New Receiver - Help With settings please

[cherno]

I am getting my new Onkyo 606 in a few days. I currently have a 575 and am upgrading because the current receiver only has HDMI passthrough and doesn't support DTS MA and DD-HD. I am going to be hooking it up to my PS3, replacing the toslink with the single HDMI from the PS3 to the receiver and want to know which settings to put on the PS3.

I am confused about all the Uncompressed, PCM, LPCM AND Bitstreaming.

Can anyone help clarify?

[SilentBob]

Well the PS3 doesn't bistream any of the new audio codecs but sends them out PCM. So really the only thing you have to do is set your PS3 audio to all of the audio setting it offers. When you watch a movie on the PS3 you select your audio track of choice and the system will decode the audio internally and then send it out PCM to you receiver. Doesn't matter if the track is PCM, DTS-HDMA or TrueHD as the system does the work for you befoe sending it to your new receiver. Pretty straight forward stuff

[cherno]

Well I'm confused then. Right now I have my system set to output via optical digital (using toslink)

When I go to the BD/DVD settings I see the following entries:
Dynamic Range - Set to Automatic
BD/DVD Audio Output (HDMI) - LPCM. Bitstream is also an option in that menu
BD/DVD Audio Output (Optical Digital) - Bitstream. LPCM is also an option.

So are you saying that once I hook up the new receiver then switch to Bitstream for the HDMI option (which I assume is preferred over LPCM???) that it will not actually stream it but still do some sort of conversion?

[Ruined]

You have to set HDMI to PCM. PS3 decodes the formats internally and outputs them PCM.

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by cherno

Well I'm confused then.

And now, so am I

When I go to the BD/DVD settings I see the following entries:
Dynamic Range - Set to Automatic
BD/DVD Audio Output (HDMI) - LPCM. Bitstream is also an option in that menu
BD/DVD Audio Output (Optical Digital) - Bitstream. LPCM is also an option.

This last bit mans that you get 2 channel PCM...that is all the bandwitch of PCM over Optical/Coax digital has. Funny thing is, DPL is two channel. Left channel has left front, and center. Right channel has Right front, and surround ( I may be dislexic and have that backwords ) so, you could have surround via 2 channel LPCM.

So are you saying that once I hook up the new receiver then switch to Bitstream for the HDMI option (which I assume is preferred over LPCM???) that it will not actually stream it but still do some sort of conversion?

This is where I am confused Acording to you, the PS3 offers HDMI out of LPCM, or Bitstream. Yet, Ruined says that the PS3 does NOT bitstream.

Originally Posted by Ruined

You have to set HDMI to PCM. PS3 decodes the formats internally and outputs them PCM.

I don't have a PS3, and really have no interest in it ( But I think the GF kids want one )but it seems like, according to Cherno, that the PS3 does bitstream...

j

[PunkMunkey]

PS3 definitely does NOT bitstream the new advanced audio codecs. It will decode them internally and pass them as LPCM over HDMI.

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

PS3 definitely does NOT bitstream the new advanced audio codecs. It will decode them internally and pass them as LPCM over HDMI.

What about older codecs? I wonder if that is what it means to bitstream...

j

[chlngr1970]

So, this means this.

You set your PS3 to LPCM over HDMI, and have the PS3 do your decoding, you then feed the 5/6/7.1 decoded PCM signal to your AVR, and your AVRs decoders remain unused. No big deal...

j

[cherno]

Ok I think that makes sense. So let me ask this then, if the PS3 can't do bitstream over hdmi then why is the option there?

Also if I believed that the PCM on the PS3 was inferior to that of the AVR's processor is it possible to put bitstream on the PS3 and employ the AVR processor (this is assuming that chlngr's last post is spot on and that the process even works in this manner)

Am I right in believing that bitstream is preferred over PCM? I am not familiar enough with the terms and reading the wiki on PCM didn't help clear it up for me. I am assuming that bitstreaming "streams" "bit" for bit the source whereas PCM employs some sort of conversion or compression? I know the L in LPCM stands for Linear but apart from that I don't get the difference between PCM and LPCM.

Sorry to be so dense, but I just want to make sure I am setting everything up and taking advantage of the equipment that I have. I hate feeling like a noob.

