XBOX 360 vs. PS3 vs. Wii: Game On!

[umainebearman]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

- I wish they didn't include Wii Play on the top 10. The only reason it's selling so well is because it comes with a Wii controller.

KM

How else are they supposed to get rid of the software?

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by umainebearman

How else are they supposed to get rid of the software?

Isn't Wii Play intended as an incentive to buy a second controller? Or was the game actually sold without a controller first before they bundled it?

KM

[littlebib]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

Isn't Wii Play intended as an incentive to buy a second controller? Or was the game actually sold without a controller first before they bundled it?

KM

No. It's always been a crappy game that you might as well get because it's only $10 more that the controller alone.

[Astrakan]

May NPD numbers:

TOP-SELLING HARDWARE - MAY 2008
Wii--675,100
Nintendo DS--452,600
PlayStation 3--208,700
Xbox 360--186,600
PlayStation Portable--182,300

TOP-SELLING SOFTWARE - MAY 2008
Title / Publisher / Units
1) Grand Theft Auto IV (X360) / Take-Two / 871,300
2) Mario Kart Wii w/ Wheel (WII) / Nintendo / 787,400
3) Wii Fit w/ Balance Board (WII) / Nintendo / 687,700
4) Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3) / Take-Two / 442,900
5) Wii Play w/ Remote (WII) / Nintendo / 294,600
6) Super Smash Bros. Brawl (WII) / Nintendo / 171,100
7) Iron Man (PS2) / Sega / 130,600
8) Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ Guitar (WII) / Activision / 116,800
9) Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness (DS) / Nintendo / 107,000
10) Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time (DS) / Nintendo / 102,000

Source: NPD: GTAIV defends sales throne - Xbox 360 News at GameSpot

[Astrakan]

As a gamer I'm starting to get a little concerned about the Wii's continued success.

At first I dismissed its enormous sales figures as just a passing fad. Obviously I was wrong on that one.

Then I figured it didn't much matter how many consoles it moved when the game sales weren't there, since without game sales the Wii wouldn't have the power to alter what type of games are made. That may soon change.

Five of the top ten games this month are on the Wii, totalling two million games vs. its nearest competitor: the 360's 800k.

On top of that, the Wii sold 3.3 times as many consoles as the PS3, its nearest competitor if you don't count the DS - which outsold the PS3 with a margin of 2:1. Although that's not a fair comparison.

Anyway, the point is that I really don't want gaming to go in the direction of the Wii. Yet a few more months of this and that's where we're headed.

KM

[Astrakan]

And here's an article related to the above May NPD numbers:

Originally Posted by Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot

Analysts baffled by GTA-hardware disconnect
Industry watchers scratch heads about Rockstar hit's inability to spark Xbox 360 and PS3 system sales.

When Grand Theft Auto IV was released in late April, analysts expected the highly anticipated Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 game to inspire gamers on the sidelines of the current-generation console wars to jump into the fray and pick up a system. Even though hardware sales from April and May didn't reflect the expected influx of new PS3 and 360 owners, the industry-tracking NPD Group's own analyst is holding out hope for a GTA-driven bump in June's sales "due to gift-giving for Father's Day and graduations."

In notes to investors today, Wedbush Morgan Securities' Michael Pachter said he was again surprised at GTAIV's inability to drive hardware sales. And without new Xbox 360s and PS3s finding their ways into consumers' hands, the game could lose its sales momentum in a hurry.

Source, and the rest of the article: Analysts baffled by GTA-hardware disconnect - PlayStation 3 News at GameSpot

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by littlebib

No. It's always been a crappy game that you might as well get because it's only $10 more that the controller alone.

Which is exactly my point and the reason I wish it wasn't included in the top 10. I'm more interested in seeing what title placed in the 11th spot than to acknowledge the fact that new Wii owners are relatively likely to pick up an additional controller.

KM

[Iguana Man]

I would think the economy and price of the Wii are rather large factors at work here.

[Ruined]

Microsoft needs to get their shit together. The Arcade should be $249, the Premium $299, Elite $379. Their pricing right now outright sucks!

They also need to improve quality of customer support & the repair center. Too many idiots have been staffed since the RROD problem (all India outfarmed I believe) and stories of people returning 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc consoles to be repaired means the repair center isn't doing their job when they receive the console. Odds are they are massively overwhelmed, but they need to spend the money to rectify that unless they want to keep losing customers to Nintendo!

The upcoming DRM fix is a good step in the right direction, but they need to get those 65nm redesigned ATI chips out SOON!

[MooglePorn]

The Wii doesn't scare me TOO much because from what I understand many of them are not really used by gamers. They're being bought for offices, senior centers, bowling alleys and the like... there's a bar near here that has Wii Sports nights.

Combine that knowlede with the fact that "hardcore" games on the system sell like crap... like No More Heroes... and you can see why the VAST majority of big releases are still for the "2nd and 3rd place" consoles. Basically the Wii is not a game system, it's a mass market toy that also plays some games for real gamers. Less than half its systems are being used on a weekly basis to play real video games.

