identical. Flac and WMA Lossless were both tied and came in a close second to .WAV. But for most listening I believe that either WMA Lossless or flac will do a splendid job. So for most of my music I will use WMA Lossless, and for my reference CD's I'll use WAV.

I have found the sound quality to be so good that it may just replace my CD player for critical listening. I am very impressed.

For my listening tests I used the following albums:

Peter White- Confidential
Strunz & Farah- Stringweave
Johannes Linstead- Cafe' Tropical
Michael Buble'- It's Time
John Mayall and Friends- Along for the Ride

Another thing that really impressed me about streaming music, is that if a certain CD was HDCD encoded, that encoding is also in the ripped version. So when that music is streamed, the Denon decodes it automatically (a small HDCD logo shows up in the Denon's display window) and gives an even higher quality of sound. This is excellent as I own quite a few HDCD encoded CD's that I have ripped to my PC.

Also with the Denon, using Windows Media Player 11 on a PC, all cover art, album title, artist info, track listing, track time etc., is displayed on your TV. All album info is also displayed on the Denon's display window (except cover art). When using WMA Lossless and .WAV through Windows Media Player 11, all album info is automatically tagged. And through the Denon's GUI one can select artist, album, genres, and playlists.

So now I can totally say that the Denon AVP-A1HDCI more than lives up to it claims. It's one heck of an amazing performer for all things. Movie soundtracks, 2 channel music, multichannel music, streamed music, DVD upsampling using HQV Realta. And to top it all off, it is highly configurable to to satisfy the needs of pretty much anyone. I can't recommend this preamp highly enough. As you can tell I'm loving it!


Seth

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Just for kicks I compared flac and WMA Lossless to .WAV, and while flac and WMA Lossless sound amazing, the .WAV did edge them out just a bit. The sound with .WAV was a bit more detailed, and offered a deeper and a tad wider soundstage. It was also a bit smoother, especially in the upper midrange. I did all my comparisons using Direct mode.

flac and WMA lossless are mathematically identical to WAV, they basically "ZIP" the WAV then the decoder "UNZIPs" it with absolutely zero difference in any portion of the waveform. Any difference you heard must have been a placebo effect, as the final decoded waveform is exactly the same for all three.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

flac and WMA lossless are mathematically identical to WAV, they basically "ZIP" the WAV then the decoder "UNZIPs" it with absolutely zero difference in any portion of the waveform. Any difference you heard must have been a placebo effect, as the final decoded waveform is exactly the same for all three.

While this is theoretically true, any differences in compression and error recovery that are selected in the program (Exact Audio Copy etc.), could play a part in the way the flac file sounds. I am going to fiddle with the settings on EAC and find out if it does make a difference. But since I have more than enough room on my hard drive I have no problem using .WAV for my reference stuff.


Seth

[EM3]

Glad you are happy and enjoying your new purchase. Keep us updated!

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by EM3

Glad you are happy and enjoying your new purchase. Keep us updated!

Thanks!

[zepherman]

A guy who bought a Denon AVP was bold enough to remove the cover and bottom and took some pix of the inside. What's in there is quite impressive.

[zepherman]

A photo from Denon.

[zepherman]

This is a reprint from a review in Home Cinema Choice Magazine UK.

Denon AVP-A1HD & POA-A1HD | Our Review | TechRadar.com

[Sehnzeleid]

The internal view of the Denon Transport:

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

The internal view of the Denon Transport:

Ooh a nice topless shot! Pretty cool, thanks for sharing that.

[zepherman]

Well I really got to put the Realta Video processing to the test. Got the S-Video cable that I had been waiting for, and connected my Pioneer DLV-919 Laser Disc player. After setting the scalers options and going through the various picture adjustment settings, I did a thorough evaluation.

The LD's I used were Cutthroat Island, Grumpy Old Men, and Eyes of an Angel. All of these have poor or mediocre picture quality and always exhibited a very grainy and dull picture. Through the iScan Ultra the PQ was an improvement, but still not very good. Now for the first time I can actually see myself enjoying these movies on LD. While nothing could make these LD's look as good as what we are now accustomed to seeing with up-converted DVD, they are however, the best I have ever seen them. Color fidelity, a much sharper image, a lot less grain, and better contrast, really breathed new life into these old LD's. Since I own many LD's that have never been released on DVD, HD DVD, let alone Blu-ray, at least I can now once again enjoy them. The Realta scaler/processor really impressed me.



Seth

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Got the S-Video cable that I had been waiting for, and connected my Pioneer DLV-919 Laser Disc player.

You aren't bypassing the player's internal (and outdated) comb filter with S-Video, Composite is what you should be using.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

You aren't bypassing the player's internal (and outdated) comb filter with S-Video, Composite is what you should be using.

