John Carpenter

[Notoriousaurus]

This is a thread to discuss the works of director John Carpenter

The purpose being to foster intelligent discussion of films without resorting to "It's a piece of crap." or "It's the greatest film ever." (And so that we all can gain a bit of a film education from everyone.)

****SPOILER WARNING**** of course this entire thread is going to be full of spoilers.

[SephirothClone]

While I havent seen many of his early movies, I will have little opinions on those I have seen:

Golden Age:
Halloween - BEST. HORROR. MOVIE. EVER. I dont need to add anything else, but his haunting score will always be in repeat in my iPod every Halloween.

The Fog - The perfect follow-up to Halloween, a wondefully spooky and fun horror ghost story.

Escape From New York - A cheeseball action flick with one of the biggest badasses in cinema history.

The Thing - The perfect blend of horror and science fiction with creepy as Hell monsters and lots of great scares.

Christine - A killer car... a fucking car. Too cool.

Starman - Didnt finish it because I got bored and tired.

Big Trouble in Little China - One of the most fun movies ever, I always get a grin on my face when I watch it.

Vampires - Fun but zero replay.

Ghosts of Mars - Shit. Pure shit.

Great composer... better director.

[larphillips]

I'd throw ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 and THEY LIVE in with his group of good films.

MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN would have been a much better movie had it not be woefully miscast with Chevy Chase during the beginning of his decline.

PRINCE OF DARKNESS was a failure, but a fully engrossing failure that was wonderfully cast with familiar faces. I LOVED the premise, but I thought the execution left a little to be desired. It was almost as if Carpenter either ran out of money, or interest, or both towards the end of the production.

I have a hope, although it doesn't look promising, that he returns to good, solid storytelling and quits with the practice of pimping out his name.

[Master Gandhi]

John Carpenter's early Feature Films (1976-1982):

Assault on Precinct 13 (1976) - A dark and surprisingly suspenseful action picture, which really got the ball rolling for Carpenter's reputation as a director. He integrates action, western and horror elements into a basic story of survival. It has gained a cult following among fans of the director's work and low-budget action movies in general.

Halloween (1978) - The movie that would put Carpenter on the map, and become a classic horror film of the "slasher" subgenre that it started. Not to mention, it gave birth to a very successful franchise that still continues today (thanks to the original's financer, Moustapha Akkad). If one was forced to choose a favorite from the director's body of work, it would have to be this one. The "shape" remains scarier than Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees combined. He is an unstoppable force without a soul or motives of any kind.

The Fog (1980) - A film that has been praised on many occasions for its "atmosphere", which Carpenter is known for already, but here he truly makes a film that is creepy from start to finish. Every element that is used in it manages to add a layer of atmosphere to the story (such as its music, cinematography, location, mise-en-scene and even acting). You might say it did for fog what Psycho (1960) did for showers and Jaws (1975) did for water. It is definitely one of Carpenter's less well-known classics.

Escape From New York (1981) - The character of Snake Plissken (Kurt Russell) is considered one of the great anti-heroes of our time, and that's mostly because he's a stone cold bad ass who doesn't take shit from anybody. It should also be noted that he's a criminal, who is forced into taking a mission to save the President. Russell's performance carries this movie, plus it has enough thrills and campy dialogue to make the whole ride worth taking. Also, just like in 'Assault', Carpenter blends multiple storytelling elements into the film, so it ends up being more than just another action movie. This film is not to be confused with its inferior sequel, Escape From L.A. (1995).

The Thing (1982) - It was obvious in Halloween that Carpenter admired the original 'Thing' movie, since it was playing on the T.V. in the background, while Jamie Lee Curtis was babysitting. His remake is rather well-regarded, and is considered to be another one of his classics. This movie has an ensemble cast, but isn't too character driven. The actors deliver convincing performances and the direction is completely solid. The creative special effects and boiling tension are what highlight this entertaining science fiction movie. This marked the second feature film collaboration between Carpenter and Russell (who would later work together on Big Trouble in Little China (1985) and Escape From L.A. as well).

