Goddess' Pick: Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast (CC) - 05/11/03 - 05/17/03

Morticia · 05-08-2003, 11:31 PM

This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of Jean Cocteau's "Beauty and the Beast (CC)".

The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.)

We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion.

Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum.

****SPOILER WARNING**** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers.

watch for future discussions hosted by Special Guests!

Morticia · 05-12-2003, 04:19 AM

To sort of 'kick' this one off, I'd like to ask a perhaps obvious question:

How do you think the score influences/augments this particular film?

Prospero · 05-12-2003, 02:09 PM

I might be alone in this, but I much prefer the Glass opera to the original Auric score: the Glass music seems to be more faithful to the tone of the Beaumont source material, whereas Auric's music seems rather unremarkable to me, with interpretations that sometimes come out of left field. (See the scene in what must be near the end of chapter 5 or beginning of chapter 6 on the disc, when Belle's father is leaving the Beast's castle: Auric's sudden crescendos don't make any sense to me there.)

Glass also has an excellent use of leitmotifs (recurring bits of music that are attached to specific characters, themes, etc.) My favorite part for this is the overture, where he carefully lays out all the major musical themes and has them slowly segue into one another. There's also that nice synth-marimba loop that appears whenever a character is exploring the castle (there are three major variations that I remember: the first when Belle's father enters; the second when Belle herself enters; and the third when Ludovico and Avenant break in to the Beast's treasure-house near the end). It's the same melody, but the arrangement, tempo, etc., perfectly capture the mood of what's going on.

kimfair · 05-12-2003, 08:38 PM

While I have yet to see the film with the Philip Glass score, I do agree with Prospero, that the original score is unremarkable. It's not that it's bad, it just doesn't move you the way a more powerful score should. That being said, it is still one of my favorite all time films.

I love the lyrical, true fairy tale feel that Cocteau creates. I remember seeing it on TV when I was quite young, and being mesmerized by the moving arms holding the candles, and pouring the fathers wine. I also love the way the mantlepiece faces release smoke from their noses, and Belles mystical glide down the hallway. It is tribute to Marais performance of the Beast that you wish he never turned back into the prince. I realize that's what Cocteau intended, yet I didn't feel as strongly about the Disney beast turning back, though Disney obviously knew a good thing when they saw it since they so liberally borrowed from it for the animated version.

C Roberts · 01-27-2004, 07:19 PM

I haven't listened to the whole Glass score, but I did sample it a little. I prefer the Auric music and original dialog myself. The movie is already very operatic in many ways so I really didn't see a need to make it an opera. Plus Glass' opera was meant to be played live with the movie showing in the background. I'd love to see it that way. Hearing it on the disc it feels forced and out of place because the movie is what's prevelant, not the orchestra. Seeing a live orchestra play it would be a different experience I'd imagine.

05-08-2003, 11:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
Morticia Administrator Emeritus Film Class Goddess Part-Time PRN Princess Panty Thief Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Devil's Point. Burn baby burn!	Goddess' Pick: Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast (CC) This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of Jean Cocteau's "Beauty and the Beast (CC)". The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.) We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion. Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum. **SPOILER WARNING** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers. watch for future discussions hosted by Special Guests! __________________ Nope, you really haven't lived until you've fed a naked Fire Dancer a S'more...cooked from her own flaming baton. I reject your reality and substitute my own! "Freeze dried moles. Price as marked." -- Nixon, Suicide Girl Last edited by Morticia : 05-12-2003 at 04:15 AM.

05-12-2003, 04:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
Morticia Administrator Emeritus Film Class Goddess Part-Time PRN Princess Panty Thief Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Devil's Point. Burn baby burn!	To sort of 'kick' this one off, I'd like to ask a perhaps obvious question: How do you think the score influences/augments this particular film? __________________ Nope, you really haven't lived until you've fed a naked Fire Dancer a S'more...cooked from her own flaming baton. I reject your reality and substitute my own! "Freeze dried moles. Price as marked." -- Nixon, Suicide Girl

05-12-2003, 02:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Prospero Actor Join Date: Mar 2001	I might be alone in this, but I much prefer the Glass opera to the original Auric score: the Glass music seems to be more faithful to the tone of the Beaumont source material, whereas Auric's music seems rather unremarkable to me, with interpretations that sometimes come out of left field. (See the scene in what must be near the end of chapter 5 or beginning of chapter 6 on the disc, when Belle's father is leaving the Beast's castle: Auric's sudden crescendos don't make any sense to me there.) Glass also has an excellent use of leitmotifs (recurring bits of music that are attached to specific characters, themes, etc.) My favorite part for this is the overture, where he carefully lays out all the major musical themes and has them slowly segue into one another. There's also that nice synth-marimba loop that appears whenever a character is exploring the castle (there are three major variations that I remember: the first when Belle's father enters; the second when Belle herself enters; and the third when Ludovico and Avenant break in to the Beast's treasure-house near the end). It's the same melody, but the arrangement, tempo, etc., perfectly capture the mood of what's going on. __________________ "US will commodify your discontent, sell it back to you on DVD." --Bruce Sterling

05-12-2003, 08:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
kimfair No World Series Ring Since... Last night! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Boston,MA USA	While I have yet to see the film with the Philip Glass score, I do agree with Prospero, that the original score is unremarkable. It's not that it's bad, it just doesn't move you the way a more powerful score should. That being said, it is still one of my favorite all time films. I love the lyrical, true fairy tale feel that Cocteau creates. I remember seeing it on TV when I was quite young, and being mesmerized by the moving arms holding the candles, and pouring the fathers wine. I also love the way the mantlepiece faces release smoke from their noses, and Belles mystical glide down the hallway. It is tribute to Marais performance of the Beast that you wish he never turned back into the prince. I realize that's what Cocteau intended, yet I didn't feel as strongly about the Disney beast turning back, though Disney obviously knew a good thing when they saw it since they so liberally borrowed from it for the animated version. __________________ Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy. -Ambrose Bierce Kimfair's CD List

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01-27-2004, 07:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
C Roberts Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Multiple Account Ban	I haven't listened to the whole Glass score, but I did sample it a little. I prefer the Auric music and original dialog myself. The movie is already very operatic in many ways so I really didn't see a need to make it an opera. Plus Glass' opera was meant to be played live with the movie showing in the background. I'd love to see it that way. Hearing it on the disc it feels forced and out of place because the movie is what's prevelant, not the orchestra. Seeing a live orchestra play it would be a different experience I'd imagine.