Very very interesting, thank you very much for that bit of info. I have to admit that I wasn't aware of this. Well now I need to get a 12 foot composite video cable, and once I do I will do some A/B comparisons between composite and S-Video. But after reading a lengthy article about composite vs. S-Video for LD playback, you are probably correct that composite is indeed the way to go.

[Ruined]

Also for another bit of info, if you want to squeak the most out of the Realta processor in your Denon preamp you should get a Blu-ray player which natively outputs interlaced signals for DVD and interlaced BDs. The Denon 2500 bobs 30fps 1080i material when the player is set to 1080p, resulting in huge loss of detail. So for 30fps Blu-ray material like Nine Inch Nails Beside You in Time, Galapagos, Nature's Journey, and most other documentaries/concerts with the exception of Planet Earth and a few other high budget ones, you should get a player that can natively output 1080i so you can use your Realta to properly deinterlace them. Remember, the only progressive source Blu-ray can display is 1080p/24fps, 1080p30 sources must be encoded as 1080i60 for Blu-ray to be within spec.

And the DVD upconversion of the Denon 2500 is poor, as well, compared to if you used a good DVD player like the Oppo 980H or Toshiba HD-A2 and fed the Denon preamp 480i over HDMI for Realta upconversion... Denon 2500 is not capable of native 480i over HDMI, at best you'll get 480i > crappy 480p deinterlacing > 480i re-interlacing.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Also for another bit of info, if you want to squeak the most out of the Realta processor in your Denon preamp you should get a Blu-ray player which natively outputs interlaced signals for DVD and interlaced BDs. The Denon 2500 bobs 30fps 1080i material when the player is set to 1080p, resulting in huge loss of detail. So for 30fps Blu-ray material like Nine Inch Nails Beside You in Time, Galapagos, Nature's Journey, and most other documentaries/concerts with the exception of Planet Earth and a few other high budget ones, you should get a player that can natively output 1080i so you can use your Realta to properly deinterlace them. Remember, the only progressive source Blu-ray can display is 1080p/24fps, 1080p30 sources must be encoded as 1080i60 for Blu-ray to be within spec.

And the DVD upconversion of the Denon 2500 is poor, as well, compared to if you used a good DVD player like the Oppo 980H or Toshiba HD-A2 and fed the Denon preamp 480i over HDMI for Realta upconversion... Denon 2500 is not capable of native 480i over HDMI, at best you'll get 480i > crappy 480p deinterlacing > 480i re-interlacing.

Thanks Ruined for the advice. But I plan on using my 2500 for some time. It has performed flawlessly and gives me superb PQ and sound (bitstreamed to the Denon AVP) from Blu-ray discs. And yes many have complained about the BD30's up-conversion, but the 2500 IMO does a very good job with DVD's, so I have no complaints. But if I wanted to use a stand alone DVD player and output a 480i signal, my Yamaha DVD S2300 player fits that bill perfectly. I tried this player out doing just that, and it looked amazing going through the Denon's Realta processor. So I'd say I've got my bases covered pretty well.

[zepherman]

Here's the first professional US review of the Denon preamp.

Denon AVP-A1HDCI 12CH Home Theater Processor Review — Audioholics Home Theater Reviews and News

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Here's the first professional US review of the Denon preamp.

Denon AVP-A1HDCI 12CH Home Theater Processor Review — Audioholics Home Theater Reviews and News

We did say somewhere in this thread that you are despised, hated and generally, well....hated?



Have you been able to decipher it's unprecedented set up options yet or should I check back next year?

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

We did say somewhere in this thread that you are despised, hated and generally, well....hated?



Have you been able to decipher it's unprecedented set up options yet or should I check back next year?

Check back next year. Seriously, that's not too far off, as I am still learning new things about it, and will probably continue to do so for a while. It's that loaded! But in a way that what makes it fun also.

[zepherman]

A large feature upgrade will be available for download in October. While not mentioned in this European press sheet, Denon will be making this a free upgrade for AVP owners in the USA. This will be a must have feature for me. Kudos to Denon.

http://www.dm-holdings.com/brandnews...Upgrade_EN.pdf


Seth

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by zepherman

A large feature upgrade will be available for download in October. While not mentioned in this European press sheet, Denon will be making this a free upgrade for AVP owners in the USA. This will be a must have feature for me. Kudos to Denon.

http://www.dm-holdings.com/brandnews...Upgrade_EN.pdf


Seth

I liked Audyssey when I first used it because it does a fantastic job of setting up delay times and speaker levels. However after comparing the EQ of Audyssey on and off, I think my system sounds better with it off - the high end rolloff on the Audyssey makes things sound too muddy. Maybe if I did an Audyssey Pro calibration it would sound better, but the default lowpass is too steep IMO.

