THE MATRIX - Live Chat, Thursday, February 3, 2005

[esc]

We will be watching The Matrix at the usual time on Feb 3rd. transcript will be up here within a day or 2 of when we watch the film.
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02/09/05 ... whats left of the the chat ... what could be salvaged is now up about 8 posts down .... enjoy!

[Sycho]

Well tonight was going good until someone was convinced that dts was better because the higher bitrate. I tried to explain that the codecs use a different structure, but someone didn't care, and was still convinced that higher bitrate means more quality, so I left.

[Danishdvdfreak]

Well, that someone is me, and I think its great that we all have different oppinions. What I don´t like is when someone says "f**k you" just because my oppinion differs from that certain someone´s oppinion...

Someone needs to grow up a bit and learn how to respect others oppinions.

About the compression bit...well, you can all read the transcript and see how it happened. Im not even gonna get into an arguement here. I have better things to do.

Believe it or not, I get up at 3 am in the morning to be at these chats. I was filling in for esc tonight, and I really dont appreciate a "F**k you" just because my oppinions differ from others. When someone cant have a grown up talk about stuff like this without cussing, I dont see the need to do this anymore...Hell, I even tried to say "lets just aggree to dis-aggree", but that just caused someone to log of the chat...how mature

I know that someone is just 18, but someone needs a lesson on how to behave. I sure hope he´s not this way in real life...

[Sycho]

(chapter 29)

DanishDVDfreak: Why isn´t this in DTS ?!?

Andrew: cause dts is useless

DanishDVDfreak: ????

Andrew: warner proved

DanishDVDfreak: Warner is just to stupid to use it

Andrew: they remixed tracks for about 5 movies and they sounds the same

DanishDVDfreak: Then they don't do it properly !

Andrew: they are the only ones who knew how to properly encode the tracks

DanishDVDfreak: SOME DTS tracks don't sound better or just like the DD, but for the most part I think DTS is much better

Andrew: dts is a different mix

Andrew: thats why you THINK it sounds better

DanishDVDfreak: Yes, I know that, but I have heard comparisons and the difference was obvious

DanishDVDfreak: And DTS is not compressed like DD is

Andrew: bullshit, it uses shity compression and can't get the bitrate low as dolby digital

DanishDVDfreak: I don't agree with that. I know they don't compress it like DD, but I still think it sounds much better most of the time

DanishDVDfreak: And low bitrate is NOT good

DanishDVDfreak: Anyone here anymore ?

Andrew: Well, if you continue to say dts is better, I'm leaving again

DanishDVDfreak: Hmm...It is a matter of taste...Im not saying that you cant like DD better...im just stating facts about the compression

Andrew: and that dolby digital uses a completely different and better compression. know the facts first

DanishDVDfreak: Ok...listen...compression is NOT good alright ? When you compress ANYTHING, you lessen the quality...DTS is NOT supposed to be compressed like DD.. DD is compressed at about 1:12...DTS at about 1:3...that makes a higher bitrate, and therefore keeps more information

Andrew: fuck you, your wrong

DanishDVDfreak: I'm NOT saying that DTS is better always...it depends on the mix...and it depends on the setup and people personal reference. But don't you agree that the higher the bitrate, the higher the quality ?

Andrew: no, because its completely different codec structure

DanishDVDfreak: Allright...if you are gonna use that tone, I just think we should end this

Andrew: mpeg2 HD is about 20mbps and wm9 is around 8mbps, but wm9 can look better then the mpeg2 HD

Andrew: same deal here

DanishDVDfreak: Andrew Lets just leave it...You like DD better...I like DTS better



(All that was changed was spelling mistakes.)

[Danishdvdfreak]

If you read closely, you will notice that I wrote "I think that..." as in "thats my oppinion"

I dont get why you think im arguing whether or not DD uses better compression...im NOT. Dolby´s compression IS better, but as I tried to tell you, I dont think compression is good. I believe that no or little compression is much better that a lot of compression.

