I needs me a new AVR

[Taxi]

However, dropping 14K for this dream team is something I just can't justify to myself right now.

I think Iggy and Pirate make some good comments in that thread about dimishing returns. This is probably especially true for me, as I don't have the B&W 802D's that I intend to eventually hook this Receiver/Separates/Whatever into yet.

But, I do have BRD discs that need to be played, and I want to hear them with the new HD formats such as DTS-HD MA, etc. so I can't really wait too much longer. (The Bladrunner discs are calling to me at night... )

I think my price range is more in the $5K-$7K area, for processor and amps. And i'm liking the idea of separates more and more. I know some of you folks are more read up on this stuff than I am, so what's the buzz on what's best out there right now?

[Ruined]

Integra DTC-9.8 Pre/Pro $1800
http://www.integrahometheater.com/mo...&m=DTC-9.8&p=i
Has no real competition IMO, a very easy choice for a pre/pro. Decodes all nextgen codecs & has builtin Reon HQV video processing.

For 5.1 (IMO all that is really needed):
Parasound Model 5250 5x250 Power Amp $2500
http://parasound.com/nc/5250.php

But if you really want to make a killer 7.1 setup, buy one of these in addition dedicated for your mains which should be the biggest power draw:
Parasound Model 2250 2x250 Power Amp $1200
http://parasound.com/nc/2250.php
Has just a bit more balls than the 5ch amp, so great for big mains. If you are going to do 7.1 you might as well have a dedicated power amp for your mains.

Could also do Parasound Halo A51/A21 for amps but they are high priced and unnecessary IMO. Main gain is balanced inputs. But hey, if you are up for spending up to $7k maybe you want balanced inputs

So, total for 5.1 = $4300, total for 7.1 = $5500... MSRP of course, so it will be a bit cheaper. If you want to spend more, go for the A51/A21 combo instead (about $2k more).

[Taxi]

No, I'm not the kind of guy who has to spend all my budget. 5-7K is the upper boundary, for sure.

Thanks for those suggestions, Ruined. I'll take a look at those and let you know what I think.

Anyone else?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

No, I'm not the kind of guy who has to spend all my budget. 5-7K is the upper boundary, for sure.

Thanks for those suggestions, Ruined. I'll take a look at those and let you know what I think.

No prob. I'd actually suggest trying 5.1 with a nice setup like the DTC-9.8/5250 then adding a 2ch amp for the mains like the 2250 if you think you really need 7.1... Either way those Parasound amps will knock your socks off. I have the old version of the 5ch amp (2205) and its the only piece of gear I haven't upgraded in the past 5 years because it kicks so much ass.

[Sehnzeleid]

Outlaw Model 7500 5X200W Single-ended & Balanced inputs - $1599
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7500.html

Outlaw Model 7200 7x200W Single-ended - $1849
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7200.html

Outlaw Model 7700 7x200W Single-ended & Balanced inputs - $2149
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

Or if you want a killer 7.1 set-up...

Outlaw Model 7900 7X300W Single-ended & Balanced inputs - $3499
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7900.html

Made in America!

[Taxi]

Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that Outlaw is on my short list of brands to check out. I wish they made a pre that did the newer audio formats, but I don't see that they do on their website yet.

[zepherman]

I have to agree with Ruined, the Integra DTC 9.8 is the best bet for a pre/pro in that price range. I did a search and right now there are no other pre/pro's from "any" company that offers a pre/pro with TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding in the $2k - $3k range. All the rest that have TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are (or will be) $7k on up (Denon, Simaudio, Krell etc.).

So for everything that the Integra has in it, it's a whole lotta bang for the buck! Match it up with a quality multi channel amp and you've got a winning combo. For mid line separates, right now Integra has the market cornered.

I know there are many companies that make pre/pro's in your target price range (Rotel, Cambridge, Anthem, Outlaw etc.), but none offer TrueHD and DTS-HD MA.



Seth

[Wirehed]

The Integra looks like a nice place to start, that's baiscally what I'm looking at right now.

[chlngr1970]

B&K is rumored to have the Ref 70, with all the bells and whistles coming soon. In the short run, it might be a good idea to slowly step into separates by buying a good AVR to use as a Pre/Pro, and watching the market for Pre/Pros mature with the new formats. That way, you can get started with the amps you want.

If it's a NOW solution you want, I have to agree that the DTC 9.8 is the best bet, as there is no competition.

j

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that Outlaw is on my short list of brands to check out. I wish they made a pre that did the newer audio formats, but I don't see that they do on their website yet.

They have been working on one that will do it all, but like many other manufacturers, the delays of the newest Cirrus Logic chip is holding them up, but they have said once they get the chipset, the ball will start rolling quickly on their next processor. Most definitely within the year with a formal announcement of the Model 990 replacement probably occurring in March the soonest.

So what's next?

The Outlaws are hard at work creating new world-class products with all the bells and whistles, but the development time line is a long one and some of the critical path items are outside of our control.

For example, as recent as late last month, we learned that the newest version of the Cirrus Logic CS49700, the DSP chip powering these new products, will have an eight-week delay in the production schedule for samples. This cascades to a greater delay in the schedule, since the samples need to be in hand before we can finalize the board layout and freeze the firmware/software. We could use the current version of the DSP chip, but we want to deliver the increased stability and lightning-fast acquisition of the latest "lossey" and "lossless" audio formats transmitted over HDMI.


