kimfair's pick -- "Brazil" - 05/18/03 - 05/24/03

[Morticia]

This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of "Brazil".

The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.)

We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion.

Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum.

****SPOILER WARNING**** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers.

thanks to kimfair for agreeing to participate in this discussion!

[kimfair]

I picked this film to discuss as I think that's it's themes and execution of thoses themes and ideas are perfectly done.

One thing I love is the ducts. Gilliam has said that he was inspired by the ducts by seeing these 17th century buildings in Europe that had ducts and pipes shoved through them, ruining the aesthetic of their beauty for all the modern conveniences. I have had people tell me that the ducts and so forth are silly, yet they always seem surprised to realize that every floor and most walls have some sort of conduit running through them. They know that they're there, yet they forget them. Gilliams duct work is mereely taking things to the next level.

I also love how the opening tracking shot establishes the society, it's (and OUR) obsession with paper, and it's general chaotic tone.

What is it about this film that makes it special for you?

[The Mobius]

For me, Brazil is about the contrast between dreams and reality.

The real world in Brazil is drab, tedious, chaotic, and senseless, with a government running amok with so much control that the meaning of life has become pointless - everything is being monitored, and nearly everyone we meet is doing the monitoring.

The dream world in Brazil is bright, exciting, and fairly simplistically driven by love, with nothing else mattering.

The contrast between these two worlds is what makes the film special for me - it represents both the worst and best of life, with a character yearning for better things, as most people are. It inspires the viewer to have dreams; to look around oneself and realise what could be changed in your environment to make things better.
And then, finally, it shocks us with unconventionality - sure, all that's really nice to dream about, but is it really possible to attain? Not in this film. Maybe not in this world.

In addition to all that, the film comes in a kickass boxset!

[kimfair]

Originally posted by martycoster
The contrast between these two worlds is what makes the film special for me - it represents both the worst and best of life, with a character yearning for better things, as most people are. It inspires the viewer to have dreams; to look around oneself and realise what could be changed in your environment to make things better.
And then, finally, it shocks us with unconventionality - sure, all that's really nice to dream about, but is it really possible to attain? Not in this film. Maybe not in this world.

Great point! I also love the fact that the film doesn't have the pat happy Hollywood ending. I , for one, have never understood why films need to end on an up note. Life often doesn't (if you want to get REALLY pessimistic - it NEVER does).

I also love the fantasy vs reality in the film, but it makes me sad. Sam's fantasies are of trying to attain Jill, only to be thwarted by the giant buildings, and armies of faceless, nameless beaurocrats, or even Mr. Kurtzmann, as a stone monolith, holding Sam back, back in his job, back in his life. The reality is that Sam has this endaring love for Jill in his dreams, but until he sees her, he thinks that's the only place she lives. Jill isn't like the passive, floating girl in his dreams, needing saving. Both Sam and Jill are truly desperate characters, trying very hard to limit their own attachment to other humans in the world. Sam has repeatedly turned down promotions, preferring to be a mere cog in the machine. He keeps his distance from humanity, and his mothers attempts to advance his career and love life.

Jill has a job that keeps her alone. She drives a truck, obviously is not in a relationship of any kind, and though she knows her neighbors the Buttles, one can sense she is a loner. It takes her a very long time to accept Sam in her life.

I also feel that Michael Palin's performance of Jack Lint is often overlooked. His relaxed, proper, respectable man, who just happens to be a state torturer presents the perfect dichotomy. Love the man, hate what he does. Tom Stoppard wrote him as a real prick, but Gilliam insisted (rightly so), that he be a man you could like, and respect, as long as you didn't think about his job. His scene with Gilliam's daughter (as Lint's daughter), illustrates this perfectly.

[MrTony]

I watched this movie again Saturday, and the ducts really stood out at me for the first time. I was wondering to myself why they were so prominent, but I think Kimfair summed it up pretty well in his first post.

I think the idea of Jill as a sort of "fantasy woman" for Sam is reinforced by the fact that she's the only character that doesn't speak with a British or European accent. On the commentary for the movie Rushmore, Wes Anderson (or possibly Owen Wilson, I don't remember) talks about how Ms. Cross' British accent sets her apart from everyone else and makes her seem even more unreal to Max and Mr. Blume. I think Jill's American accent does this for her in the eyes of Sam.