In a perfect world, we wouldn´t need to compress the soundtracks, and I hope that even you would aggree on that. We dont have DVD´s that can store all that data, so they have to use compression. Dolby has found a way to compress their soundtracks to take up less space, yay for them. But DTS was never INTENDED to be compressed like Dolby...thats what you dont get. As I said to you (or maybe you were logged off at the time) is that Dolby was compressed 12:1 and DTS was compressed 3:1. Thats just logically bound to keep more data than DD. And I hope you wont argue that DTS still does have higher bitrate. Again this has nothing to do with compression. Dolby just cant be over 1400 kbps like DTS can...those are facts...Dolby can if I remeber correctly only go to 640 kpbs, but they cant even go that high on DVD today, so they are about 368kbps or 448kbps (I dont remember the exact numbers, but I ballparked it...its not far off anyway). DTS on the other hand can go to 1568 or something in that ballpark. Unfortunatly, the studios don´t want this because it takes up too much space, so most DTS DVD´s are half bitrate 768 or something like that. Thats still a lot more data than Dolby has.

If you want to tell me that you cant hear the difference, fine by me. Just dont tell me that I cant, because I most certainly can. And if you want to hear the difference, listen to a full bitrate DTS track and compare it to the Dolby track (and yes, there are mixes outthere that are the same for both, so dont give me that)

But again...you prefer Dolby, and I prefer DTS. I see no need to flame me for having a different oppinion

And just in case you edited for spelling mistakes to flame me even more, I´ll just say that you missed some

[Sycho]

I dont get why you think im arguing whether or not DD uses better compression...im NOT. Dolby´s compression IS better, but as I tried to tell you, I dont think compression is good. I believe that no or little compression is much better that a lot of compression.

just because it's ahigher bitrate don't not mean that it does not throw away as much.

In a perfect world, we wouldn´t need to compress the soundtracks, and I hope that even you would aggree on that. We dont have DVD´s that can store all that data, so they have to use compression. Dolby has found a way to compress their soundtracks to take up less space, yay for them. But DTS was never INTENDED to be compressed like Dolby...thats what you dont get. As I said to you (or maybe you were logged off at the time) is that Dolby was compressed 12:1 and DTS was compressed 3:1. Thats just logically bound to keep more data than DD. And I hope you wont argue that DTS still does have higher bitrate. Again this has nothing to do with compression. Dolby just cant be over 1400 kbps like DTS can...those are facts...Dolby can if I remeber correctly only go to 640 kpbs, but they cant even go that high on DVD today, so they are about 368kbps or 448kbps (I dont remember the exact numbers, but I ballparked it...its not far off anyway). DTS on the other hand can go to 1568 or something in that ballpark. Unfortunatly, the studios don´t want this because it takes up too much space, so most DTS DVD´s are half bitrate 768 or something like that. Thats still a lot more data than Dolby has.

bitrate does not equal more data, look at mpeg2 vs mpeg4, mpeg4 could have half the bitrate of mpeg2 but it can look like mpeg2 verison.

If you want to tell me that you cant hear the difference, fine by me. Just dont tell me that I cant, because I most certainly can. And if you want to hear the difference, listen to a full bitrate DTS track and compare it to the Dolby track (and yes, there are mixes outthere that are the same for both, so dont give me that)

I have heard the difference, than I looked into why there are differences. I found out that most are remixes, while many are the same mix just louder.

And just in case you edited for spelling mistakes to flame me even more, I´ll just say that you missed some

I fixed spelling mistakes for both of us.

[SeanL]

I don't think I need to mention that this is not the place for yet ANOTHER DD vs DTS debate, do I?

[Sycho]

Originally Posted by SeanL

I don't think I need to mention that this is not the place for yet ANOTHER DD vs DTS debate, do I?

it is not nessary to mention that, but I was trying to educate someone, but it would seem they don't want to learn. I also sent you a PM, and would appreciate it if you read it.

[Danishdvdfreak]

Just to finish this once and for all from my point of view, Im gonna play the "Let´s aggree to dis-aggree" card once again.

Im sticking to my oppinion, and might I say, I share this with a lot of others as well. You may save your "education" for someone else

[esc]

here it is... massive sections have been taken out as the chat wandered ALOT, got into US/Canada bilingual cases, Bootlegging, r1 vs r2 vs r3 ... then just degenerated into what... i dont know. i feel like i should comment and i really wish i had been there now that read through all this, but i just wont say anything for now.