[Notoriousaurus]

He has got to be one of the most consistent directors EVER! His movies may not all be great, but they are almost ALWAYS fun. You get what you pay for.

From his recent history...

Ghosts of Mars - Wildly fun, nothing groundbreaking or even very smart. But it is a great time waster with some horrid acting.

Vampires - Shamed to say I never seen.

Escape From L.A. - Shameless retread, but enjoyable in a bad movie kind of way. Casting Bruce Campbell in his small role as the Plastic Surgeon was a blast.

Village of the Damned - Chris Reeve can walk, but his last movie before the accident was a remake of a far superior film. Still as far as good time wasters go. It's not bad.

In the Mouth of Madness - Sam Neill played a GREAT part in this. The movie is pure fun and the suspense when it starts just keeps rolling. I need to pick this up for the collection.

They Live - This is my absolute favourite B-movie of all time, I can watch it again and again. My childhood hero Rowdy Roddy Piper and the alleyway fight scene is the highlights of the film.

Prince of Darkness - The only Carpenter movie that left a sour taste in my mouth. (Sorry Tish) Uninspired, and droll. However seeing Alice Cooper and Donald Pleasance in the same movie is something you won't find elsewhere.

...beyond that everybody knows his catalogue. The Thing, Halloween, Escape From New York... enough has been written about these that everyone knows they are amongst the greatest genre films of all time.

I still need to see his original Assault on Precinct 13 and Dark Star...someday...

Anyhoo, John carpenter is one of the few directors left that when I hear about an upcoming project I can get excited without even hearing a sinopsis. I know I am going to have a blast.

[Morticia]

Originally Posted by Notoriousaurus

Prince of Darkness - The only Carpenter movie that left a sour taste in my mouth. (Sorry Tish) Uninspired, and droll. However seeing Alice Cooper and Donald Pleasance in the same movie is something you won't find elsewhere.

That's ok Noto -- really, I just rewatched it and I have to admit, it was better when I was a poor college student being assaulted by differential equations and suchnot. It holds a dark, dank spot in my little ol' heart, though - and God Bless Alice!

I just picked up "In the Mouth of Madness" and promise to post my thoughts here after watching it. I remember really wishing I had seen it when it came out, but I can't really remember much past that, so it will be (hopefully) a good experience.

[plaver]

Can anybody advise where I buy The Fog special edition on DVD as it's not available in UK. I have a US address where I can have the DVD sent to and then on to me in UK if needed, any help and advice much appreciated.

Best Regards
Peter

[Morticia]

Try any online retailer, like amazon.com (what, nothing at amazon.uk?) or deepdiscountdvd.com.

And please -- uh, your inquiry, while valid, is not correctly placed in Film Discussion. Please do a search in Software for "FOG". Thanks.

[ebuzz79]

Originally Posted by Notoriousaurus

They Live - This is my absolute favourite B-movie of all time, I can watch it again and again. My childhood hero Rowdy Roddy Piper and the alleyway fight scene is the highlights of the film.

Prince of Darkness - The only Carpenter movie that left a sour taste in my mouth. (Sorry Tish) Uninspired, and droll. However seeing Alice Cooper and Donald Pleasance in the same movie is something you won't find elsewhere.



I still need to see his original Assault on Precinct 13 and Dark Star...someday...

This is my first post in these parts so please be kind.

Noto, while I like They Live the alleyway fight bothers me. I'm not really sure why. Maybe it's because I'm not a wrestling fan and the scene was meant to showcase Piper in some way? It just didn't work for me and felt very awkward. But other than that I agree it's great B movie fun. As for Prince Of Darkness I loved it. Great score and opening credits sequence. But what really made the movie for me was the nightmare transmissions, that was very creepy stuff.
I'd strongly suggest you seek out Assault On Precinct 13 as soon as possible. It's got that whole Carpenter B movie- Western thing going for it. (not to mention one of his best scores). As for Dark Star, I wouldn't be in any rush. To me it's more of a curiosity piece than anything. It kind of foreshadows things that were to come from Carpenter and O'Bannon.


