"Spirited Away" - April DVD of the Month

[Morticia]

SilentBob had an idea...to take the winners of the DVD of the Month (from Software) and discuss them here. Why not give that a try? Here goes....

This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of "Spirited Away", the winner of April DVD of the Month.

The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.)

We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion.

Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum.

****SPOILER WARNING**** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers.

I’ve seen Spirited Away and Mononoke three times each and have viewed Kiki and Castle in the Sky once each. Hayao Miyazaki is a great director and animator. He instills small yet wonderfully animated details into every scene of every movie, especially Spirited Away. For instance the way the first soot-ball pauses for a second, THEN he purposefully drops the ore upon himself. The way Chihiro taps her feet into her shoes, or descends the stairs by trying to crawl down them one step at a time. The eye movements are eerily emotive and sometimes comical. For instance, at the beginning of the movie when the family exits the car and Chihiro’s parents tell her to stay behind since she is afraid to enter the temple. Chihiro moves only her eyes, looks at the statue, and makes an expression that perfectly express her insecurity and she runs to her parents.

Not only is Spirited Away original, it doesn’t even have a derivative good vs. evil motif. I was shocked that Yubaba and Haku never fought or battled, as surely they would have in a Disney production. Instead the protagonist and antagonist have differences that must be worked out. No-face has an appetite problem and is not a true monster. Disney has included a great insert for the DVD. Miyazaki gives a great analysis for the film. Unfortunately I don’t have the DVD with me so I can’t quote from it right now.

I have one question. The women who work at the bathhouse, they are human right? Yet how did they get permission to work there, since humans don’t seam to be tolerated by the spirits?

[NotaNumber]

In the spirit world, nothing is as it seems. Haku appeared to be human, yet wasn't. And the "stink" spirit was much more than it appeared to be. Even "Noh-face" was not as innocent as it appeared...

And maybe if they were human, they just signed a contract with Yubaba as Chihiro did. Apparantly that's all the permission that is needed.

[SilentBob]

Well i saw this opening night with 17 other people. We all took a 45 minute Go Train ride into Toronto to see the movie at the Paramount. It was pretty impressive to see the response to the movie. The theater it think held 500+ people and it was packed. But it was cool to be all sitting there watching it.


Now onto the movie. . . .

I will have to admit after 2 viewings i find the first 30 minutes pretty slow and boring. I know it was too set up plot and detail of the world and the spirites but i felt empty. (it was my 3rd anime film i had ever seen but after Mononoke opened with a worm like infested hog chase scene. I guess i was expecting another fast chase but it never happened) But it slowly started to win my heart over.

The Bath house is full of wonderful unusual spirits and once again the animation shines to show it. This is the heart of the story and the movie. Chihiro is an innocent girl in a new world, but soon discovers she can no longer boss anyone around like her parents. (snotty/bratty kid who wants to do everything they want and can't except the truth/change) In a way she takes on the spirit of her parents and it shows throughout the movie. She is the income to support the family. She goes out there to work so that she can provide for her family (a cure/release from there pig form) She becomes that nurturing mother figures looking out for her kids who are defenceless against the strangers in the world and literally the things that go bump in the night. But she is also there to disapplin her children as No Face is like her child in the movie. Always there to say what is good for it and what is not. But even when it gets into trouble in the Bath House she still shows a motherly side to the spirit even after the destruction and spirit guest consumption. She is alwas there to guide it to safety, comfort and care for everything out in the world. She is No-face's adopted mother and maybe she or the spirit in a way can never Face that truth.

Anyways overall the movie becomes another classic for all to love and it also owes a great thanks to Joe Hisaishi for yet another great and amazing score.