Zardoz coming up this thursday and JFK coming soon. check the chat schedule in the stickythread at the top of Film Discussion for deatils on upcoming films.

there were a few cool links mentioned throughout the chat.. just search for www in your browser if you want to find them without having to scroll through 1000 lines of text.



sycho says:
so who else is online right now
DanishDVDfreak filling in for esc says:
5 or 6 right now
DanishDVDfreak filling in for esc says:
Maybe I should find my Matrix disc...
DanishDVDfreak filling in for esc says:
commentary warnings...IN THREE FUCKING LANGUAGES !!
sycho says:
is the pal speed difference going to make a difference in syncronization?
DanishDVDfreak says:
For someone with PAL DVD´s, sure
sycho says:
don't you have pal over there?
DanishDVDfreak says:
Yes...but not on MY DVD´s
DanishDVDfreak says:
95 percent of them are NTSC
sycho says:
nice
DanishDVDfreak says:
Danish versions suck for the most part
DanishDVDfreak says:
I prefer NTSC over PAL any day
DanishDVDfreak says:
PAL has better resolution, but it doesn´t help when its made from a NTSC master
DanishDVDfreak says:
We will start The Matrix chat in about 10 minutes. Please change font
to sz8 bold
DanishDVDfreak says:
Yeah...we can start any time now...Just setting up my matrix
sycho says:
10
sycho says:
9
sycho says:
8
sycho says:
go!
Surfingelectrode says:
So, which release of this is everyone watching
sycho says:
ulitmate

DanishDVDfreak says:
just so u know, The Ultimate Matrix starts when u hit play in the menu
Surfingelectrode says:
We need to watch the sequels sometime.
Surfingelectrode says:
Lots of discussion there.
Surfingelectrode says:
Other things that would be great to watch: JFK (If so, do it on a Fri or
Sat because of it's loooong 3 hr length, Natural Born Killers
sycho says:
never seen it
Surfingelectrode says:
Nice green.
Surfingelectrode says:
I love that music thing they do in the trilogy.
Surfingelectrode says:
Coding.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Havent seen the Ultimate yet
sycho says:
This is my screensaver.
Surfingelectrode says:
The whole sequence from the beginning of the movie to when Trinity hangs up.
sycho says:
i don't think the line was clean
DanishDVDfreak says:
We all watching the Ultimate version ?
sycho says:
i am
DanishDVDfreak says:
Me too
DanishDVDfreak says:
Here comes Mr. Smith
sycho says:
the transer is fucking unreal, just like the matrix itself
DanishDVDfreak says:
This is a MUCH nicer transfer
sycho says:
slight imporvment in audio as well
Surfingelectrode says:
Bullet time!
DanishDVDfreak says:
I hate bullet time now
Surfingelectrode says:
After all of the fuckers who stole it.
Surfingelectrode says:
At the time, it was amazing.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Yep...its in EVERY action movie today
sycho says:
computer sub just bottomed out
DanishDVDfreak says:
It RULED at the time...no doubt about it
Surfingelectrode says:
Most overspoofed visual effect ever?
sycho says:
lightsaber?
Surfingelectrode says:
Long juuuummp
DanishDVDfreak says:
I think this might take the crown
sycho says:
yup
sycho says:
very impossible ah?
DanishDVDfreak says:
MAN this transfer is good
sycho says:
unreal
DanishDVDfreak says:
And Im watching on a computerscreen
Surfingelectrode says:
Light saber spoofs mainly in SW spoofs, which there aren't too many
of. Off the top of my head.... Spaceballs and Jay and Silent Bob
Strike Back.
sycho says:
i'd like to see a dump truck do a real burn out
Surfingelectrode says:
The performaances in these movies are great.
DanishDVDfreak says:
So...how many can watch "Mr.Smith" in anything without adding "Mr.
Anderson" at the end of EVERY sentence in your mind ?
Surfingelectrode says:
Whatever, Mr. Anderson.
DanishDVDfreak says:
lol
DanishDVDfreak says:
This almost looks as good as the HDTV version
Surfingelectrode says:
Neo's room number is 101 (The One?), Trinity 303.
sycho says:
is this the same place where they go to get the neravingy [ merovinchian ? ] in the 3rd one?
Surfingelectrode says:
No.
sycho says:
ok
Surfingelectrode says:
The one in MRevo is a S&M place.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Really ? Looks like a restaurant
sycho says:
What is The Matrix?
DanishDVDfreak says:
A movie ?
Surfingelectrode says:
It's weird seeing Ted as the...savior...of the humans.
sycho says:
Ted?
DanishDVDfreak says:
hehe...true
Surfingelectrode says:
Totally, dudes!
DanishDVDfreak says:
As in Bill & Ted
DanishDVDfreak says:
Bill & Teds exellent adventures ?
DanishDVDfreak says:
Bogus Journey
Surfingelectrode says:
Bogus Journey?
Surfingelectrode says:
a TV cartoon?
DanishDVDfreak says:
No...a movie
sycho says:
ya, i'm only 18
Surfingelectrode says:
No. they had a TV cartoon.
Surfingelectrode says:
They were in the '90s I believe.
DanishDVDfreak says:
It WAS 2 movies
Surfingelectrode says:
and a cartoon.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Allright...it STARTED as movies then
DanishDVDfreak says:
Or did it ?
Surfingelectrode says:
Yeah.
Surfingelectrode says:
Then Cartoon. And soon to be a totally awesome 3-disc collection.
DanishDVDfreak says:
You think ?
sycho says:
ok, i got popcorn stuck in my teech, brb
DanishDVDfreak says:
Does anyone know of some custom covers for The ultimate Matrix
collection ? I dont waht to keep them in that plastic thingy
Surfingelectrode says:
You have the giftset?
DanishDVDfreak says:
Yes
Surfingelectrode says:
Dunno then. I have the regular one. I like the covers on it. A bit flimsy.
Surfingelectrode says:
Foreshadowing...
sycho says:
not many people noticed the tv sets
DanishDVDfreak says:
I had to get the giftset for the Neo bust ... Im a collection whore
Surfingelectrode says:
I have the Monster Legacy giftset.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Put "Limited edition" on it, Im there
Surfingelectrode says:
The busts are right next to me.
DanishDVDfreak says:
I have the Alien head...the ULTIMATE DVD set
Surfingelectrode says:
Fuck you man!
Surfingelectrode says:
http://www.kontraband.com/show/show....006&CAT=movies