Christine sure it has plot holes, but it's still a fun movie with some good performances, a bad ass villan and naturally an excellent score.
I've heard that for some reason Carpenter is ashamed of the movie. However on the Q&A on the Assault dvd he's says he'd be up for doing a commentary for Christine. Which I would love since we all know how great his commentaries are.

Escape From LA never seen it, and don't plan to. Maybe it's because I love the original too much? And what I've seen of it (ads on tv) horrified me.

Village Of The Damned only saw it once in the theatre. From what I remember it wasn't that bad or good. Wasn't that beast Kirstie Alley in it?

The Thing IMO, one of those rare instances where the remake is better than the original. The effects still hold up today. (well actually better than the CGI/videogame bullshit that everyone seems so fond of). And it was nice to see John and Kurt team up again. My only complaint would be too many undefined characters.

Starman haven't seen it since I was a kid, need to check it out again.

Halloween ,The Fog , Escape From NY. like Noto said, what else can you say about these in a brief descrpition other than they are some of the best genre films ever made.

[Morticia]

Well done, ebuzz79! Thanks for your insights -- you've done a good job.

[John Yaya]

my favorite John Carpenter films...

Halloween is at the top of my list when it comes to horror films...Just a wonderfully creepy and atmospheric scare ride...the music, the setting, and of course our favorite Bogeyman, Michael Myers..truly a misunderstood soul and nary a drop of blood spilled.. To this day I hate stepping into my pitch black garage..you just never know if the Bogeyman is lurking nearby

The Thing... a gory but extremely effective Sci-Fi horror film.

Starman... easily one of the most underrated films of all time.. wonderful performances by Jeff Bridges and Karen Allen

Escape From NY... a very cool flick indeed...features one of the greatest names in cinema history..SNAKE PLISSKEN..imagine if he had real budget to work with on this one!!

Vampires...pretty good, could have been better but James Woods as the vampire hunter really makes it worth watching

The Fog...another great and eerie horror film

biggest dissapointment

They Live... what a great concept and storyline! ...if he only had a real budget and a better cast

[Mickey Rourke]

I'm quite fond of Carpenter's criminally ignored Invisible Man film. It's strange to think Starman and Ghosts Of Mars are made by the same person. Ghosts Of Mars is one of the worst studio pictures of the last 10 years.

[Mirage52]

From what I've seen...

Assault on Precinct 13 - a good taught movie. I need to re-watch the original again before the remake is released as I only saw the original on TV when i was a kid. The suspense here is on the level with the suspense used in Halloween. Good stuff.

Halloween - the best horror movie ever. Everything works on all their different levels. Music, suspense, lighting, everything. The acting was probably the weakest part of the movie, but actually added to the realism of the movie. John Carpenter's high water mark.

The Fog - a good horror movie. There is no way that he could ever top Halloween and The Fog is about as good a movie that we could expect from someone who just completed a masterpiece.

Village of the Damned - pure crap. Will be remembered as Christopher Reeve's last movie before being paralyzed than a John Carpenter movie.

Vampires - I thought he was getting back on track with this one. I liked it. Lots of gore, some suspense, but otherwise a mediocre movie. This movie is like the sports team that goes .500 for a season and you expect big things from them the next year.

Ghosts of Mars - what a letdown. After the hope that Carpenter gave us in Vampires was totally lost with this dirtloaf. Terrible acting, editing, directing and special effects. It could have harked back to something like Assault on Precint 13, but totally missed the mark.

In several movies it seems like Carpenter losses interest in the subject matter. I'm not sure what his deal is, but anyone - a writer, director, athlete whatever - cannot get by with just one good accomplishment - and in Carpenter's case - that would be Halloween.

He is highly overrated in my opinion.

