B&W vs. Color

[C Roberts]

This is not necessarily a thread about B&W movies that have been colorized, although that could be a valid part of the discussion.

Color is clearly used more nowadays, although whether thats because its more appropriate for the film or more likely to gain box office $'s I don't know. But B&W has been used to good effect in a bunch of films over the past few decades. So which is best to use when?

aintnosin mentioned in the Schindler's List thread that B&W was used after I'd asked about how graphic the movie's holocaust scenes were. Is B&W typically used to lessen the emotional attachments to scenes?

Citizen Kane works well in B&W and The Godfather works well in color. Could either of these movies have worked as well if they were reversed?

What about Clerks which was followed in the "Jersey Series" by all color movies? How big a part did B&W play in the success of Clerks? Why does it work well in B&W and not the ones following it?

What about movies that have some scenes in B&W and some in color? Are there any that stand out as being particularly good choices for those scenes or particularly bad?

[santeethrash]

im not sure were to start my incoherent rambling... haha

of course color will draw more people to a theater. if there was no color clueless wouldn’t have a gimmick to sell... haha. anyway color is more stimulating even to those of us who have learned to appreciate the intentional use of black and white film. but black and white film still really has its place in my heart and the heart of many enthusiasts and I believe that’s why studios still continue to make them.

I think it all comes down to the directors vision. you can use color or black and white with lighting to accomplish many things. effect emotions , detail of environment, visual connections, visual divide, as well as sense of reality... etc. think of the first time you got punched in the face... its funny cause you close your eyes and actually see red. you can use certain colors to trigger certain feelings or emotions. there are huge corporate and state studies on how colors effect the subconscious. directors can use a similar approach as suggestion to the audience. its harder to get detail in black and white in things such as moss or dampness and small things like that a detailed. sense of environment can really liven a scene. you can use a color as a characters signature just think of the ninja turtles for example haha. you can use tint as a differentiating tool as is the case in traffic. you can also use color and black and white to separate fantasy from reality, or as a symbol much like the wizard of oz. you can wash colors to give a more cold feeling sepia to give a dirty feeling, black and white to exaggerate contrast with composition and lighting (most photographers favorite)... as you pointed out to detatch the audience(you realize its not real because its not in color) and I think one of the biggest reasons for directors using black and white is to simply give a vintage look.

as far as witch movie works well in black in white... that is a very complicated question. as I stated before I think its up to the director if he sees it in black and white from the beginning that’s what it should be. but to say either of those movies wouldn’t work in color that’s really hard to say. I think its safe to say a movie like the man who wasn’t there would not work in color(that is my favorite film right now, the lighting and composition is flawless).

im pretty sure clerks was filmed in black and white cause its cheaper for film and to process. and i think a big part of the reason it gained popularity was the simple fact that it was visually different then most other films in its genre. the dialog does have obvious through backs though.

art is just a outlet its hard to call something good or bad its all a matter of opinion. some may not have worked as well as others but none that stand out particularly in my mind.

this is a complicated subject more than enough to right a book about.

sorry if this reads like a bad middle school essay i dont want to spend a year on it haha.

[LeCercleRouge]

Well, it all depends on the director.

Tati started with B & W and moved on to color films. Tati knew how to take advantage of the chromatic possibilities of film. I mean, can you imagine Mon Onlce in black and white? The film wouldn’t work without the pastel colors of the homes and tinted water that sprays from the fish-statue. M. Hulot’s Holiday, a film about nostalgia, is a wonderful B&W film that could only exist in a B & W world.

Fellini was the same with color, except the possibilities of color drove Fellini insane.


JUST MY OPIONIONS:

Kubrick’s 2001 is the greatest color film.

With regards to cinematography, The Last Picture Show is the best B&W drama ever made. The Train is the best B&W action film ever made.

Once Upon a Time in The West should have been in B & W (and don’t give me crap about Fonda’s blue eyes)

Kurosawa’s Throne of Blood should have been in color.

[C Roberts]

Once Upon a Time in The West should have been in B & W (and don’t give me crap about Fonda’s blue eyes)

For some reason that made me think of the movie Pleasantville where they mixed B&W and Color. But of course that fit as part of the plot of the movie.

[Meloosh]

I can't imagine Jarmusch's B & W films in color- it would ruin their tone entirely.

[Shoegaze99]

Originally Posted by LeCercleRouge

Once Upon a Time in The West should have been in B & W (and don’t give me crap about Fonda’s blue eyes)

Leone would have.

He thought the image of Fonda's blue eyes were key to the dramatic impact of the role.

Once Upon A Time In The West is too rooted in the rich, dusty, sweaty visual splendor of the west for me to want to see it in black and white. That glossy sheen of sweltering hot people, the haze of dust and ruin, the majestic landscapes, and the use of contrasting colors (rich red hues in the train man's train car, drab, dust reds on the homestead). That would be lost in black and white.

[Shoegaze99]

Originally Posted by C Roberts

Schindler's List thread that B&W was used after I'd asked about how graphic the movie's holocaust scenes were. Is B&W typically used to lessen the emotional attachments to scenes?

For Schindler’s List, the use of black and white gave it less of a Hollywood sheen, in my opinion, which is a perfect decision for the film. I did not feel any less attached to the material through the decision. (The excellent graphic novel “Maus,” also about the Holocaust, is also in black and white ... and uses mice in place of Jews! Still powerful)

Citizen Kane works well in B&W and The Godfather works well in color. Could either of these movies have worked as well if they were reversed?

Citizen Kane relied so much on harsh contrasts and deep shadows, played so much with composition through the same, that I can’t imagine a color version of it.

The Godfather Part II, on the other hand, could probably have worked as half black and white and half color. (The same with Once Upon A Time In America, arguably) Rather than sepia tones, I could see the early parts working in black and white (though I do love those colors).

The first Godfather could have worked in black and white, too. It’s such a darkly lit film, with shadow so important, that I could see it working.

How big a part did B&W play in the success of Clerks?

None at all. Or, only in making it seem more “small and obscure,” and therefore allowing its cult status to cultivate by helping people think no one else had heard of this tiny black and white film. But I don’t think its black and white status has anything to do with why the movie clicked with people.

What about movies that have some scenes in B&W and some in color? Are there any that stand out as being particularly good choices for those scenes or particularly bad?

Memento. Perfect choices as far as color and B&W is concerned ... a choice the director even spun into the film as a means of explaining the timeline and how each narrative linked. Interesting stuff. The B&W allows us to feel detached and reflective as the main character does, almost dreamlike when contrasted with the color scenes – which, strangely, are the more dreamlike because of the disjointed narrative.

[goatsaddle]

I read something about lessening the emotional attachements to secnes. I think that's a good point and why some directors choose to go black and white for some, or all scenes. Some of these movies mentioned come to mind, but I also think about a movie like Kill Bill. I very much liked the black and white aspects of that movie because it just added another demention to Tarantino's work. I assume the black and white was used during the goriest(sp?) scenes to cut the gore factor of the blood going everywhere. Nevertheless, I liked it....