[chlngr1970]

Well, to put it simply, Bitstream is desirable if the decoders in your AVR are better than those of the player, much in the same way that analog audio is prefered if the D/A converters in your player are better than the D/A converters in your AVR. I doubt that the current decders in the PS3 are any better, or worse than the decoders in the current gen AVRs. In the future, that could change. By then,players will probably come down a LOT in price, and it will probably bitstream the codecs.

j

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by cherno

Ok I think that makes sense. So let me ask this then, if the PS3 can't do bitstream over hdmi then why is the option there?

The reason for my confusion above.

Also if I believed that the PCM on the PS3 was inferior to that of the AVR's processor is it possible to put bitstream on the PS3 and employ the AVR processor (this is assuming that chlngr's last post is spot on and that the process even works in this manner)

See my post above.

Am I right in believing that bitstream is preferred over PCM?

Not necessarily. Bitstream is the packeting of the encoded audio signal, in either DD, dts,DD THD, or dts HDMA. Those packets are sent "bitstream" over to the AVR to be decoded by the AVRs decoders. The decoders in the PS3 move that step to the player.

I am not familiar enough with the terms and reading the wiki on PCM didn't help clear it up for me. I am assuming that bitstreaming "streams" "bit" for bit the source whereas PCM employs some sort of conversion or compression? I know the L in LPCM stands for Linear but apart from that I don't get the difference between PCM and LPCM.

You have that backwards. Liner Pulse Code Modulation is when the digita signal is sent over "bit for bit" where as bitstream is the packets sent over. Does that make more sence?

Sorry to be so dense, but I just want to make sure I am setting everything up and taking advantage of the equipment that I have. I hate feeling like a noob.

You have to ask questions to learn, and knowing that makes you want to learn. IMHO, that is better than running without the information, and making stupid mistakes.

j

[cherno]

Thanks, I think I have all the answers to fell good getting it set up. Once that's done I can experiment around a bit and play with some of the settings some more.

Now to just sell off the old receiver

[PunkMunkey]

The PS3 will bitstream the old audio codecs via HDMI.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

The PS3 will bitstream the old audio codecs via HDMI.

Yes, this is why the option is there.

The PS3 is hardware limited by its HDMI chip and cannot transmit nextgen codecs via HDMI bitstream.

[cherno]

W00t! Got the new receiver in and hooked up tonight and basking in the 7.1 goodness! I do sort of miss being able to see on the OSD of the receiver which codec is being played since all it says now is PCM Multichannel, but if I hit the display button on the PS3 it shows me on the TV so I guess that is cool, just need to get used to something new.

I don't remember the 5.1 being so weak on my old receiver or maybe 7.1 TrueHD is just that good that it makes the 5.1 wimpy (Rambo BD) I was really impressed by the difference.

Ok, fresh new set of questions!

1. Which is better a) 5.1 PCM Uncompressed or b)5.1 DD TrueHD ?
I switched back and forth between them and couldn't really tell much of a difference.

2. One thing I did notice is that with either of these options set (5th Element BD) is that I got 0 sound out of my back surrounds. Only from the 5.1 speakers. But when I play standard TV I hear audio from the full 7.1 I need to check but I am pretty sure that I heard sound from the back surrounds when I had 5.1 selected on other titles, but I'll have to double check. Am I going to be doomed to true 7.1 on BDs only when the codec indicates it?



Thanks for all the great help so far. I think I am about to cross the finish line

[SilentBob]

Originally Posted by cherno

1. Which is better a) 5.1 PCM Uncompressed or b)5.1 DD TrueHD ?
I switched back and forth between them and couldn't really tell much of a difference.

Not really although elite audiophiles claim they can. They are basically one of the same thing. Part of the reason why Sony Blu-rays went from using the PCM tracks to the now standard TrueHD

2. One thing I did notice is that with either of these options set (5th Element BD) is that I got 0 sound out of my back surrounds. Only from the 5.1 speakers. But when I play standard TV I hear audio from the full 7.1 I need to check but I am pretty sure that I heard sound from the back surrounds when I had 5.1 selected on other titles, but I'll have to double check. Am I going to be doomed to true 7.1 on BDs only when the codec indicates it?

Sadly for the high end audio tracks we are stuck with the setting the disc offers. The next receiver model up offers us the matrix ability to add the back surround speakers. The 7.1 from tv is all thanks to the PL IIx or and other encodings offered.



Oh if you want a nice treat for the surrounds i highly highly highly recommend Live Free or Die Hard. Probably the most realistic track i have heard yet