[Lex M]

My constant complaint about post-80s Carpenter, which I like to scream to the rafters every chance I get, is that the reason JC's body of work has become has so bad lately, is that many of his simpatico collaboraters of his early era have left him, or moved on to bigger and better things. While JC is in every way an auteur, filmmaking is still a collaborative process, and it seems like Carpenter has been working with a B-level crew over the last decade. The most devastating loss was the switch from Dean Cundey as his DP to the very bland, TV-movie-ish Gary Kibbe, who, while competent, is awfully uninspired, making little use out of JC's trademark Panavision, and instead settling for a flat look that looks, as I like to say, Made for USA Network.

Think about it. In his salad days, from 1976 with ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13, through roughly THEY LIVE, Carpenter was a prolific cause celebre among genre filmmakers. He cranked out a solid, gritty, cynical, edgy B-movie about once a year, and even showed signs of maturing with the more ambitious THE THING, STARMAN, and BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA. Unfortunately, at least two of those three were, at the time, pretty conspicuous bombs at the B.O., and he retreated to B pictures with the one-two punch of PRINCE OF DARKNESS and THEY LIVE. No shame in those two at all, but something funny happened around this time.

After THEY LIVE, the prolific director retreated and didn't make a movie again for over three years, not unusual for others, maybe, but certainly for Carpenter, who returned with a hired-gun job on MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN. I actually like this movie, especially Sam Neil's villain, but the JC trademarks were all missing -- the synth score, the white on black credits, the cool supporting turns from, say, Tom Atkins and Charles Cyphers.

He then returned (sort of) to form with IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS, which is sadly beginning to look more and more like the last really competent JC film. Good cast, good concept. My only complaint, again, was that his style seemed a little watered down here -- the old moody synth drones replaced by wah-wah guitar straight out of the hair metal era, the somewhat flat compositions by Kibbe.

Unfortunately, it's been pretty down hill since then. VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED is watchable, but icy and mean-spirited; compare VILLAGE with ESCAPE FROM NY or THE THING, and you'll be shocked by the drop in quality in virtually every aspect of filmmaking.

ESCAPE FROM L.A. is a fun romp, and Russell is a riot in his second go at Snake Plissken, but as has been said ad nauseum, it's basically a lighter remake of the original, with shitty special effects and a bland visual style that does nothing to hide them. Whereas the earlier film was all black-and-blue murk and grit, this one's chintzy and flat, with some of the clunkiest production design to ever grace a $50 million film.

VAMPIRES and GHOSTS OF MARS -- the less said, the better. Excepting James Woods' hilarious performance in the former, these both seem like JC doing an imitation of Robert Rodriguez doing an imitation of Carpenter. Bland red-tinted lensing, dull compositions, and annoying use of dissolves which look like they're merely covering for JC not shooting enough coverage. It's weird; To hear JC on his commentary tracks, even for these films, he's still sharp as a tack. It's not like he's feeble, just maybe bored. Sadly, that boredom, or simple not caring, is showing through more and more in the films themselves.

[stiles]

I'm a huge Carpenter fan, I have been since watching The Thing when it came out... which is, by far, the best re-make of a film, ever.

My least favorite is Vampires.

I won't go into serious commentary on the films, since people have already said a ton about the movies and I agree with some of the posts.

I think Carpenter was one of the first (if not the first) independent writer/producer/director whose movie broke box-office records the theaters, and in 1978 dollars, no less.

And I think it's because of this reason (along with him being talented) that he will always be able to get a film made. Ghosts of Mars had a pretty high budget of $28 million... while Escape from LA had, five years earlier, a $50 million dollar budget.

Both films did terrible at the box office.

I trust Carpenter as a director, but I think the choices in scripts is what is making these last few films so not on par with his earlier work. I think the same thing can be said about Schwarzenegger... I'm just making a comparison here between the two, because their choices of scripts (End of Days and The 6th Day for Arnold) were not good choices.

His films until Memoirs have all been relatively low budget, and though they never made as much money as Halloween, they all were successful in their own rights. Till this day the films do well in rentals and sales, so they continue to make money.

I thought 1995 was a great year, because Carpenter filmed both Village of the Damned and In the Mouth of Madness at the same time... crazy guy. I enjoyed both of them.

