Nudity in film.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Dilmo

Okay. After she received breast implants, she admitted she wanted to show them off. Some actresses loose weight and want to show poeple their "new selves". Do you know how detailed a contract is? It even get down to such a minute thing as showing half a butt cheek. The actors need to take resposibility for themselves. It's not our concern. Do you or I make more money than them? I would think no. There are more important things in life than what we see on the screen.

What does the money they make have to do with anything?

Originally Posted by Dilmo

Also, nudity brings much bigger bucks.

Does it? Give me exmples of where a nude scene made the film more money.

Originally Posted by Dilmo

Now, because of that statement does not mean they are whores.

I never said they were whores. I was pointing to reaper's definition.

-PH

[Dilmo]

piratehunter, I am trying. Demi Moore was raised millions for doing nudity in Striptease. It is a common fact. It is true. EVERY actress, if their contract is written up correctly, get more for NUDITY! I did not make the agreements, but it IS true. It's time to see how things just are. If they do it for money, call them whores or whatever, but you CANNOT dispute the facts.

Yes, Striptease bombed at the boxoffice, but the video rentals went sky high.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Remember that film "Havoc" that came out last year? It had Anne Hathaway topless and all I heard about was that fact that Anne is finally showing the goods. I never even heard if it was any good or that it was written by Stephen Gaghan. This is what I’m talking about.

We can't decide what is appropriate for film based on what someone might abuse. Somebody could watch the lobby scene from The Matrix over and over again until they feel like killing a whole bunch of kids in a school, but I don't fault The Matrix for that. Somebody might rub his dick raw masturbating to Hathaway's tits, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good movie or needed for the scene. When people go on and on about someone's tits in a movie, roll your eyes and judge them and be on your way. Don't start talking about actresses morals and being taken advantage of... they're big girls, they know what they're getting into. It's not your job to be their Father.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Dilmo

piratehunter, I am trying. Demi Moore was raised millions for doing nudity in Striptease. It is a common fact. It is true. EVERY actress, if their contract is written up correctly, get more for NUDITY! I did not make the agreements, but it IS true. It's time to see how things just are. If they do it for money, call them whores or whatever, but you CANNOT dispute the facts.

Yes, Striptease bombed at the boxoffice, but the video rentals went sky high.

Sorry, I misread you. I thought you were saying that the film gets bigger bucks for nudity. I brought that up earlier that theatre sales and DVD sales are 2 different things. It’s one of my fears if they close all the theatres that it’ll be nothing but STV Olsen Twin films and porn. Which may end up being the same thing?

-PH

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

We can't decide what is appropriate for film based on what someone might abuse. Somebody could watch the lobby scene from The Matrix over and over again until they feel like killing a whole bunch of kids in a school, but I don't fault The Matrix for that. Somebody might rub his dick raw masturbating to Hathaway's tits, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good movie or needed for the scene. When people go on and on about someone's tits in a movie, roll your eyes and judge them and be on your way. Don't start talking about actresses morals and being taken advantage of... they're big girls, they know what they're getting into. It's not your job to be their Father.

I never said that they were being taken advantage of and I've already addressed the fact that the online community is partly to blame for the abuse of some of these films.

I think that there are films like Havoc that seemed to get a lot of bad reviews. My point is that I wonder if Hathaway thought she was making something that was worth her picture being on every celeb skin site on the web. I wonder if she understood that more people would DL the pics than watch the film.

I'm not trying to be their father, but as someone who is concerned with the artists that I have respect for, I have an active interest in this issue. If I get the chance to make a film and I have a sex scene, you'll be damn sure, knowing what I know about the net, that I will be concerned with my actors well being.

-PH

[reapersaurus]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Wow, this discussion really took off, didn't it?

Great topic! Kudos to piratehunter...

When me and PH throw down, and others join in, it's usually a lively/interesting topic.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by reapersaurus

When me and PH throw down, and others join in, it's usually a lively/interesting topic.

Yeah! Where are the rest of the Filers? Bring it on bitches!

-PH

[Dilmo]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

My point is that I wonder if Hathaway thought she was making something that was worth her picture being on every celeb skin site on the web. I wonder if she understood that more people would DL the pics than watch the film.

