"Gangs of New York" -- July 2003 DVD of the Month

Morticia · 08-10-2003, 03:21 AM

SilentBob had an idea...to take the winners of the DVD of the Month (from Software) and discuss them here. Why not give that a try? Here goes...

This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of "Gangs of New York", the winner of July DVD of the Month.

The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.)

We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion.

Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum.

****SPOILER WARNING**** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers.

Indyphantom · 08-20-2003, 04:03 AM

what week does this discussion begin? I've been out of the loop on these discussions. Are we discussing the films or the DVD's primarily?

airjosh · 08-22-2003, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indyphantom

what week does this discussion begin? I've been out of the loop on these discussions. Are we discussing the films or the DVD's primarily?

It is been ongoing... can't you tell by the lively discussion

The film class is really to talk about the films and not necessarily the DVD, however comments about presentation, etc. wouldn't really be unwelcome.

I have really wanted to particiapate in this discussion as it was the best film of last year IMO, but I haven't had the time to watch my DVD of it yet so I was holding off. Maybe I will watch it tonight and post later.

airjosh · 08-23-2003, 05:06 PM

This movie is simply brilliant in my mind, one of Scorsese's best. This little known piece of American history is presented with fabricated characters, but what is happening in New York at this time is accurate, as is much of unbelievable details of violence and mayhem.

One of the things that I find most interesting about seeing this dark side of our history is how it mirrors a cycle that continues even today. The film deals with the huge influx of the Irish into this country. The Irish stepped into instant poverty and hardship, in order to survive they engaged in criminal and violent activity. As their numbers grew they were able to make some inroads into "respectable" society by becoming police officers, then politicians and gradually evolved from their criminal beginnings to become a major part of early American society. If you look back at all of the minorities that have come/came/were brought to this country, this cycle is nearly always repeated.

First they are villified as the dregs of society because of the tendency towards crime and violence, regardless of the fact that they have little choice if they wish to survive against the forces that wish to keep them down. Once these groups gain some power and money in the community illegally they begin to find legal inroads to contribute more to society and the communities they live in. Eventually they become respected groups in our society with significant positions of power, influence, and wealth. This didn't just happen with the Irish, but the Chinese and most recently African-American and Hispanic communiities.

Scorsese has a fascination with religion and violence and in Gangs of New York, he is able to tie how each group uses their faith to justify their actions. As is the case with many wars, faith is at the root of the differences between the warring groups. This has been going on for thousands of years and even though our country was founded because of a desire for independence and freedom of thought, we were destined to continue this cycle of violence.

You can not talk about this film and not talk about the amazing production and performance by Daniel Day Lewis. Scorsese's attention to detail was manifested in creating this neighborhood from scratch in Italy. In this dark and dirty creation of a long forgotten New York neighborhood, the beauty is in the details. This environment is rich and detailed.

Daniel Day Lewis was robbed in my opinion and it is shameful that there will be nothing concrete in history to mark the achievement of his performance. While Adrian Brody was amazing in The Pianist, DDL was simply brilliant, giving the performance of a career. I will even go so far as to say that it was one of the greatest performances of all time.

Triple HHH · 09-02-2003, 08:33 PM

Excellent stuff airjosh. Great insight about the cycle of violence in our country's history, and I agree with you. I also loved DDL in this film. He takes his standard lines ("When I close my hand, it becomes a fist") and delivers it with such authority and great nuance that you can't help but be fascinated by his character.

The little touches of Scorsese and his editor and cinematographer also charge this film with that Scorsese fire that makes his films so memorable: The editing, where the camera "jumps" in closer to reveal Bill the Butcher's glass eye...Or the slow-motion used to show a tossed Bible plunging into the water. And the final montage of the New York skyline (especially with the WTC in it disappearing). Unforgettable moments.

MrTony · 09-08-2003, 05:24 AM

I'll echo Triple HHH in agreeing with Airjosh.

Another point that I thought resonated rather strongly (but is not often mentioned) is the fact that Bill the Butcher and the rest of the "Natives" rail against Irish immigrants, yet fail to realize or admit that they would not be living in America if their ancestors had not themselves been immigrants. And each generation of immigrants that comes off the boats produces a new generation of children, and they will grow to call themselves "Natives." Another never-ending cycle.

airjosh · 09-08-2003, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTony

I'll echo Triple HHH in agreeing with Airjosh.

Another point that I thought resonated rather strongly (but is not often mentioned) is the fact that Bill the Butcher and the rest of the "Natives" rail against Irish immigrants, yet fail to realize or admit that they would not be living in America if their ancestors had not themselves been immigrants. And each generation of immigrants that comes off the boats produces a new generation of children, and they will grow to call themselves "Natives." Another never-ending cycle.

I too thought of that while watching the film. Throughout history (and not just in this country) the thinking of those that proclaim entitlement generally have little hindsight. Bob the Butcher makes the comments about his father who fought for the freedom of the country and that makes him an American, yet he is not giving those that come off the boat a chance to make the same sacrifice. This is happening while the Irish were being led off of one boat, handed guns and uniforms and shuffled on to another.

Then there is the topic of how the real natives of this country (and pretty much every other aboriginal peoples of the world) were/are raped of their land and cultures by those that felt entitled, who then laid claim to all that was around them.

MooglePorn · 09-09-2003, 06:39 PM

Great flick, but I'm more here to comment on this idea...