Similarly, our plans also include new, advanced codecs that are not currently available in any product. Unfortunately, there is also a delay in the delivery of the final microprocessor code for some of these codecs to the chip suppliers. All of us at Outlaw are waiting for final word on how to implement them. The net result is that our new processors will not be scheduled for production until some time late in the first quarter or early in the second quarter of 2008. To bring these processors to market sooner would deprive us of offering you some hot new features and the advanced stability that depends on component-based hardware, not upgradeable software.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Outlaw Model 7500 5X200W Single-ended & Balanced inputs - $1599
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7500.html

Outlaw Model 7200 7x200W Single-ended - $1849
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7200.html

Outlaw Model 7700 7x200W Single-ended & Balanced inputs - $2149
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

Or if you want a killer 7.1 set-up...

Outlaw Model 7900 7X300W Single-ended & Balanced inputs - $3499
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7900.html

Made in America!

But is Balanced input truly necessary/beneficial when most amps (including multi-thousand amps with balanced inputs) have unbalanced internal design? It is actually possible for an amp to sound worse when hooked up via balanced input for this reason. Most consumer electronics are designed around unbalanced signal processing because that is what 99% of people use, the balanced input often becomes more of status symbol than something that provides true sonic gains due to the preamp/amp generally being setup for unbalanced signals internally. The case for balanced inputs/outputs is different for pro gear but none of the amps we are discussing are pro gear.

Also, personally I think the combo of a 2ch amp + 5ch amp is better than that of a 7ch all-in-one. The two main channels are by far the most important and having a seperate amp for them can be quite sonically beneficial (especially if you listen to music). The 2-amp design also gives you more flexibility in the future for upgrades or repairs.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Also, personally I think the combo of a 2ch amp + 5ch amp is better than that of a 7ch all-in-one. The two main channels are by far the most important and having a seperate amp for them can be quite sonically beneficial (especially if you listen to music). The 2-amp design also gives you more flexibility in the future for upgrades or repairs.

Yeah, I've been leaning this way as well. Get a very good 2 channel amp or even dual monoblocks for the mains, and then maybe go with the Outlaw 200W mono amps for the other speakers.

Hmmm.. Sixpacks Iggy?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

dual monoblocks

http://parasound.com/halo/jc1.php

Though if you start factoring in monoblocks I think you are going out of your price range.

Also running all monoblocks starts to get a bit messy in terms of placement and cabling. 2ch + 5ch will probably give you quality near that of monoblocks without needing to have 7 amps strewn about.

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by Ruined

But is Balanced input truly necessary/beneficial when most amps (including multi-thousand amps with balanced inputs) have unbalanced internal design?

Does it matter when the Outlaws that have balanced inputs also have unbalanced inputs as well?

Here's a Model 7200 review, this is the one I own.

[Ruined]

Taxi, you should also check out the Rotel RB-1090 stereo amp. Its 385x2 @ 8ohms, and 700x2 @ 4ohms, both unbalanced and balanced inputs, etc. Its not in production anymore but you can still find brand new at clearance prices like $1500. It will best any other amp mentioned in this thread thus far for main speakers. They stopped making it because it was too large - its 9.5" tall with heatsinks all around... A monster amp!

[Taxi]

I actually think I'm going to hold off on an amp (and just use my current Yamaha 2095 as an amp) until I get better speakers.

My short term goal is to be able to play my BRD movies using the new audio formats, as well as my SD content and SACD/DVD-A discs (which means I'll need to keep my Denon DVD-5900 in the mix), while at the same time moving towards separates rather than integrated components.

I think the Integra DTC-9.8 is the right answer for me, in terms of performance and price. I'm still a bit undecided on a BRD player, but still leaning toward the Denon 2500, LFE issue be damned.

[Taxi]

My Integra 9.8 is at home waiting for me to finish work and set it up.


(If anybody in the Portland area is looking for one, NW with Sony Only at 16th and Glisan has two more in stock. )

[Pirate]

Congrats, Taxi!

[zepherman]

HUGE congrats Taxi!! Looking forward to your thoughts on it once you get a chance to put it through its paces. Enjoy!

[Taxi]

Thanks everyone. I can't wait to get home and start setting it up.

Since I'll be using my 2095 as an amp for a while, it should be pretty easy to do A/B comparisons between the 9.8 and my current setup.

I'll try to document my experiences here for those who are interested.

Of course, the REAL test won't be until I upgrade to new speakers and power amp(s)....

[Ruined]

Taxi, make sure you have v1.4 main firmware on that badboy

[sub780lime]

Yesterday has come and gone. Update?

[Taxi]

I spent most of last night reading the manual, and looking for the HDMI-DVI cable that I bought about a year ago. I didn't find it in "the usual places" so you'll just have to wait.

I also decided that I need a new rack option, as my old one is starting to creak under the added load of these heavy components. I think tonight I'm going to tear it all down, and cosider other options.

(I don't have a BRD player yet anyway, so I'm not in a big rush. My first goal is to just get the HD radio working. )

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Hmmm.. Sixpacks Iggy?

Hehehe...yep..they are sweet and I can't believe I missed this thread. Either way, they are in the north west corner of the house. Just in case your night vision goggles went bonkers.



Congrats on your new purchase!

[Iguana Man]

What speakers are you looking at?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

What speakers are you looking at?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/.../Synchrony-One

I haven't personally heard them yet, but every reviewer has given them fantastic reviews, stating they are as good as and even better than in some cases more expensive speakers in sound quality.

These would work perfectly with any of the above linked Parasound 350-400wpc @ 4ohms power amps.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Ruined

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/.../Synchrony-One

I haven't personally heard them yet, but every reviewer has given them fantastic reviews, stating they are as good as and even better than in some cases more expensive speakers in sound quality.