Maybe not, but she knew this would break her from he "Princess" role. We have to believe these people are NOT naive. I'm sure they had more than a GED education. Give them credit for their choices. We don't have to look if we don't want to. I, admit, choose to. It was their choice. You don't have to go to a porn site for images. I don't.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

1. I will argue with you about Keira being Hotter than Halle.

Ok, we can do that in another thread.

3. I guess the problem is that I’m thinking about the actor/actress from the standpoint of them wanting to make art and money not being an issue. I’m sure there are many actresses that would take the increase in pay to bare it all, but I’m more concerned with the person that doesn’t take into consideration the type of film they’re in. Take for example, Halle Berry. She was nude in Swordfish, which was a fun movie, but I heard more about her nude scene than I did about the film. I just wonder if she realized that and how she felt. Is that something that she’s going to look back on and be proud of? Does she realize that more people probably downloaded the captures than actually watched the film?

I don't have any issues with you asking these questions but you must realize the answers are really none of your or my business and we have no idea of what went through her head when the topless scene was mentioned. Also, I might be wrong but Swordfish was the first time we got to see her "parts", and she made several movies before Swordfish where she didn't bare anything of "interest" so there was definitely some curiosity built-up surrounding Swordfish. The more important question I pose to you is: did her topless scene contribute significantly to the box office take?

I also wonder how many people didn't go see Closer when they heard that Natalie wasn't going to be nude. I remember seeing post after post about how "pissed" people were over that. At that point, I think the nudity is a mistake. It's a distraction from the film itself.

Nope, the issue isn't nudity, it's the viewing public. It's the people wanting to see celebs they find hot shed their clothes. The issue is "us" not "them" (the movie makers).

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by mighty mint

It is interesting that the discussion focuses on Halle in Swordfish (useless nudity to the point of blatant "look at these glass cutters staring at you.") and yet in Monster's Ball she left almost nothing to anyone's imagination. While the director's cut of MB might have been unnecessary gratuitous nudity I did feel that the sex scene, as graphic as it was, did further the story and the character development.

I didn't think the sex scene in MB contributed to the story as much as you imply. In fact, I was disappointed in it for I felt it was "forced". It felt like someone decided Halle Berry "needed" to be in some 'hot' or 'torrid' sex scene, and I didn't think that was needed in MB. I also felt that scene was much too long, and that's coming from someone who would have loved to see her in a prolonged sex scene.

I equate the relevance of the sex scene in MB with the relevance of the prolonged scene with Neo and Trinity in Matrix Reloaded. It just wasn't really needed or at least for not as long as it was in the movie.

Swordfish really cheapened her with the little top shot she did and yet Monter's Ball seems to have made her a star.

I don't see this. I don't think her sex scene in MB made her a "star". She was acclaimed for her work in "Introduction to Dorothy Dandridge" and I think she made a good Bond girl in "Die Another Day".

I agree that certain movies we expect a certain amount of realism but I do see Pirate's point that at sometime you have to wonder if the actors regret poor film choices when they reveal their lovelies.

We can wonder all we want about this, but that's something for the actors to deal with and none of our concern.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

Nudity happens in life and it should happen on screen. I don't judge actresses for doing it, and I don't judge directors for asking for it. What irritates me is people making such a huge deal out of seeing some tits that it's a national event when Keira Knightley takes her top off. The United States has this obsession with sex and nudity, but we repress it like fucking crazy. You don't need to worry about Keira Knightley's moral fiber Pirate Hunter, she's old enough to make her own decisions and from what I've read in interviews she couldn't care less about you seeing her freakin' breasts.

I don't mean to be confrontational, I just think when you make such a huge deal about it and say "she shouldn't have done this," you cause the exact attention you're complaining about. People get excited about her tits because she's not supposed to show them, not because we've never seen tits before. Repression like a mother fucker.

I'm with Moogle on this. Great post.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I’m not worried about Keira. She was just being used as an example. I know she’s fine with nudity and that tells me that should probably won’t regret doing it. I’m just talking about the general performer who does a nude scene thinking it is going to be for the sake of art and then the film ends up being crap and her scene ends up on the internet.

Again, that's really none of our business.