Watch that when the movie is over. It is by far the funniest spoof of this movie and this scene I have ever seen.
sycho says:
ring
sycho says:
ring
sycho says:
ri...
sycho says:
what is happening to me?
You MUST watch that spoof.
DanishDVDfreak says:
will do
sycho says:
aah, i got the popcorn out of my teeth
DanishDVDfreak says:
I dont eat popcorn
sycho says:
freak
DanishDVDfreak says:
Chestburster !
sycho says:
no, alien was weeks ago.
DanishDVDfreak says:
freaky shit
sycho says:
you have to see it for your self
sycho says:
best line ever
DanishDVDfreak says:
Take the red pill !!!
Surfingelectrode says:
Great shot.
sycho says:
fool
DanishDVDfreak says:
It was just a jellybean
DanishDVDfreak says:
I love Pantoliano
Surfingelectrode says:
Or, as the philosopher said.... "Take 'em both, that's what we did in
the '70s, right?!"
sycho says:
sure, it was part of a trace program to disrupe his input output carrier signals
Surfingelectrode says:
His yell turns into a computer sound.
Surfingelectrode says:
Someone modded their computer case to add one of these pods in it.
Surfingelectrode says:
It's lit and has the goo and human, and everything.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Damn !
Surfingelectrode says:
this was the Last shot of the filming.
sycho says:
wow, the transfer still looks fucking awsome to me
DanishDVDfreak says:
I haven´t even seen any of the extras on this set
Surfingelectrode says:
I've watched 'em all!
Surfingelectrode says:
Took me a week!

Surfingelectrode says:

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/regen_1.htm

link to the modded case

DanishDVDfreak says:
That case is SICK !! Holy crap
Surfingelectrode says:
Yeah, it's incredible.

