"Batman" - 04/13/03 - 04/19/03

[Morticia]

This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of "Batman".

The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.)

We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion.

Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum.

****SPOILER WARNING**** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers.

[aintnosin]

This movie was a real mixed bag for me. Before this came out, I was reading Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, which was a really compelling take on the Batman story. I don't think Tim Burton pulled it off. His gothic sensability doesn't really mesh with the comic book subject matter. There's not much of the dynamic action you'd expect. Bruce Wayne/Batman never seems like the athlete you see in the comics.

Michael Keaton was a daring casting choice but not really a successful one, either. I don't think he does the "stoic man of few words" very well. Either Val Kilmer or George Clooney were better for the role, but they were saddled with terrible scripts and Joel Schumacher.

On the other hand, Jack Nicholson as the Joker does make this worth the price of admission, much like Danny DeVito and Michelle Pfeiffer did for the second film.

Michael Gough is Alfred and Danny Elfman's score is fantastic.

[Prancer]

I love Tim Burton's work but I agree with your point about this film not holding up aintnosin. I still don't understand why they cast Michale Keaton for the role. He was brilliant as Beetlejuiece though. So far for me, George Clooney was the perfect Batman.

Jack was great in it, as stated already by aintnosin. I didn't care for Kim Basinger even though she screamed very well.

There were some fun things in the film and the visuals were beautiful. The scene in the museum with Jack dancing was good and of course the memorable line: "Wait til they get a load of me!"

I remember I was excited about seeing it and was very disappointed afterwards.

Batman Returns was good but I wished they had cast someone else for the lead of Batman.

[Mr. Furious]

I never felt that Val Kilmer or George Clooney were very good choices as Batman - and it had nothing to do with the script. They never seemed to have the dark, brooding qualities I always associated with Batman (60's series aside). They seemed a little too happy-go-lucky. They never struck me as a character that really had a dark inner side dealing with the emotional loss of his parents.

I think the casting choice of Michael Keaton may not have always worked, but I think he pulled off a better "Batman" overall. You're right - he didn't seem to have the athleticism of some of the later choices, but he did have some of the multi-dimensional qualities unique to Batman. Maybe it was the mood of the first film, but Keaton seemed more deeply troubled, and genuinely like the dark knight. Keaton played a more subdued (comparatively) Batman who was the product of his past.

I enjoyed the score – but unfortunately I’m starting to get Danny Elfman’ed out. All of his movie themes are starting to sound alike… Maybe it is the “John Williams effect” in effect.

Finally - who could forget the Joker? Jack did a great job, making the Joker a believable (and arguably) and the most disturbing character in the Batman series.

[MiddleEarthGirl]

The soundtrack was killer for the time period and Batman forever had a great baddie in Jim Carrey

[3DMan]

It's funny how when you watch more comic-book movies you slowly get changed into accepting new norms. When I saw Daredevil, I thought it was going pretty good, but then when Bullseye and Daredevil fought in the church I was reminded of the church fight at the end of Batman, and how much better and moodier it was. I hadn't seen Batman in so long I forgot how good it was and how much the dark atmosphere permeated.

[SephirothClone]

I'm sure you guys know how much I love Batman. The poster below is VERY rare, and I feel really proud having it hang over my bed. I've been reading Batman for years now, and I felt that the first movie is still the best comic film ever.

[SephirothClone]

Batman Returns - Christmas Teaser Poster

[LemJe]

I know I will probably get some heat for this but the thing that always bothered me about Batman was the architecture of Gotham. I thought they went a little to over the top for the city. I remeber reading something about Burton wanting it to look like a bunch of twisted architects had helped plan the city. I personally thought it was a little to much and would have perferred a more contempary landscape. But hey that's just me.
I also thought that though Jack was great as the Joker he just didn't look right visualy. Anytime I think of the Joker I always see a lanky tall guy and Jack just aint that.
Anyway these are just my thoughts on the movie

[slade]

LemJe: I agree that the architecture of Gotham was a bit over the top, but it worked for me, because 1) everything in the movie was a bit over the top, which makes since because, 2) it's based on a comic book.

Batman remains one of my favorite comic book movies (granted, this is coming from someone who has read about 5 comics in his entire life).

I love the dark feel to the entire picture. While Keaton wasn't perfect, I thought he did a good job of being a brooding character who was disturbed by his past (as mentioned by others above).

Jack Nicholson was fabulous as the Joker. And, I liked Jack Palance as well, even though his part was small.

All the characters, in fact, from William Hootkins as Eckhardt to Pat Hingle as Commissioner Gordon were very believable to me. And, to echo aintnosin, "Michael Gough is Alfred". It's Burton's character treatments in both Batman and Batman Returns that make these intriguing movies for me.

Add to that the dark surreal setting of Gotham and the mythos of Batman himself and both of these films are winners for me (Batman moreso than Returns).

[tqpix]

The original Batman is my favorite movie in the series. This one actually had a plot compared to the sequels--I blame that to having two villains instead of only one. In the original, you see Batman fighting crime, but you also see Bruce Wayne as he goes about his daily life and creates a love interest in Vicky Vale.

Gotham City is dark and mysterious (I love dark movies); I like it!

My only complaint: The Joker is a bit puffy. I'm used to seeing a thin Joker; a thin Joker is more scary than a puffy one.

[ed wood]

I've seen it well over 100times and i still enjoy it, i agree that the fact it only has one villan helps enourmously (that plus the lack of a robin, and a screamingly gay director).

Thought Nicholson was exceptional and Keaton was great, my only gripe being when he was put in the suit the lack of physical presence counted against him.

[gozer]

love the movie. it was entertaining as hell.

my one problem was with jack.

he was great. fun and energetic. but i didn't buy him as the joker. i think hammil did a better job in TAS, more menacing, sadistic and crazy. jack's was a great character, but he wasn't the joker.

i would love for them to do 'the killing joke' as a film.

[phpotato]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

I think the casting choice of Michael Keaton may not have always worked, but I think he pulled off a better "Batman" overall.

Michael Keaton has played many roles where he's basically a lunatic or mentally insane. In the first Batman, there is the feeling that Batman/Bruce Wayne is mentally unstable. It's a running theme...