Good to see the PS3 rising more and more... it really is a great system. Hopefully BOTH systems, the 360 and PS3, get a price cut for Christmas which, when partnered with MGS4, GTA4 and GoW2, will lead to massive sales.

Does Wii even have a game for this Christmas?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

massive sales

I think the PS3 will still be too expensive for massive sales especially with the gas prices. 360 if it drops to 249 for a NICE bundle - or Arcade for 199 - has a shot, though, IMO.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

The Wii doesn't scare me TOO much because from what I understand many of them are not really used by gamers.

My primary point is that this is the first month that Nintendo has dominated BOTH the hardware and the software charts. I'm crossing my fingers that that won't continue to be the case.

Cause if Wii games keep taking half of the top 10, you can bet it will have some kind of impact on the types of games devs choose to make.

KM

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

My primary point is that this is the first month that Nintendo has dominated BOTH the hardware and the software charts. I'm crossing my fingers that that won't continue to be the case.

Cause if Wii games keep taking half of the top 10, you can bet it will have some kind of impact on the types of games devs choose to make.

KM

Remember they were mostly first party games, though. If third party publishers get snubbed by Wii users constantly it won't matter if Nintendo is in the software charts.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

My primary point is that this is the first month that Nintendo has dominated BOTH the hardware and the software charts. I'm crossing my fingers that that won't continue to be the case.

Cause if Wii games keep taking half of the top 10, you can bet it will have some kind of impact on the types of games devs choose to make.

KM

Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I think that's all Mario Kart and Wii Play. More "mature" games, FPS and such, do not sell at all on the system.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I think that's all Mario Kart and Wii Play. More "mature" games, FPS and such, do not sell at all on the system.

Sure, and that's part of my point. Why make a mature games for the 360/PS3 when you can make a Wii game that will sell four times as many copies?

Obviously I'm exaggerating the danger. I don't think all devs will suddenly jump ship and solely develop for the Wii, partly because of Ruined's point above. But if the current set of NPD numbers becomes a trend, I do think devs will dedicate resources away from the kinds of games I enjoy towards the kinds of games selling in droves on the Wii.

And to repeat: I realize I am probably overrecting and jumping the gun. Next month we'll probably be back to the Wii ruling the hardware charts and the 360/PS3 ruling the software charts. The above few posts are mostly what-if scenarios. But to my mind a pretty scary what-if...

KM

[MooglePorn]

I think the success of smaller mini-game collections is only relative to their budgets though... I read something about "Carnival Games" making money, but it only sold like 200,000 copies... Call of Duty 4 in comparison sold 10 million.

There might be smaller developers more enticed to go the Wii route, rather than making something like... Turning Point Fall of Liberty... but that's not a huge loss. I think a lot of smaller devs will stick to mature games anyway though, just out of passion for the medium.

I think the main worry is that if the Wii continues to dominate and wins the generation, Microsoft and Sony might modify their next consoles to be more Wii-like. If that means control-wise, I could deal. If it means family focus, it would suck. If it means no hardware advancement, it would REALLY suck.

[Derb]

Not surprising to me that the Wii is kicking sales charts asses for either hardware or software. It isn't a trend, its been going on for a long time now & the 360 & PS3 are just fine.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by Derb

Not surprising to me that the Wii is kicking sales charts asses for either hardware or software. It isn't a trend, its been going on for a long time now & the 360 & PS3 are just fine.

Uuuh.... two points:

1. That's what a trend is. Something that is going in a general direction. So to say something "isn't a trend, its been going on for a long time" is an oxymoron.

2. While the Wii has been doing alright software wise, this is the first time it's had five entries in the top ten. And the first time it's outsold the nearest competition by as much as it did. The only other month it's come close to this is when Smash Bros. launched. Then it outsold it's nearest competitor by a 2:1 margin, this time it was 3:1. Most months it is not even in the lead.

So yeah, I agree with you that it isn't a trend. At least not a long-running trend. My concerns are simply centered around the "what-if" scenario of it becoming a long-running trend.

KM

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

I think the success of smaller mini-game collections is only relative to their budgets though... I read something about "Carnival Games" making money, but it only sold like 200,000 copies... Call of Duty 4 in comparison sold 10 million.

The simple fact is that out of the top 10 in May, Wii games sold 2+ million units, 360 games sold 870,000 units and PS3 games sold 442,000 units. Even if you add up the 360 and the PS3 game sales you still come nowhere near touching the Wii. Hell, even if you add up all five games in the top 10 that are not Wii games, you're 400k short of beating the Wii.

Devs are in business to make money. If every month start yielding numbers like that, do you seriously think they wouldn't be looking to expand their production of Wii games?

To me the answer to that is simple, and the real question is: would they take resources away from their PS3/Xbox productions in order to focus on the Wii, or would they expand to allow for additional Wii developments?

Then there's also Ruined's comment about 1st vs. 3rd party games. It's a very valid point and one I hope devs are keeping in mind.