[Heckalaska]

I got turned on to Japanimation in around 93', when I moved to Hawaii for 4 years. That place is basically little Japan (that's not meant to sound derogatory) and I started checking it out since it was in my face at every video store on the island. I started with Guyver, which was cool until Mark Hamil soiled it with live action. Dug Akira quite a bit as well as a few others. My daughter started getting into Ranma 1/2, which was annoying as all hell and at times, a little racy for a youngster. After that and a few (I think they're called "hentai"?) amazingly stupid xxx cartoons, I wrote off most Japanimation as annoying and immature.

I've rented a couple over the past few years, all of which have not changed my mind. Spirited Away was my very last try at checking out a Japanese cartoon (I told myself). And I only gave it a shot because the word of mouth I read here and at other sites.

I was very pleasantly surprised and glad I did rent it. I'll be buying for sure in the near future. I agree that the opening was a little slow, but not so much that it detracts. The english dub was pretty good for a change and the story was great! None of the characters, save for maybe that midget witch lady, was overly annoying like almost everything else I'd seen in the past.

Only one viewing wasn't enough to discuss it in depth, but I thought I'd relate my little experience like that. It's the first time I've seen something from Japan that I've really liked in a long, long time. I encourage any others out there like me to check it out.

[orf]

I just watched it last night, and I thought it was pretty damn good.

I think it ties with Princess Mononoke, but I don't think it was any better than Mononoke (none of them compare to Studio Ghibli's magnum opus, Grave of the Fireflies).

The one thing that stood out was the (Japanese) voice acting. I loved it. It's one of the better Ghibli movies when it comes to vocals. I tried the English dub for a little bit, just for fun, and I hated it. It's just not the same. It loses all emotion. It's not the worst dub I've heard, but like with all dubs, it's hard for it to actually be GOOD.

The other thing I really liked about it was the amount of memorable characters that some Ghibli movies lack. With Mononoke, no one was ever really memorable for me, but Spirited Away had LOADS of them. I think about 95% of all the characters were memorable, at least.

Contrary to everyone else, I did not find the first 30 minutes boring. I didn't find ANY of it boring. It was all pretty fast-paced and enjoyable. Plot progression might have been slow at first, but the first half hour was just there to set the stage for the movie; to show and analyze the location before setting all chaos loose into the location.

[DrDetroit]

One thing I've noticed about this movie, over the course of a lot of viewings, is the amount of self-reference in regards to Miyazaki's past work. Now, I had this pretty figured out at one point, but some of it may have slipped.

But take for example the sootballs. I thought this was a direct call to Totoro, because they look very much like the dust spirits that inhabit the new house. So Miyazaki takes those creatures that represent a sort of whimsy and fantasy, and he puts them to work in an ardurous never-ending workday.

The big teddy-bear like Totoro himself I thought was parodied by the Radish Spirit (just because they're the roughly the same size). So he goes from being the mystical spirit with wisdom and geniality, to just a creature of excess with a suggestive loincloth (has he eaten from the fruit of knowledge?? ya, too deep, huh?)

Another thing is the "future-version" character. In a couple of Miyazaki's movies, the hero has a mentor who has a bit more experience, and almost figures as a future version of the hero/heroine. I think that Miyazaki stresses this by having the same voice actor who plays the young hero acting older character as well. The most direct example of this is in Kiki's Delivery Service, where Kiki finds a kindred spirit in Ursula, whose role as artist is sort of an analogy for Kiki's own supernatural powers.

This dynamic is tinkered with, I thought, also in Spirited Away. Lin, Sen's appointed mentor, is like a future version, but one who has learned to survive in the bathhouse. So rather than being a role-model, she's sort of deceitful, untrusting, and like everyone besides Sen, she succumbs to No-Face's empty bribes.

Now, I have to go to work, so I'll think of some more later... maybe.

[Oscar Antonio M]

Spirited Away was one of the most magical experiences ive ever had watching a movie. It completely takes off from the "Good guy vs. Bad Guy" cliche and it shows the psychological sides of every character to prove that nobody is really evil, but nobody is really good everybody is a human being, we all have our faults, or advantages and we can do horrible things sometimes, but we can do wonderful stuff too.