The song "Brazil" is, to me, probably the most important motif in the movie. It's playing in the background during most of the dream sequences, and Sam switches to it on his car radio when the news of the latest terrorist bombing comes across. The song comes to represent his fantasy world, and I think suggests the meaning of the film's title - "Brazil" is a state of mind.

On a purely superficial note, I love the overall visual concept of the movie. It successfully creates a world that makes sense, but doesn't exist in any particular time or place.

[MEJHarrison]

Originally posted by kimfair
[b]

Great point! I also love the fact that the film doesn't have the pat happy Hollywood ending. I , for one, have never understood why films need to end on an up note. Life often doesn't (if you want to get REALLY pessimistic - it NEVER does).

I'm one of the few people who actually think the film does have a happy ending. At least from Sam's perspective. He's managed to escape to his paradise, even if it's only in his own mind.

My favorite part of the movie is all the little details in the background. I really get a kick out of all the posters and signs everywhere. I like how the Ministry of Information is stamped on everything in Kurtzmann's office. All the little details that add so much to the movie, but aren't shoved right in your face. It takes many viewings to pickup all the small details. For me that really helps to create a more believable world and makes it feel less like a movie set. In fact I think the world of Brazil feels more 'alien' than any sci-fi movie. It's so familiar, yet at the same time it feels all twisted around.

Anyway, for those who aren't aware of it, here's an awesome site for Brazil.

[kimfair]

Originally posted by MEJHarrison
[b]I'm one of the few people who actually think the film does have a happy ending. At least from Sam's perspective. He's managed to escape to his paradise, even if it's only in his own mind.

Another excellent point! I haven't ever looked at it that way, but it is certainly a valid view. It IS in stark contrast to the "happy " ending that the love conquers all version tacks on, that feels just so false. Actually that whole version is just so awful, worth watching only for what editing can do, turn a brilliant piece of work into a horrid piece of offal. Thanks for the Brazil link, I'll be sure to check it out!

[MEJHarrison]

Originally posted by kimfair
Actually that whole version is just so awful, worth watching only for what editing can do, turn a brilliant piece of work into a horrid piece of offal.

As I recall, there was actually one scene I enjoyed from the Love Conquers All version. It's where Sam, Jack and Jack's daughter are in his office. It was a completely different take from what's found in the "good" version of the movie and I enjoyed it simply because it completey different footage. Like a deleted scene. And that version also has the "My God, it works!" line. I'm not sure if I'm happy with that line being cut out or not, but at least it's there.

As far as the bad version goes, I would never watch it again unless it was to view the scene I mentioned, but I was mesmerized by how lot's of little changes (and a few major ones) completely changed the film. And the commentary was very enlightening. It's hard to believe how easy it was to change Sam's personality by snipping a little here and a little there. They made him much more confident and assertive.

[MrTony]

I started to watch the "Love Conquers All" version on Sunday, but I needed a nap very badly, so I turned it off. I got about 20 minutes in, and noticed they went to great lengths to make everything clearer for a more mainstream audience. Examples include the voice-over of the computer reading off the list of charges against Harry Tuttle while the tech guy chases the fly - also the edited-in footage of Sam's dream sequence when he first sees Jill's face on the monitors, in order to make it clear that she is the woman in Sam's dreams.

I'll try to watch it again soon, but I have a lot of films piled up I need to watch, between Netflix and new purchases.

[kimfair]

I've only watched the love conquers all version twice (once to see what they did to it, and once to listen to the commentary). I'll have to go back and watch it again, to see what MEJHarrison speaks of. As a side note, I would also recommend the excellent book The Battle for Brazil, to anyone who doesn't have it, as well as Losing THe Light, another excellent book on Gilliam's Munchausen fiasco.

To continue the conversation, what small role in the film is your favorite? By small role, I am obviously not talking about Sam, Jill, Mr. Kurtzmann, or Jack Lint. I have two, Jim Broadbent as Dr. Jaffee, and the young woman (name) who plays Mrs. Terrain's daughter. I love her "Salt?" line at the luncheon prior to the terrorist bomb going off.

Also, do you think that there are actually terrorists against the government in Brazil, or do you feel that the government is planting these attacks to keep a cowed populace in check? Discuss!

[bennygk]

Originally posted by kimfair
Also, do you think that there are actually terrorists against the government in Brazil, or do you feel that the government is planting these attacks to keep a cowed populace in check? Discuss!