If the actor doesn't want to do the scene, they can choose not to do the scene. There might be positive or negative consequences to be dealt with but those are their consequences to deal with, not ours. Besides, if the scene is to be shot with nudity, I'm sure someone willing to do it could be found.

I don’t think I’m making a “huge” deal. I’m just asking questions and stating my opinion. I’m not saying that nudity should not be in film. I’m just saying it should be done right.

I also think you're confusing the issue. Nudity being "done right" isn't the choice of the talent. That's up to the director to do, ultimately. The director is the one directing the scene and is the one who decides what is appropriate for the scene and what isn't. Keira didn't decide how much of her chest would work best, the director did. There might have been some negotiation if she wasn't comfortable but if that wasn't the case, the director is the one making the decisions you're questioning. However, you're implying the actor is the one involved in this decision and that's not necessarily the case.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I don’t blame them, but I think it’s something that should be discussed. I think the writer and the director should talk to the actor and ask them is it worth it to you for the sake of this film?

What??? The director will consult with the talent on what is appropriate for the sake of the film? I think you're mistaken.

I do look at the quality and need for it as we discussed before. I think Young Adam is a great example of how nudity can derail a film. There was so much hoopla over the fact that Ewan’s penis was on screen for like 2 seconds. I know that this is more of a problem in the US, but the focus should be on the film and not a body part. Do I think Young Adam needed the nudity; yes. So the problem here is has more to do with childishness and censorship than it does with nudity in the film. So my question is; is it worth it?

I don't see it this way. I think the issue is with those wanting to see naked celebs in mainstream movies.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Dilmo

I helped!

Ok, kudos to Dilmo too.

Peace...

[supercutz]

Originally Posted by Dilmo

Would you rather see you favorite actress topless, or have her neck slit open in a film?

Yes.

I require both sex and violence in my movies because both represent freedom of speech and expression through art. That's really all there is to it for me.

[Pirate]

Tom,

I'm still around and I fully plan on replying to all your posts, but I have to sign off, so first thing tomorrow.

-PH

[plissken99]

I've skimmed this thread, so I speak generally. One thing I have learned about females in my criminally limited experiences, is that beutiful women do have a desire to show off their stuff, some bury that thought deeper than others. I've talked to many pretty girls who've toyed with the idea of stripping because they have a stunning figure. My point is, just because an actress shows some skin in a movie, doesn't necissarily make her a victim.

I'm all for nudity in film, and lots of it. Really,the scenes which always bug me; it's right after this couple has had sex, their often sweaty afterwords. Then the actress sits up in bed, and hides her breasts with a blanket, even thought the only guy who would see, just got done banging her brains out. That to me makes no sense %99.9 of the time. The 0.01% being if the female character is shy.

And when women in movies get up in the morning, the least their wearing is a nighty. Of the women I've 'known', the majority of them sleep in the nude. I guess what I'm saying, is that it takes me out of a movie when it's obvious they have a scene where the actress wasn't comfortable with nudity, or their going for a PG-13 rating.

Nudity is a natural thing, and this country is juvenile for denying that. Janet Jackson really set things back progress wise.

[elwood731]

Originally Posted by plissken99

And when women in movies get up in the morning, the least their wearing is a nighty. Of the women I've 'known', the majority of them sleep in the nude.

I swear, for the most part this thread sounds like a bunch of men sitting around whining about how they want to see more tits. Take this comment for instance. First, most women I know do not sleep in the nude. They sleep in some form of pajamas or a t-shirt and panties. But I'll write that up to us knowing different women. Second, most women do not wake up with perfect hair and makeup. Most women do not look like Halle Berry or Keria Knightly, either. I love that people will moan about Keria not showing her boobs as not being realistic but don't see any problem with a movie being filled with women that look like her.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I never said that they were being taken advantage of...

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I think that there are films like Havoc that seemed to get a lot of bad reviews. My point is that I wonder if Hathaway thought she was making something that was worth her picture being on every celeb skin site on the web. I wonder if she understood that more people would DL the pics than watch the film.

You keep acting like I'm not understanding you, when actually you're sending mixed messages. The actress being taken advantage of is exactly what you're talking about here. Poor little Anne Hathaway might not have understood that Dilmo would be spanking it to her naked body, or poor little Anne Hathaway thought she was making the next Godfather and sold her body almost unwillingly for a chance at true fame.