Surfingelectrode says:
http://abstract.cs.washington.edu/~r...html.gz?D0=140

here's the rooftop scene (the bullet time stuff) in an ASCII MOVIE.

sycho says:
the sound of the lights just make it so much more immersive ah?
DanishDVDfreak says:
The fight scene !!
sycho says:
jump time
sycho says:
free your mind!
DanishDVDfreak says:
Cool !
sycho says:
wow!
sycho says:
sub bottomed out nemuours times there
Surfingelectrode says:
Nice CG
sycho says:
warner has some of the best
sycho says:
but i think fox always has the best cgi, sony/tristart/clumbia has the worst
DanishDVDfreak says:
That shot reminds me of Star Wars
Surfingelectrode says:
I really can't think of anything that hasn't already been said of this movie.
sycho says:
EMP?
DanishDVDfreak says:
No...the cockpit shot
sycho says:
yuch, there is sewers
sycho says:
that was close!
sycho says:
wow, i still can't get over how good this looks, i only watched it
once so far, and wow
Surfingelectrode says:
About three times for me.
Surfingelectrode says:
More, because of the commentaries;.
DanishDVDfreak says:
I just scanned through the ultimate one
sycho says:
and the 10 discs for the price of about 2 movies
Surfingelectrode says:
Yeah.
Surfingelectrode says:
Great deal.
sycho says:
same with BTTF now
Surfingelectrode says:
10 Movies for the price of 1 1/2 Ray LEs.
DanishDVDfreak says:
I paid about $100 for the Matrix gift set
Surfingelectrode says:
I paid 40 or 50 for the regular.
sycho says:
$70 CND with tax
sycho says:
is the layer change in the same spot on this disc? casue it's changed
on reloaded
DanishDVDfreak says:
I dont know...I dont remember where is was on the first one
Surfingelectrode says:
Andy and Linda sure did hit the mark with these movies.
sycho says:
i think the linda think was a big scam
sycho says:
wasn't it?
DanishDVDfreak says:
Did he do the sex change yet ?
Surfingelectrode says:
Not known.
DanishDVDfreak says:
PR stunt
sycho says:
a bad one, at that
DanishDVDfreak says:
yep
sycho says:
what kind of word is oracal, it sounds like a kind of fish
DanishDVDfreak says:
One of the best PR stunts in recent movie history...The Blair Witch
Surfingelectrode says:
I can hear it now... "Hey, bro, I got a great idea! I'll pretend to
be having a sex change for some great PR!"
DanishDVDfreak says:
Not the right country to do it in hehe
DanishDVDfreak says:
Its Oracle, right ?
Surfingelectrode says:
Yeah.
DanishDVDfreak says:
An all knowing thingy
Surfingelectrode says:
An old cookie-baking woman.
DanishDVDfreak says:
Keanu does a lot of movies with all knowing mamals...
sycho says:
like?
DanishDVDfreak says:
Johnny Mnemonic it was an all knowing dolphin
sycho says:
there is no spoon ... stupid kid
DanishDVDfreak says:
There is no Uri Geller either
sycho says:
that topic end a while back didn't it?
Surfingelectrode says:
Check this site out... http://www.truthofthespoon.net
DanishDVDfreak says:
It still amazes me...you can see EVERYTHING in this transfer !!
sycho says:
Check this site out...
http://www.billytalent.com
sycho says:
indeed
Surfingelectrode says:
Deja vu
Surfingelectrode says:
1:20:20
Surfingelectrode says:
In the screenplay, Mouse does not use the tommy guns.... He simply gets shot.
DanishDVDfreak says:
They´re in the walls !!
DanishDVDfreak says:
Cool
DanishDVDfreak says:
it works in the movie though
sycho says:
the part with him shotting does look kinda stupid
Surfingelectrode says:
Yeah.
Surfingelectrode says:
Better than just being shot.
Surfingelectrode says:
Yeah as in, it works.
DanishDVDfreak says:
great fight
Surfingelectrode says:
I'll be going in a few minutes. Does anyone know what we are watching next week?
DanishDVDfreak says:
I think it was Zardoz?!
DanishDVDfreak says:
I wont be here for that
sycho says:
awsome shot there with switch and the chick
Surfingelectrode says:
Same here.
DanishDVDfreak says:
I hate that movie
Surfingelectrode says:
I don't think we have anything lined up for afterwards.
Surfingelectrode says:
If esc comes back later on... could you please relay to him that JFK
would be an excellent movie to watch on a Friday or a Satuday?
DanishDVDfreak says:
Sure...but why dont post it on the boards ?
Surfingelectrode says:
True.
Surfingelectrode says:
WIll do. Thanks for the great chat and for the envy (>_>). I won't be
here for next week. Never heard of "Zardoz". See you all later!

surfingelectrode has bailed out of the conversation.

