Not Another 'I Need A New AVR' Thread

[Pirate]

Okay, so that’s exactly what it is. Ha! I am king! Sorry.

Here’s the deal. With the economy-saving check coming my way, I figured it was time to shirk off responsibility and spend that money on a shiny new receiver. But, I’m having trouble deciding on which one. The current contenders are (with Amazon prices):

Onkyo TX-SR805 ($680)
Marantz SR7002 ($1400)
Pioneer Elite VSX 92TXH ($900-ish)

I’ve really enjoyed my current Pioneer receiver, but I’d like to branch out and try new brands. The Onkyo and the Marantz have similar specs (the Onkyo actually has more power and is THX Ultra2, while the Marantz is only THX Select). Some have told me that the reason the Marantz is double the price of the 805 is that Marantz is a higher-caliber company, thus the receiver should sound better.

I won’t lie, having nice equipment is important to me, but, at the same time, I don’t want to pay extra money for a name. I’ve read several reviews of each receiver and they’re all favorable. Unfortunately, I’ve not seen any shootouts or comparisons, and I have no way to demo them without dropping the money for them all.


Here is the current priority list (in order of importance):
• 7.1 sound quality
• Price (under $1000 if possible).
• HDMI switching
• Build quality
• Reasonable power consumption
• Video upcon (I can let my players and projector handle this)


So, what do you think? Should I jump on one of these receivers or perhaps wait for newer models to come out? Help a brotha out.

[PunkMunkey]

No love for the Denons?

Actually...between the three you've listed, I think my personal preference might be the Pioneer...solely because I've had good luck with all of my Pioneer equipment.

I hear good things about Marantz in general and Onkyo seems like a pretty solid brand as well...although I've read that the 805 runs a bit on the warm side if that's any consideration.

Have you tried popping over to the Axiom forums to see what people there think about how they mate with your speakers? Might be worth a shot...they may be able to stter you away from any undesirable combos.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

Have you tried popping over to the Axiom forums to see what people there think about how they mate with your speakers? Might be worth a shot...they may be able to stter you away from any undesirable combos.

I just did and someone mentioned the Denon.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I just did and someone mentioned the Denon.

I'm not surprised as I've heard (a while ago - so take this with a grain of hops) Denon avrs are warm sounding. If true, matching them with Axioms and what I've read as them being a tad bright, well, you get my drift.

I personally would love to hear the new Onkyo line and if I was in your boat, and this is just me, I'd probably get one on faith that all the bang for buck hype is true.

(the lower priced Onkyo would also allow for money saved towards you-know-what. )

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

(the lower priced Onkyo would also allow for money saved towards you-know-what. )

That’s my thinking, but I don’t want to buy a piece of equipment that cut corners in order to be cheap. But no one can really tell me why the Denon or Marantz are better, just that they assume they are. That's not a good enough reason to spend $700 more, in my opinion.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

That’s my thinking, but I don’t want to buy a piece of equipment that cut corners in order to be cheap. But no one can really tell me why the Denon or Marantz are better, just that they assume they are. That's not a good enough reason to spend $700 more, in my opinion.

The Onkyo line does not cut corners to be cheap exactly, they just progressively add features that cost more.

i.e.
buying the 705 over the 605 gets you the same more advanced DSP found in the 805/875/905
buying the 805 over the 705 gets you a beefier and better power supply
buying the 875 over the 805 gets you Reon upconversion instead of the much crappier DCDi found in 805 and below
buying the 905 over the 875 gets you an even more refined power supply

My vote goes to the Onkyo 875, by the way. Its worth the extra cash for the Reon to upconvert & deinterlace not only DVD all your SD & HD interlaced sources. And Amazon has it for just a few bucks over $1000 currently.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Ruined

My vote goes to the Onkyo 875, by the way. Its worth the extra cash for the Reon to upconvert & deinterlace not only DVD all your SD & HD interlaced sources.

Have you seen any reviews of the 875? I'm having trouble finding one. I would like to try the Ultra2 since my theatre is a larger than the Select models are made to handle.

[PunkMunkey]

Originally Posted by Pirate

That’s my thinking, but I don’t want to buy a piece of equipment that cut corners in order to be cheap. But no one can really tell me why the Denon or Marantz are better, just that they assume they are. That's not a good enough reason to spend $700 more, in my opinion.