The animation is just beautiful i think its quite an improvement over Mononoke after i felt that many of the character movements werent natural and Spirited Away improves greatly upon it and all the colors just jump out from the screen to you and its a beautiful experience to behold.

If its why i like so much about this movie is how you feel for the characters, i actually wanted Chihiro to rescue her parents, to figure out who No-Face was and everytime Chihiro felt surprised or scared, i felt the same too, i was actually close to tears for how moving the scene where we find out about Haku's identity was.

Its too bad that these are the types of movies that get so underlooked in theaters.

[Paul.n3w]

Wow... I just watched Spirited Away. Here's where 99.9% of the world would have an orgasm over how amazing the movie was because of Miyazaki's imaginative characters and the beautiful animation. Sorry, but I'm one of the .1% that actually looked by this false front to see that this movie lacked any kind of a plot. It started out ok, and it ended just as you will expect fifteen minutes into the movie... and everything in between is a sequence of unrelated events that barely advance the plot. The movie takes place in a dream world, so Miyazaki can get away with... anything he wants! It seemed like in multiple places he suffered a memory lapse and decided to start a unrelated story up until *oh wait -- were we trying to achieve some sort of GOAL at the end of the movie? I better get on that right away!* But before you get too far, you have another giant ‘stink monster’ to wash off in the spirit bathhouse, or another golden seal to return to whatsherface just for the hell of it. Instead of going on any longer I'm just going to link to one of the only sensible reviews I've read - one that looks past the very impressive animation to see the flaws that make this movie hard to sit through. Skip this movie and see Princess Mononoke.

[DrDetroit]

I think there is a certain discrepancy between conventional plotting and what Spirited Away attempts to do. You seem to be under the impression that that if something doesn't fit into the concrete 'A leads to B leads to C' formula, then it doesn't succeed.

from the review:

Miyazaki - who not only wrote and directed, but
drew a good chunk of the animation himself as well - once again shows he’s a master of
visual imagery. But this means nothing if the story doesn’t connect.

This is an entirely superficial analysis, and it's not surprising that he didn't "connect." There are themes of abandonment and independence and greed that stream in and out of the frames that it's very hard for me to come to terms with the fact that some people are oblivious to them.

[Version]

Style over substance.

Spirited Away was one of my favorite movies of last year but I too felt like the style overwhelmed the story. Much of the story did not contribute to the main plot and in the end the charcters end up basically as they started and almost exactly were we expect them too from the beggining. The movie is unbelievably inventive but the plot is, to be honest, predictable. Compare this film to Princess Mononoke or Kiki's Delivery Service and to my mind it lacked the cohesive progression they exhibited in both plot and character development.

That doesn't mean I didn't get it or that I didn't appreciate it. So please don't jump on me because I don't think it was perfect. I just recognized what I felt were shortcomings in the film. You may disagree, no problem, but I don't think that it makes me (or anyone for that matter) less intelligent.

4/5 for Spirited Away

[Paul.n3w]

Originally posted by Version
I just recognized what I felt were shortcomings in the film. You may disagree, no problem, but I don't think that it makes me (or anyone for that matter) less intelligent.

It's hard to be the minority viewpoint I totally agree with everything in your review.

[mattmidgette]

I always find anime story plots to be ambiguous. I think anime is built on ideas as opposed to a coherent story structure. "Spirited Away" was filled with beautiful visuals but I couldn't pull a theme from it. "Final Fantasy" was the same way. I watch thinking a plot will pull together in the end - and then I'm left hanging. I felt as if I had watched Miya's dream.
No-face annoyed me considerably. He was the mysterious figure and he seemed to building to a point and the "Poof!" he disappeared. At first he seems to help her and then he attacks her. And that, "Ugh, Ugh" sound he made was horrible. Is that in the original Japanese audio? It would be wonderful if the Japanese actors would learn the English laguage so that we could at least hear it in an accent that fits the film.