It's funny, but his films haven't made money since, yet every since Halloween addition to the franchise (for which he gets a check) makes money.

I got to see an early screening of Ghosts of Mars, which I enjoyed, and learned that when he makes a deal to shoot a film, he makes sure to have no test audiences view the work, so the studios don't have the opportunity to make their own cut of the film. Pretty neat.

I wrote some reviews of his work, if you're interested. Keep in mind, they're just my reviews, I'm not trying to be pretentious or anything.

The Fog
Assault on Precinct Thirteen
Christine
In the Mouth of Madness
Ghosts of Mars

Anyway, hope you enjoy them if you read them.

[plissken99]

In reading this thread I've tried in vein to put his movies in order of favorites, I simply can't. Notoriousaurus hit the nail on the head in that Carpenter is the most consistent director. Even some of my favorite directs have a stinker every few films. Here are my thoughts on his movies in order of old to new(because I'm reading off IMDB to make sure I don't miss any of them), I won't mention them all, as there's way to many.

Dark Star is definitly one to watch to say you've seen all of his films. It was childishly amatuer, little more than an exorcise to see what he could do.

Assault on Precinct 13 Again is very early, and Carpenter really doesn't have his groove, but you can see it forming in every shot. Decent cast with acceptable acting, and the start of his signature panovision.

Halloween I used to hate this movie. Because I'm 21, and had seen newer stuff(copies) before I was exposed to it, and thought it was lousy. But I've come to appreciate how original it is, and very atmospheric. And yes, the score is the highlight of the entire series, and I play it on the front porch every Halloween. Not one of my favorites, but I enjoy it from a historical point of view.

The Fog Near perfection in atmosphere horror as far as I'm concerned. The cinematography is awesome, and the ghosts in the fog are the stuff of nightmares.

Escape From New York Heh, from my username you can guess this one holds a special place in my heart(plus I was watching it when I registered). This is a favorite, beyond being a John Carpenter film. Snake Plissken is IMHO the best anti hero ever commited to film thus far, Riddick can only dream of being this cool. I can't even describe it, everything in this movie is just great, acting cinematoghraphy, and score is as memorable as the Halloween score.

The Thing Still one of the scariest movies ever made. This is may be my favorite Carpenter film. The gross out effects are some of the best ever, and acting is top knotch. My absolute favorite "trust no one" movie.

Prince of Darkness Indeed this one falls short, and is the closest Carpenter has ever come to a dud in my mind. Still very enjoyable and creepy.

They Live Another favorite, and shows off Carpenters attitude more than any movie he made next to the Escape movies(he has a real problem with authority). And actually cinematically exadgerates a thought I have that society has been lulled to sleep by those in power, but thats another discussion . The alley fight believe it or not was very symbolic and went on for so long for a reason. It symbolises how hard man will fight to keep a comfortable illusion alive. Because the whole thing is about him not wanting to put on the glasses. As in the matrix, they don't free a mind beyond a certain age, as they will not accept the harshness or reality, and in some cases would fight to preserve the lie(Cypher).

Big Trouble in Little China My absolute favorite guy movie. It's got everything, martial arts, a cool cheesy soundtrack, ancient evil, gun fights, sword fights, beautiful women, and shit blows up. What more one ask for!? This is one I can watch any time of the day, with a big grin on my face.

In the Mouth of Madness One of Carpenters most underrated movie. Definitly one of the most all out scary films I've ever seen, and excellent performances from Sam Neil and Jurgen Prochnow. A real mind bender.

Escape From L.A. What can I say, it's Snake. I like this one almost as much as the first. Largely because I know John Carpenter hates sequals, and basically makes fun of them in this movie. It is a light remake of the original, with a big boomy soundtrack and ridiculous stunts(surfing Wilshire canyon), for the sake of ridiculous stunts. The virus is 100% pure death.

Vampires A good movie, but there's just nothing really special about it. Valek makes for a cool vampire villian. James Woods goes so over the top I'm not sure if it's meant to be laughable or not, and proves Adam Baldwin can never have a line in a movie ever again. Still it's good fun.