That's all a shitload of B.S.. Anne Hathaway knew damn well that men would be masturbating to her image. She knew damn well screen caps would be out there. She knew damn well a lot of the attention on the movie would be about her first nude scene. In the end, she either didn't care because they're just tits (good option), or she was such a whore she was willing to sacrifice her principles anyway (bad option). Either way it was poor little Anne Hathaway's choice, not Pirate Hunter's, and I don't see why you're so damned concerned about it.

Originally Posted by plissken99

Nudity is a natural thing, and this country is juvenile for denying that. Janet Jackson really set things back progress wise.

Thank you for repeating what I said earlier with a little more clarity. It's all repression, like I said. "Don't look at the tits, don't show the tits"... OH MY GOD SHE SHOWED HER TITS!!! I've had sex with a decent amount of women, and I've seen about a billion naked. I watch porn where cute little girls like Riley Mason take 10 cumshots on their face and smile for the camera. Tits are like watching Seaseme Street. Anne Hathaway probably feels about the same. The sad part is the people who make a huge deal out of it, or the people who judge her because of it. Make no mistake people, if no one got crazy about seeing breasts, girls would be walking around topless at Foodland. I fucking promise you.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by Dilmo

I helped!

Everybody who's contributed to this thread has helped.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Give me exmples of where a nude scene made the film more money.

Since there's no statistics for this sort of thing, we could go 'round and 'round arguing about this, but I suspecting Basic Instinct owe a lot of its boxoffice take to the nudity of Sharon Stone.

I'd also argue that the extra press given to movies like Swordfish and Wild Things because of the nudity didn't hurt their boxoffice. Even if people didn't go see those movies only for the nudity, the additional press coverage they received because of it certainly helped bring those movies to people's attention.

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I can see her really regretting it later.

This seems to be the leitmotif to most of your concerns regarding nudity in film. That you can see them regretting it later. How many documented instances are there of an actor or actress have regretted a nude scene? I can't think of any, but I haven't really kept track either.

And if there's none, or few, I don't see why you're so concerned about it. As many have already said, these people are all adults capable of making their own decisions. They don't need anyone to be their conscience.

Now, as for your concern that it cheapens the artform... there you may have a slight point. But I'd argue that most films with questionable nude scenes weren't high art to begin with, so it doesn't really matter.

KM

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Again, that's really none of our business.

If the actor doesn't want to do the scene, they can choose not to do the scene. There might be positive or negative consequences to be dealt with but those are their consequences to deal with, not ours. Besides, if the scene is to be shot with nudity, I'm sure someone willing to do it could be found.

People keep bringing this statement up, but I’m not sure the relevance. I never said it was any of our business; I’m speaking about hypothetical situations here. I can choose to watch a film, see a nude scene that I think is unneeded and wonder how the actor felt about it. There’s nothing more to it than that.

Originally Posted by tomdkat

What??? The director will consult with the talent on what is appropriate for the sake of the film? I think you're mistaken.

What are you saying here? Are you saying that I director would not talk to the actors about the nude scene?

-PH

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Moogleporn

You keep acting like I'm not understanding you, when actually you're sending mixed messages. The actress being taken advantage of is exactly what you're talking about here. Poor little Anne Hathaway might not have understood that Dilmo would be spanking it to her naked body, or poor little Anne Hathaway thought she was making the next Godfather and sold her body almost unwillingly for a chance at true fame.

That's all a shitload of B.S.. Anne Hathaway knew damn well that men would be masturbating to her image. She knew damn well screen caps would be out there. She knew damn well a lot of the attention on the movie would be about her first nude scene. In the end, she either didn't care because they're just tits (good option), or she was such a whore she was willing to sacrifice her principles anyway (bad option). Either way it was poor little Anne Hathaway's choice, not Pirate Hunter's, and I don't see why you're so damned concerned about it.

How am I sending mixed messages? I’m speaking hypothetically. I’m wondering about the actor’s intentions. I’m not sitting around worrying about Hathaway, I’m simply speculating on the decisions that lead to her nude scene.

And I’m not concerned about anything. Again, I’m speaking hypothetically.