I'm still waiting for a great story to match the animation.
(I think Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade almost had it.)

[mattmidgette]

Sorry about the pic - haven't fgured out the avatar thing yet.
this is my first list forum.

matt

[JakeLipson]

This really doesn't discuss the merits of the film, but you all might like to know that such a deserving film is finally getting the recognitiion it deserves due in a large part to the Oscar win. (This comes from animated-movies.com on June 8, 2003.)

While the post-Oscar theatrical release of Spirited Away has run out of steam at around $10 million in gross box office revenues (according to Box Office Mojo), the Miyazaki Oscar-winner continues to generate sales through DVD and PPV, keeping interest high. We've been told that VideoScan is reporting sales of around 250,000 copies of the DVD, and that at VideoScan's normal percentage of the market (60%), the film is at over 400,000 units sold. This puts the DVD revenue well over the theatrical release, and bodes well for continued interest in the merchandise. The DVD is also been in the top fifteen titles in the Video Business bestseller list, the only anime title on that list. Spirited Away is also going into PPV distribution in June. The color manga from Viz, the color art book, and the children's book are all available.

[Morticia]

I finally got around to watching "Sprited Away" last night. Unlike some reviewers/posters, I did find a theme to the film. Growth. As a person.

Notice: Chihiro starts out a spoiled, whiny brat. She ends up a responsible, caring girl. She learns this through observation, hard work, and her interaction with Haku. The plot revolved around the liberation of Chihiro's parents from the pig farm, and Haku from Yababa.

The imagery was very important -- the graceful flight of Haku as the dragon, the flowers in the field, even the enchanted soot. Rarely do movies make me laugh out loud, I prefer to chuckle or smile if something's funny. But the soot guys dropping the ore on their heads purposefully struck me as immensely funny. Also the enchanted 'baby into mouse' -- Miyazaki must know rodents as I know rodents. He moved just like a mouse, especially when he was happy (looking out the train window) or hungry (eating the cherry or whatever it was after running on the spinning wheel). Tish knows happy rodents.

As NotaNumber said, not everything was as it seemed. Yababa didn't really 'know' her immense baby (wasn't that dedicated of a mother as she appeared), and her twin wasn't evil in the end.

I found the whole experience enchanting. I do have one question to those more familiar with Japanese culture and mythology -- did any of the imagery (the Radish spirit, Noh-face, the bath house frogs -- these three in particular, but take your pick) draw from Japanese culture or was this straight from Miyazaki's imagination with very little cultural influence? It all seemed exceptionally surreal to me, but I want to know if it's cultural or just Miyazaki.

[slade]

Pros:

The animation was fun to watch. I especially enjoyed the expressiveness in the characters faces and eyes. The basic storyline was intersting, to a point. It was a nice character study of the little girl and nice to see some ambiguity in the other characters.

Cons:

The parents, the first characters we really get to know, seemed like bizarre characitures, which was an instant turn-off for me. It was so unreal to have them suddenly decide to speed down an unknown road, explore around when they're waiting for a moving truck, and then eat food that isn't theirs that I was drawn-out of the story from the start.

The other characters, although ambigious regarding their good/evil orientation (pro), where also very ambigious regarding their motivation much of the time (huge con). I think, as mentioned by others above, this leads to some of the wandering, incomprehensible story telling. While, I agreee with Dr. Detroit that a plot doesn't have to be coherent to work (see Mulholland Drive and Momento for examples), the characters do need to make sense--otherwise, how can I relate to them. It seemed like there were just too many characters making random decisions for me to get much into this story.

As a result I was bored--huge con.

So, Spirited Away (while probably the best animated film of 2002, given the weak competition last year) wasn't very enjoyable for me.