Well, if you want to hear something reassuring about the Onkyo 805, it weighs in at a beefy 50 lbs. vs the 40 lb. Denon 3808...or the 33lb Marantz.

Which may indicate a better overall build quality with larger capcitors and a larger power supply...or they threw a brick in there just for kicks.

Now that doesn't speak for it's sound quality or processing quality, but it's probably a good indicator that it is a decently built piece of AV gear and will probably hold it's own to the comparably featured Denon or Marantz (at the very least).

If you can spare the time, perhaps run out this weekend and at least check out the units in person...check out the build quality and fit/finish of each unit firsthand...that might sway your opinion one way or another.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

If you can spare the time, perhaps run out this weekend and at least check out the units in person...check out the build quality and fit/finish of each unit firsthand...that might sway your opinion one way or another.

That's the problem; I don't really have anywhere to go. We have a mini-Magnolia and that's about it, besides the normal B&M stores. I've read some great reviews of the 805, so I'm not concerned about that.

Onkyo TX-SR805 AV Receiver Review — Audioholics Home Theater Reviews and News

I'm just wondering why people are paying so much more for gear that seemingly have inferior specs.

[PunkMunkey]

Well, the Magnolia should have the Pioneer Elite and The Denon...if you've got a Circuit City nearby, they might have the Onkyo.

In any case, the Onkyo really does seem like the best bank for the buck...worst case scenario, you have to return it because you don't like the way it meshes with your Axioms (although I don't think that'll be a problem). AFAIK, the Onkyo units sound a lot like the Pioneer Elite stuff...tending toward the neutral.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Pirate

That’s my thinking, but I don’t want to buy a piece of equipment that cut corners in order to be cheap. But no one can really tell me why the Denon or Marantz are better, just that they assume they are. That's not a good enough reason to spend $700 more, in my opinion.

Are you assuming the Onkyo is cheap? Are you assuming the Denon/Marantz aren't? Many of us have to assume at one point if you/we cannot demo the stuff you are interested in. You want someone to tell you 'why' A is better than 'B' and by your own concerns, that is fruitless since it's all personal and probably biased and definitely assumptions (to a degree).

I'm not trying to bust your balls Pirate, honest man. But at some point you have to make a call on what others have said from their potentially biased views if you cannot demo said receivers.

Life is fun, take a chance and buy the damn Onkyo (I too was looking at the 875 Ruined suggested)

(my 'dickness' is not intentional and EDITED: FAWK! I hate posting so late when replies have been made that I haven't seen!)

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Are you assuming the Onkyo is cheap? Are you assuming the Denon/Marantz aren't? [/b])

I'm not assuming anything, others are. I'm just trying to figure out why.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I'm not assuming anything, others are. I'm just trying to figure out why.

But you are wanting someone to tell you why this is better than that. At some point if you cannot have that equipment in your setup to test for yourself, you have to take a chance on said opinions.

I may be reading you wrong dude. If so, sorry.

[Pirate]

I'm looking for real opinions and specs, though. Not just canned responses like "Denon is solid" or Yamaha "makes great receivers." At least on AVS and other such forums, I seem to have a hard time getting an answer beyond this is what I went with and I like it. And that’s fine, but don’t tell me that other brands are bad just because you decided not to buy them. Give me some real world specs/reasons. It’s like people saying that the brand paid THX a shitload of money so that they could slap the logo on their product. Is this really true? Does THX mean nothing? See what I’m saying?

[Pirate]

I think part of my problem is that I don’t really trust most home theatre people. It seems to me that a large number of these "enthusiasts" have some sort of justification disease, wherein they have to justify every purchase by telling others that whatever brands they buy are "the best." Like if I went around pimping Sharp Blu-ray players (even though I know they’re not great) just because I dropped $300+ on mine.

But, you guys are right, I just need to go buy one. Just like with my speakers, I had to get them in my house and see for myself.

[Iguana Man]

There are no high end stores in your area? At the very least you could listen to their high end stuff to determine if the sound difference is worth it from what you have now?

You may find it's all bullshit for your ears and simply say f-ck it and not worry about potential sound quality differences from mid fi avr's.

I went high end and frankly, it's not all it's cracked up to be. IMO.

Hows that for honesty?

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Hows that for honesty?

That's exactly the kind of answers I'm hoping to get. Even if I disagree, at least you're not feeding me a line.