DanishDVDfreak says:
1:30:30
sycho says:
chapter 29 coming up soon
sycho says:
a cancer of this palent
sycho says:
guns lots of guns
DanishDVDfreak says:
lots of GUNS
DanishDVDfreak says:
That´ll do it
sycho says:
wait for it
sycho says:
wait for it
sycho says:
it's coming
sycho says:
just around the corner
sycho says:
hold on
sycho says:
wait for it
sycho says:
it' coming
sycho says:
just a sec
sycho says:
wait
sycho says:
right now
sycho says:
yes!
DanishDVDfreak says:
Why isn´t this in DTS ?!?
sycho says:
cause dts is usless
DanishDVDfreak says:
????
sycho says:
waner proved it
DanishDVDfreak says:
Warner is just to stupid to use it
sycho says:
the remixed tracks for about 5 moives and they sounds the same
DanishDVDfreak says:
Then they dont do it properly !
sycho says:
they are the only ones who knew how to properly encode the tracks
DanishDVDfreak says:
SOME DTS tracks dont sound better or just like the DD, but for the
most part I think DTS is much better
sycho says:
dts is a different mix
sycho says:
thats why you THINK it sounds better
DanishDVDfreak says:
Yes, I know that, but I have heard comparisons and the difference was obvious
DanishDVDfreak says:
And DTS is not compressed like DD is
sycho says:
bullshit, it uses shity compression and can't get the bitrate low as
dolby digital
DanishDVDfreak says:
I dont aggree with that. I know they dont compress it like DD, but I
still think it sounds much better most of the time
DanishDVDfreak says:
And low bitrate is NOT good

Sycho has left the conversation.

DanishDVDfreak says:
On laserdisc, DD would be on 1 analog track, while DTS was on both
digital tracks
DanishDVDfreak says:
the higher the bitrate, the better the sound
DanishDVDfreak says:
DTS is not supposed to be compressed like DD you know
DanishDVDfreak says:
Its the same with picture quality...you can compress a DVD to take up
much less space, but not without losing detail
DanishDVDfreak says:
Yay...watching by myself now

Sycho has come back into the conversation.

DanishDVDfreak says:
Anyone here anymore ?
sycho says:
Well, if you continue to say dts is better, I'm leaving again
DanishDVDfreak says:
Hmm...It is a matter of taste...Im not saying that you cant like DD
better...im just stating facts about the compression
sycho says:
and that dolby digital uses a completely different and better
compression. know the facts first
DanishDVDfreak says:
Ok...listen...compression is NOT good allright ? When you compress
ANYTHING, you lessen the quality...DTS is NOT supposed to be
compressed like DD.. DD is compressed at about 1:12...DTS at about
1:3...that makes a higher bitrate, and therefore keeps more
information
DanishDVDfreak says:
Im NOT saying that DTS is better always...it depends on the mix...and
it depends on the setup and people personal reference. But dont you
aggree that the higher the bitrate, the higher the quality ?
sycho says:
no, because its compeletly different codec strucre
DanishDVDfreak says:
Allright...if you are gonne use that tone, I just think we should end this
sycho says:
mpeg2 hd is about 20mbps and wm9 is around 8mbps, but wm9 can look
better then the mpeg2 hd
sycho says:
same deal here
DanishDVDfreak says:
Lets just leave it...You like DD better...I like DTS better
sycho says:
fuck you, you're wrong

DanishDVDfreak says:
Allright...im ending this...this is just stupid...I dont stay up all
night to be cussed at by some juvenile kid
DanishDVDfreak says:

End of chat


Sycho has left the conversation.