[betty]

Originally posted by Paul.n3w
...and everything in between is a sequence of unrelated events that barely advance the plot.

thats true. it kind of didnt tie in together. but i foudn it very refreshing somehow. i think its because i grew up with the extremely predictable antics of disney movies. spirtied away was just so creative, the bad guys werent your typical burly men, they were big balls of sludge. i was sort of disapointed with the ending though when i first saw it. im just sort of starting to like it though now that i think about it. i wish i could buy it...too bad it costs an 'arm and a leg' everywere i look

[C Roberts]

I’ve seen this movie a few times now and each time come away with something a little different from it. The movie has lots of subtleties to it that you either notice or you don’t.

An overlying theme to the whole thing seems to be immigrants who risk losing their cultural identities when they move to other countries, mostly the U.S. First they must get a work visa to be able to stay in the country. And the work they get is often tedious jobs that nobody else wants. The cliché of the 7-11 worker or fast food employee who gets a low paying job where he/she has to serve others all day applies. They live in cramped housing sharing rooms with as many other immigrants as they can fit (or sometimes their large family) often sleeping on the floor.
Then we get to the name thing. I’m sure many are aware of how Asian actors like Jet Li pretty much have to change their real name to something simple that American’s can pronounce and spell easy. Similar to Chihiro having to change her name to Sen. This also leads directly to the risk of forgetting one’s cultural identity. Or at the very least being encouraged to forget. Haku forgot not who he was, but where he came from. He forgot that he was a noble river spirit and instead became obsessed with the American dream of corporate power by trying to learn from Yubaba. A not dissimilar “trap” as the parents who became lazy pigs shortly after arriving and eating the foreign food without even considering if it was good for them. *cough*McDonalds*cough*
Yubaba represents the fat and rich American boss living in her penthouse in comfort while the workers slave on the floors below. However, its not a totally negative view of her due to her sister. Yubaba and her sister are actually two sides of the same person. During the day she is the hardcore boss who is all about business and profit. Then at night she flies home and becomes just a regular nice person until she goes back to work in the morning.
The giant baby I’m not sure what it represents. I thought the Government since it does apparently nothing all day but collect the benefits of others labor. It was also reminiscent of a health inspector with its aversion to germs. I’m going out on a limb on that one though. Noh-face represents all the immigrants who just end up on the streets and are forgotten about or ignored. It turns into a criminal by conning/lying, stealing, killing, etc. Until Chihiro treats it decently and takes the time to try and help it get set up in the world so it’s not left out in the cold anymore. There might be more stuff I’m just not thinking of right now. It’s been a while since I watched the movie.

I may be way off on some of this, but I’m sure you won’t watch Spirited Away the same way you did before.

[PorkChopXpress]

Wow, I'm going to have to look through the old Film Discussions and comment on some other movies I love. I didn't even know this movie was discussed.

Originally Posted by C Roberts

I may be way off on some of this, but I’m sure you won’t watch Spirited Away the same way you did before.

I think those are all valid assessments and that is the beauty of this movie. There is just so much that can be taken from it, whether overtly or from the more subtle, underlying themes. Miyazaki has created such a vibrant world inhabited by such rich characters, but there are so many things going on that it takes repeated viewings to truly appreciate all of the brilliant details. Simply a masterpiece.

[Oscar Antonio M]

-OFF TOPIC-
Not really a contribution to the discussion. But a while ago a guy named Daniel Bisogno that works for TV Azteca was given the task of reviewing the film and here's what he had to say:

"The movie got a lot of awards, but it was very bad, and the 10 year old girl that appears in it, the girl was very delicious and in order for people to like this movie they must have inhaled acid along with every other japanese anime, it was very violent.

Don't worry that your kids will get scared seeing it, at least they put normal eye size."



But then again, these guys a few years ago did a show on satanism and they kept blaming anime the whole way through, even the Miyazaki stuff!

Oh well...
-ON TOPIC-

C Roberts that analysis you made of the film was excellent and very thought provoking, a great accompainment to such a great film.