As an FYI, the Dynamic EQ feature is actually already a part of the Dolby TrueHD codec and is on by default with most receivers using that codec. However, it will be helpful for DTS & PCM soundtracks that do not have this feature if you live in an apartment and may be listening at low levels.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I liked Audyssey when I first used it because it does a fantastic job of setting up delay times and speaker levels. However after comparing the EQ of Audyssey on and off, I think my system sounds better with it off - the high end rolloff on the Audyssey makes things sound too muddy. Maybe if I did an Audyssey Pro calibration it would sound better, but the default lowpass is too steep IMO.

As an FYI, the Dynamic EQ feature is actually already a part of the Dolby TrueHD codec and is on by default with most receivers using that codec. However, it will be helpful for DTS & PCM soundtracks that do not have this feature if you live in an apartment and may be listening at low levels.

I think results will vary from system to system (speakers, amps, room shape etc.). I tried out Audyssey, and I really like how it made my system sound for movie soundtracks. But I am wanting even more flexibility over the MultEQ XT, so I am seriously considering stepping up and going for the Audyssey Pro kit.

Also Dynamic Volume is excellent for those times one is watching a high def program on Satellite or cable when the program goes into commercial and not having to scramble for the remote to lower the volume. I see this as a major plus.


Seth

[zepherman]

Gene DellaSala over at Audioholics, added the following page to explain the benefits of its balanced design.

AVP-A1HDCI Balanced Transmission Further Explored — Reviews and News from Audioholics

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Also Dynamic Volume is excellent for those times one is watching a high def program on Satellite or cable when the program goes into commercial and not having to scramble for the remote to lower the volume. I see this as a major plus.

That is a good usage but it is a shame that cable companies do not use Dialog Normalization on their programs. It is a feature that has been in standard Dolby Digital from the start and essentially allows the same thing you are looking for here.

Technically something like Audyssey Dynamic Volume is a software algorithm so any Audyssey-capable receiver should be able to handle it (except maybe something like the Onkyo 605 which is DSP-power limited). However, mass-market manufs may attempt to use it as an upsell to get people to upgrade to the new model - and simply not include the feature. Then again, Onkyo has been pretty good about adding features (they added Audyssey Pro to some receivers that were only marketed as standard Audyssey receivers to begin with). I believe Denon also will be upgrading some of their entry level receivers with Audyssey Dyn. Volume.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

That is a good usage but it is a shame that cable companies do not use Dialog Normalization on their programs. It is a feature that has been in standard Dolby Digital from the start and essentially allows the same thing you are looking for here.

Technically something like Audyssey Dynamic Volume is a software algorithm so any Audyssey-capable receiver should be able to handle it (except maybe something like the Onkyo 605 which is DSP-power limited). However, mass-market manufs may attempt to use it as an upsell to get people to upgrade to the new model - and simply not include the feature. Then again, Onkyo has been pretty good about adding features (they added Audyssey Pro to some receivers that were only marketed as standard Audyssey receivers to begin with). I believe Denon also will be upgrading some of their entry level receivers with Audyssey Dyn. Volume.

Yeah cable and satellite are always lagging behind when it comes to stuff like that. But I will soon not have to worry about that with this upgrade.

Dynamic Volume is a very cool feature that I plan on using. And being that it will be a free upgrade, that is just the coolest!

[zepherman]

Here is the first in a series of Techcast interviews held by Gene DellaSala of Audioholics. The following is a lengthy discussion about the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and Denon POA-A1HDCI. But the interview also covers other Denon products in development (including what could very well be the ultimate universal Blu-ray player). An excellent listen.

Podcast interview with Denon's Jeff Talmadge

[zepherman]

Well after waiting since the announcement was made many months back that Audyssey Dynamic Volume would be available this October, the day finally arrived for me to do the update. This update is by far the longest update available for the AVP to date, a whopping 110 minute update!

The first update I did for my AVP took one hour, and the second took 15 minutes. So what all goodies did the engineers at Denon give? In a word LOTS! Besides the new Dynamic Volume feature (which is way cool BTW), they also enhanced the Realta VP to allow 1080p/24, and it's a forced 24Hz.

Also made the AVP Sirius Radio capable. And many many firmware updates to the DSP boards, etc. It is just so convenient to be able to do these updates via its Ethernet connection.

Over the many months that I've had my AVP, it just keeps on impressing me. With the ButtKickers in the new HT seats, I was able to use the AVP's "Transducer" connection option. It worked great! And streamed music for me is as good as it gets! It's been over a month since I actually listened to a physical CD through the system. And I found out that not only will the AVP stream HDCD but also multichannel DTS!

So I have to say that the more I use my AVP the more I'm enjoying it!


Seth