The problem I have with doing demos in-store is that most of the stores in my area (Circuit City, Best Buy, etc) usually have their nice AVR’s hooked up to really shitty speakers. And how can I judge anything with that setup? And I'm pretty sure those stores have a restocking fee.

[chlngr1970]

First of all, you have set yourelf a budget. IMHO that is the biggest factor in deciding on what to buy. You can look for the features you want in your price range. If you are ever considering going to separates, like I am, don't look at amp power. My current, ever evolving plan, is to start adding amps. I was going to do that last month, but got the VP50 Pro instead. So, I pushed my amp aquisition back 6 months.

Here is what I am doing. I'll be using my AVR when I add amps as a controller. Then I'll replace my AVR with a THX Ultra controller later down the road. I'm just waiting for a higher end piece with HDMI Audio. The current crop, besides the Denon ( out of my price range, ) or the Onkyo don't do HDMI audio. I wanted to pick up the new B&K Ref 70, but it isn't slated for HDMI Audio, just video. Now, the new McIntosh will do it, but I can't afford it I imagine there will be some new things coming up at CEDIA.

One thing I would like to see, is a piece from Denon between the 4308, and the 5308. Theold 48XX series would be perfect for MY application. Adding amps, two channels at a time, makes separates within my reach.

In closing, you know what you like. You know what you can afford. You know how soon you have to have it. Pioneer Elite, Denon, Marantz, and even Onkyo/Integra all have a good reputation. unfortunately, only you can say if you are going to be happy with your purchase. Opinions can help if you trust the source.

j

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Have you seen any reviews of the 875? I'm having trouble finding one. I would like to try the Ultra2 since my theatre is a larger than the Select models are made to handle.

The Onkyo line is all pretty similar. The 705-905 all share the same DSP while the 605 has a less powerful one, the 605-805 have DCDi, while the 875-905 have Reon.

The main differences besides that is that the power supply/shielding/circuitry setup gets better as you move up the scale. So if you like the way the 805 sounds, you'll like the 875 too - but you'll get much better video processing on the 875 that may save you from buying a super-expensive external scaler or expensive BD player with a vp chip.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Pirate

That's exactly the kind of answers I'm hoping to get. Even if I disagree, at least you're not feeding me a line.

I should clarify this. When I say I went high end, I meant tube amps for 2 channel stereo. While I at first said OMG! FRAZEL WAZEL YAY, in reality to me now, it's not all that. I know I got the speakers to make these amps shine but the transport is another issue and that's just another upgrade meaning more $$$.

I'll make a 2 channel system some day, but sometimes 2K in what can be a big upgrade is still dependent on more bucks spent elsewhere and for me, right now...blah blah blah.

(I love how my slow ass typing makes me loose my damn train of thought!)

"I gotta get outta this place! I'll go running, in outer space...oh yeah"

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Ruined

but you'll get much better video processing on the 875 that may save you from buying a super-expensive external scaler or expensive BD player with a vp chip.

I read--can't remember where--that the Reon in the 875 changes the white/black levels.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I read--can't remember where--that the Reon in the 875 changes the white/black levels.

I'm going to give you a brief history of firmware updates, as they have fixed most of the issues users have complained about since release.

The Reon black level issue was fixed with main firmware version 1.04.

The current main firmware is version 1.07, which corrected the A/V lag issues some had problems with.

Also, DSP1 update 7601A fixed the DD+/TrueHD signal lock issues.

And, the current DSP1 update 8214A update corrected the DTS "bitstream bomb" problem.


So all major issues people have complained about have basically been fixed. You can find the latest firmwares here:
AVS Forum - View Single Post - The Onkyo/Integra direct firmware updates

[Pirate]

Has anyone seen any comparisons or shootouts between a VRS Anchor Bay chip and the Reon in the 875? I ask because if I got the Onkyo 805 (without Reon), I might possibly get the new Oppo that has the AB chip.

[PunkMunkey]

I think I'd go for the 875 if I were in your shoes...more wattage and a proven scaler. I'm sure the OPPO is probably awesome, but it's also $400...cut that expense and put more towards your sub .

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

I think I'd go for the 875 if I were in your shoes...more wattage and a proven scaler. I'm sure the OPPO is probably awesome, but it's also $400...cut that expense and put more towards your sub .

That's actually what I'm trying to do with the 805.