I agree and thought the same thing when watching the film. The only native Americans are... well... Native Americans. One of the main things racists do to piss me off is talk about how black people, or arabs more recently, are in "our" country, or whatever... guess what people, this place ain't ours! We're conquering invaders!

Sometimes people can be so stupid you wonder what went wrong.

08-10-2003, 03:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
Morticia Administrator Emeritus Film Class Goddess Part-Time PRN Princess Panty Thief Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Devil's Point. Burn baby burn!	"Gangs of New York" -- July 2003 DVD of the Month SilentBob had an idea...to take the winners of the DVD of the Month (from Software) and discuss them here. Why not give that a try? Here goes... This is a thread to discuss the technical and/or thematic merits of "Gangs of New York", the winner of July DVD of the Month. The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.) We'll discuss a new film each week. Either slade or I will post the film in this forum in advance, and lock the topic until the first day of discussion. Thanks everyone. We are open to any ideas about running this forum. **SPOILER WARNING** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers. __________________ Nope, you really haven't lived until you've fed a naked Fire Dancer a S'more...cooked from her own flaming baton. I reject your reality and substitute my own! "Freeze dried moles. Price as marked." -- Nixon, Suicide Girl Last edited by Morticia : 08-10-2003 at 03:27 AM.

08-20-2003, 04:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Indyphantom Forum Lothario Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: the black lodge...	what week does this discussion begin? I've been out of the loop on these discussions. Are we discussing the films or the DVD's primarily? __________________ My DVD List at DVD Aficionado

08-23-2003, 05:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
airjosh Actor Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: southern oregon	This movie is simply brilliant in my mind, one of Scorsese's best. This little known piece of American history is presented with fabricated characters, but what is happening in New York at this time is accurate, as is much of unbelievable details of violence and mayhem. One of the things that I find most interesting about seeing this dark side of our history is how it mirrors a cycle that continues even today. The film deals with the huge influx of the Irish into this country. The Irish stepped into instant poverty and hardship, in order to survive they engaged in criminal and violent activity. As their numbers grew they were able to make some inroads into "respectable" society by becoming police officers, then politicians and gradually evolved from their criminal beginnings to become a major part of early American society. If you look back at all of the minorities that have come/came/were brought to this country, this cycle is nearly always repeated. First they are villified as the dregs of society because of the tendency towards crime and violence, regardless of the fact that they have little choice if they wish to survive against the forces that wish to keep them down. Once these groups gain some power and money in the community illegally they begin to find legal inroads to contribute more to society and the communities they live in. Eventually they become respected groups in our society with significant positions of power, influence, and wealth. This didn't just happen with the Irish, but the Chinese and most recently African-American and Hispanic communiities. Scorsese has a fascination with religion and violence and in Gangs of New York, he is able to tie how each group uses their faith to justify their actions. As is the case with many wars, faith is at the root of the differences between the warring groups. This has been going on for thousands of years and even though our country was founded because of a desire for independence and freedom of thought, we were destined to continue this cycle of violence. You can not talk about this film and not talk about the amazing production and performance by Daniel Day Lewis. Scorsese's attention to detail was manifested in creating this neighborhood from scratch in Italy. In this dark and dirty creation of a long forgotten New York neighborhood, the beauty is in the details. This environment is rich and detailed. Daniel Day Lewis was robbed in my opinion and it is shameful that there will be nothing concrete in history to mark the achievement of his performance. While Adrian Brody was amazing in The Pianist, DDL was simply brilliant, giving the performance of a career. I will even go so far as to say that it was one of the greatest performances of all time. __________________ The world's fastest personal computer in a title match Everyone needs a home / Top 20

09-02-2003, 08:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
Triple HHH Actor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Governor of California	Excellent stuff airjosh. Great insight about the cycle of violence in our country's history, and I agree with you. I also loved DDL in this film. He takes his standard lines ("When I close my hand, it becomes a fist") and delivers it with such authority and great nuance that you can't help but be fascinated by his character. The little touches of Scorsese and his editor and cinematographer also charge this film with that Scorsese fire that makes his films so memorable: The editing, where the camera "jumps" in closer to reveal Bill the Butcher's glass eye...Or the slow-motion used to show a tossed Bible plunging into the water. And the final montage of the New York skyline (especially with the WTC in it disappearing). Unforgettable moments. __________________ With fronds like these, who needs anemones?

09-08-2003, 05:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
MrTony Forum Wise Guy Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Waterloo, Iowa, USA	I'll echo Triple HHH in agreeing with Airjosh. Another point that I thought resonated rather strongly (but is not often mentioned) is the fact that Bill the Butcher and the rest of the "Natives" rail against Irish immigrants, yet fail to realize or admit that they would not be living in America if their ancestors had not themselves been immigrants. And each generation of immigrants that comes off the boats produces a new generation of children, and they will grow to call themselves "Natives." Another never-ending cycle. __________________ Prevent tornadoes before they happen: Make sure that warm, moist air fronts do not converge with cool, dry ones. Movies, Music and a few Games My Top 20 Films

09-09-2003, 06:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
MooglePorn Actor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA	Great flick, but I'm more here to comment on this idea... I agree and thought the same thing when watching the film. The only native Americans are... well... Native Americans. One of the main things racists do to piss me off is talk about how black people, or arabs more recently, are in "our" country, or whatever... guess what people, this place ain't ours! We're conquering invaders! Sometimes people can be so stupid you wonder what went wrong.

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