Ghosts of Mars This movie has so many detractos, but I loved it. I know the story is a joke, the acting is a cut above porno caliber, but it's still that one popcorn fun, and if ever there was a movie to watch while drunk, this is it.

[Chunkblower]

It's almost a universal constant that when directors put their names above the title in a possessive manner (ie. John Carpenter's Vampires... Wes Craven's New Nightmare is an exception to this rule, though I wouldn't argue the contention that we've seen the best from Craven we ever will.. another thread), that the film will suck and the directors' career is over. Really, did John Carpenter's name on the Ghosts of Mars poster really draw that many more people into the theatre? No, and reason for that is that John hasn't been able to use his name as currency for a long, long time.

He had a good run though. As many have pointed out, he's made some bonafide masterpieces: Assault, Halloween, Escape from N.Y,The Thing.. as well as several respectable genre efforts. And even many of his failures are at least entertaining, intriguing or provocative: Prince of Darkness, They Live, Big Trouble.

I don't know what the decline in his career can be attributed to for sure, but my suspicion is that he regrets not having made the western he always wanted to. It's obvious he has great passion for the genre: He's co-scripted several western Teleplays, his gushing for the genre in just about every interview he does, the constant insertion of western themes/cliches into his genre films and then his work on The Once Upon a Time in the West DVD.

And now he could probably never get it off the ground. Aside from the genre being pretty much dead, he's nowhere near the bankable director he was in the late 70'-early 80's. He's always going to have a steady income due to the royalties the Halloween franchise continues to pay him, so I'm sure he's not starving, but a natural director like Carpenter should be working.

I don't think he has had any passion for any of the projects he's done in the past 15 years. In the Mouth of Madness is probably the only halfway decent film he's done in that period, but the lustre on that one wore off after the second viewing. It's sad, because Carpenter is so enormously talented, and helped kick start the 80's horror boom that so many other directors benefitted from. I'd hate to entertain the notion that he's dried up and has nothing left.

My personal favorite John Carpenter movies will likely come as no surprise: Halloween and The Thing (in that order), though I also love The Fog, Christine, Prince of Darkness (guilty pleasure), They Live.

[WAID]

I remember taking a date to see the double feature "Alien" and "The Thing." I liked both although I had heard enough about the chestburster scene that it was anti-climatic.

I really didn't know much about the "Thing" remake and I loved it. Unlike some of the previous posts, I think the characters were fleshed out pretty well. I think I connected to this movie because rather than teenagers doing stupid things and getting killed, this movie had characters who had to think things through and the dialogue was credible for the situation. I remember thinking near the end of the movie when Kurt Russell yells "F*** you too!" that I could see myself saying that as well.

If the characters weren't fairly well defined the tension and paranoia wouldn't have worked as well. And as great as the special effects were, the movie works because of the characters. When the sherrif is tied to the couch and starts calmly talking about the stress and quickly loses it about being untied, that I think is as effective as the gore.

And who doesn't love the documentary on the DVD?!

[Midnight Cowboy]

The first Carpenter films I was exposed to as a youngster were Escape from New York and Christine. I like Christine. I think it holds up pretty well. I like the guy who plays Arnie.

Being a wrestling fan when I was a kid drew me to ""They Live" with Roddy Piper. What a great flick. The fight scene alone if worth the price of admission.

I saw the fog a little while ago. It was ok. Eh.

I'm a big Kurt Russell fan, and Snake Plistkin was one of his best characters.

John Carpenter is second to none in his field of moviemaking. Good or bad, you always end up with some form of entertainment. And for that I tip the hat.

[Emos-Edud]

Best thing about Carpenter is how almost all of his films end with the evil or unknown element still at-large. There is always more to the story for you to think about as the credits roll. As in life, there is never a final answer. Peace and rest only come in death. Life is uncertainty.

Also, the dude knows how to frame his movies. Granted he works that out with his DPs, but he picks the DPs.