Neither. I think the government believes there are terrorists (and there may have been at some point) and wants to combat them, but because of the massive bureaucracy, one agency/office doesn't know what the other is doing, so they end up unwittingly chasing each other around, assuming that counter-terrorist activities are really terrorist ones.

[kimfair]

Originally posted by bennygk
Neither. I think the government believes there are terrorists (and there may have been at some point) and wants to combat them, but because of the massive bureaucracy, one agency/office doesn't know what the other is doing, so they end up unwittingly chasing each other around, assuming that counter-terrorist activities are really terrorist ones.

Very interesting take on this! I always thought (being the pessimist I am) that the government did know what it was doing in using terrorist bombs to keep the populace worried, and take away their freedoms.

Next question... Do the changes in the director's cut enhance the film for you or not? I personally love the director's cut, as I feel that most of the film mirrors the original US cut, with the addition of the Santa scene at the end, which adds much to the torturer scenes for me. Discuss!

[bennygk]

Could you go over what the differences between the US and director's cuts are? I have the Criterion, and I don't remember any big differences between it and the version I rented on VHS years ago. Is the Universal disc the regular US version?

[kimfair]

The main difference is that there is a 11 or 12 minute scene with a character in a Santa suit, advising Sam to confess quickly so as not to ruin his credit rating. This scene IS on the Criterion (and the bare bones Universal), but was NOT in the original US cut. There are several other lines, and scenes in the directors cut, that were culled from other versions (European cut, love conquers all version), but I don't feel that they are big enough changes to warrant any discussion.

The FAQ section in the website that MEJHarrison posted above has a very detailed discussion of the differences between the versions. It is in the "How many versions of the film are there?" FAQ.

[MrTony]

Originally posted by kimfair
Also, do you think that there are actually terrorists against the government in Brazil, or do you feel that the government is planting these attacks to keep a cowed populace in check?

In Brazil, it seems like there is an oppressive government because there is terrorism, and there is terrorism because there is an oppressive government. One sustains the other and vice versa. And never once is there any mention of who these terrorists are and what they are trying to achieve. So I suppose there is a very real possibility that they are planted by the government.

One of my favorite little bits in the film that I feel like mentioning is when the kids are playing Information Retrieval in the streets when Sam goes to drop off the check to Buttle's widow. They leave the poor kid with the sack over his head! Funny, and a little scary.

[bennygk]

More thoughts on the government in Brazil:

For the most part, there really aren't any traditional bad guys in the movie. The two technicians from Central Services are complete pricks, but they don't possess the clout to be true arch-villains. The government may engage in oppressive behavior, but the people behind the oppression (Jack and Helpmann, for instance) are mild-mannered, likeable men, hardly capable of engineering such a cruel system. And for the most part, despite teeming with confidence in its own performance, we get to see the government as being very fallible, its daily processes carried out by small men like Kurtzmann, Lime, and the fly-swatter at the beginning. When you look at all these men, it's difficult to figure out who would have a real motive to perpetuate such an oppressive system. That's why I have a hard time seeing the terrorism as having been intentionally planted by the government. I think my original suggestion (government is chasing its own tail) and MrTony's are both good ones, and can even work together nicely. And everytime someone like Sam, Jill or Tuttle stumbles along, the government sees it as confirmation of that which it already believed to be true.

[kimfair]

These government theories are very interesting, and illustrate just why I think that this is a great film. It provokes discussion, creates ideas and theories in its viewers, and leaves as many questions unanswered as it answers. I sort of agree with bennygk that the goverment MAY be just chasing its tail, and hasn't the capacity to promote, or pull off these terrorist acts itself. However, since there always seems to be someone higher up to pass the buck to, Mr. Helpmann (one of the most ironic character names ever) is probably NOT the top of the mountain, and there may yet be some other higher up orchestrating these terrorist attacks.

I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I was a little apprehensive doing this guest Film Class thing when Morticia first asked me, as I see many threads in this section with only 3 or 4 replies. I'm happy this thread has been as sucessful as it has, and please continue to post in it, if you see fit!

[Morticia]

Agreed.

Thank you very much kimfair, for taking on this successful discussion!

The rest of you -- keep watching for regular guest appearances by fellow File members and their favorite movies. And, this does not mean you can't throw in your .02 just cause it's past the week of discussion date!!