Goodfellas Discussion

[Harro5]

Martin Scorcese's Goodfellas is an all-time classic, and is probably the movie sitting atop the "Please Give Me A Decent DVD Release...GIGLI GOT ONE!!!" pile at present.

But as a change, why don't we discuss the film itself instead of the terrible two-sided extraless, menuless (for God's sake Warner Bros., hurry up with the SE) DVD release?

Do you love this film? Why? Is it better than the Godfather? Does it benefit from being based on a true story? Should Joe Pesci own the unconditional rights to the f-word?

[larphillips]

Comparing Goodfellas to The Godfather never seemed like a fair discussion for me. Yes, they are both mob movies, but going beyond that they are as different as apples and oranges.

The 'reality' of Goodfellas really never came into play for me. I read Wiseguy, and so many details were changed in Goodfellas that it never mattered to me. Sometimes, a fact-based film is able to coast along on the very fact that what you are watching really happened. Goodfellas was so masterfully crafted that it didn't matter if it was fact-based or wholly a work of fiction. Besides, after countless appearances on Stern, Henry Hill comes off as nothing but a jackass who is lucky that the mob doesn't give enough of a shit about him to whack his ass.

Goodfellas is a true American epic that spans some of the coolest decades in the United States. Scorsese paints a canvas with a cast so amazing that even the great Sam Jackson is in a bit part. Marty, who always uses music so well in his films, creates a sonic tour-de-force that not only gets us in the right era, but the right mood for every scene.

When I first saw this movie in the theater in college, I remember clearly walking out into the night speechless. I had to stand outside and take a few deep breaths of air to fully absorb what I had just been witness to. After many repeated viewings, I have no doubts that this will be #2 on my all-time favorite movie list for the rest of my days.

[MrTony]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Comparing Goodfellas to The Godfather never seemed like a fair discussion for me. Yes, they are both mob movies, but going beyond that they are as different as apples and oranges.

The Godfather and Goodfellas are two of my favorite movies (#1 and #3 on my YMDB list, respectively), and yes, they are completely different.

The Godfather is about the myth of the Mafia. Mob bosses are benevolent grandfather types who can order a hit and perform a favor for the neighborhood shopkeep in the same afternoon. Honor is of utmost importance, and someone who double-crosses you and subsequently gets what's coming to him accepts it as "part of the lifestyle."

Goodfellas, on the other hand, is completely grounded in the reality of organized crime. Bosses don't hold court in their mansions and receive visitors: they operate out of the neighborhood pizza joint, play cards with underlings and talk on the phone all day. Criminals flash $100 bills at the Copa on Saturday night, and then spend Monday scrambling for cash ("When I was broke, I would rob some more"). Home lives are often a wreck. And the days of dying peacefully in bed are long gone - by the end of the movie, we see that often, there are only three ways out of the Mafia - prison, witness protection, or death.

I saw Martin Scorsese on Late Night With Conan O'Brien a year or so ago, and he talked about how Goodfellas was criticized for glorifying the Mafia and making it appear glamourous. He derided this notion by pointing out what happens to Henry Hill at the end. I agree with this, but I don't think Scorsese gives himself enough credit. I would argue that Goodfellas did nothing less than destroy the modern myth of the American Mafia, and how the Mafia is portrayed in film. Instead of being viewed as a bunch of urban Robin Hoods with a code of honor, the mob is now seen as a collection of misfits who looked for the easy way out, ruled by greed and self-interest. The Sopranos routinely references The Godfather both literally and stylistically, but its vision of the mob owes everything to Scorsese's.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Comparing Goodfellas to The Godfather never seemed like a fair discussion for me. Yes, they are both mob movies, but going beyond that they are as different as apples and oranges.

Would this comparison be about the same as comparing Goodfellas with Casino? I've seen Goodfellas only once, so it's not "etched" in my brain.

I wouldn't consider a comparison of Casino and The Godfather to be "fair" since they are so radically different. I've always thought of Casino and Goodfellas as being "peers".

Peace...

[C Roberts]

I've only seen Goodfellas once unfortunately (waiting on the SE). I think its most comparable to Scarface though if anything. Both are about guys working their way up from the bottom of the crime world. Then when they become successful they get greedy/arrogant and end up losing everything.

[Harro5]

I think that the best way to compare The Godfather and Goodfellas is that they are both odes to the phrase, "Crime doesn't pay." Of course, in both movies, the characters become filthy rich, but in the end lose all that is close to them.
The difference is that Henry Hill is left with no one and nothing, a life in hiding, a life completely different too his own. Michael Corleone is also left with no one, but hey, at least he's still got millions in accounts everywhere, a mansion, political contacts, respect...and did you ever really think he liked PEOPLE!?!

Goodfellas shows what really happens to gangsters when they get in a tight spot...either they end up in prison, under witness protection, or dead. (The Godfather is still my favourite movie ever though!!!)

[larphillips]

The Godfather is a tale of the mafia at its peak in influence and power. When they DID have their fingers in everything from the local cops on the beat to national and international affairs.

Goodfellas is about the mob in decline, when they opened their doors to drugs and ultimately, their ruination.

[DrDetroit]

Originally Posted by Harro5

I think that the best way to compare The Godfather and Goodfellas is that they are both odes to the phrase, "Crime doesn't pay." Of course, in both movies, the characters become filthy rich, but in the end lose all that is close to them.
The difference is that Henry Hill is left with no one and nothing, a life in hiding, a life completely different too his own. Michael Corleone is also left with no one, but hey, at least he's still got millions in accounts everywhere, a mansion, political contacts, respect...and did you ever really think he liked PEOPLE!?!

I don't think wrapping up either movies in the "crime doesn't pay" hallmark greeting really explains anything, no more than "Rosebud" tells us anything about ol' Charlie Kane. I don't think that The Godfather has both feet planted squarely in the pond of factual reality, but it's a potent fable or allegory for the American rise and fall from grace, synthesized by the humble begins of Vito, to the decadent schmoozing of a dead-eyed Michael at the end of part 2.

"Crime doesn't pay" doesn't really work for Goodfellas either. I think the movie has more to say about how fucking great crime is, and what a total bummer it is to not be in and around the fruits of crime.