I think the main worry is that if the Wii continues to dominate and wins the generation, Microsoft and Sony might modify their next consoles to be more Wii-like. If that means control-wise, I could deal. If it means family focus, it would suck. If it means no hardware advancement, it would REALLY suck.

Yeah, that's definitely a concern too but not as immediate of one. Although I would consider it a bigger loss than if devs started scaling back on mature games. I don't have time to play all the games I want to play at it is so if there was a reduction in game production it wouldn't impact me that much. A neutered next gen though? That would be terrible.

KM

[MooglePorn]

STOP SCARING THE SHIT OUT OF ME!!!

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

Uuuh.... two points:

1. That's what a trend is. Something that is going in a general direction. So to say something "isn't a trend, its been going on for a long time" is an oxymoron.

2. While the Wii has been doing alright software wise, this is the first time it's had five entries in the top ten. And the first time it's outsold the nearest competition by as much as it did. The only other month it's come close to this is when Smash Bros. launched. Then it outsold it's nearest competitor by a 2:1 margin, this time it was 3:1. Most months it is not even in the lead.

So yeah, I agree with you that it isn't a trend. At least not a long-running trend. My concerns are simply centered around the "what-if" scenario of it becoming a long-running trend.

KM

1. Meant to post New Trend.
2. The Wii has been kicking all consoles asses in sales sinse inception.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by Derb

The Wii has been kicking all consoles asses in sales sinse inception.

Hardware: Yes. Software: Not at all.

If you have numbers to contradict that, I'm all ears.

KM

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

STOP SCARING THE SHIT OUT OF ME!!!

Mostly I'm just making a point and don't really think the situation is as dire as I'm making it out to seem. Although I do think there's cause for concern and that the next couple of years will be pretty interesting indeed, but the end of "mature" games (for lack of a better word) is long ways off, if it ever comes.

KM

[Astrakan]

June 2008 NPD numbers:

HARDWARE
Nintendo DS 783,000
Nintendo Wii 666,700
PlayStation 3 405,500
PSP 337,400
Xbox 360 219,800
PlayStation 2 188,800

SOFTWARE
1 Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (PS3) 774,600*
2 Guitar Hero On Tour (DS) 422,300
3 Ninja Gaiden II (360) 372,700
3 Wii Fit (Wii) 372,700
5 Wii Play (Wii) 359,100
6 Battlefield Bad Company (360) 346,800
7 Mario Kart Wii (Wii) 322,400
8 LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures (Wii) 294,500
9 LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures (DS) 267,800
10 LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventure (PS2) 260,300

Source:
MGS4 drives PS3 sales, but DS and Wii still in lead // News // GamesIndustry.biz
Metal Gear Solid 4 tops US June sales // News // GamesIndustry.biz

[Astrakan]

Random thoughts:

- Not too surprising to see MGS4 in the lead, as well as the boost it gave to the PS3. It'll be interesting to see if the console will remain high next month or if it'll go down to regular levels.

- The Wii's "only" got 4 out of 10 software titles, but that's still twice as many as its nearest competitor: Xbox 360

- The 360 keeps sinking lower and lower. Only 40k units more than the PS2...

KM

[umainebearman]

Well its not like June and July has been a real rockin software time. 2 high profile titles, Ninja Gaiden and MGS4, pretty sure the numbers will go up up up at the end of August and into Sept. when the big releases start coming in.

[MooglePorn]

I expect PS3 to beat 360 for Christmas... it's somewhat cheaper, has some amazing exclusives now, GTA is there for the casual crowd, and more importantly, most people who want a 360 already have one, and have been saving up for their PS3 for a year or more now.

I could be wrong though, of course.

[bloodstainedwings]

I got my xbox 360 Halo 3 edition September 25th 2007 I have 10 retail games 7 XBLA I love the 360 it has killer games, but like everyone else I also Want a ps3 soon for Blu Ray. I am dyeing to go Blu. I have had a Wii since lauch day and only have 5 games one of witch it came with system other cause there was nothing else worth getting at launch and another cause I i needed a new Wii-mote. As much as I love Mario Kart and Super Mario Galaxy I have yet to beat them need 7 more stars in Mario to get the min 60 stars. I dont see myslef playing it after i beast the storyline. Also I have not played much Mario Kart only beat 50cc played on tourney and battle match. There both killer games for the Wii sadly for me there the only good games. I also have zelda witch i actually did beat. I have not played Wii in monthes cause I am too busy with the 360 there are unlimited games for me to play. I will admit I have not plyaed much halo 3 online recently. It boring for me now, Played it 3 monthes when it frist came out. I even got the legendary map pack witch i have not used much. I dont think I will be getting another map pack for that game. I will however be getting alot more 360 games, I just got Lego Indy today, good game, only tried the 1st lvl so far, before the year is out I play on getting. Lego Batman, Ghostbusters, Gears 2, and a few others. It is shocking this month Super Mario Sluggers comes out, like WoW a new Wii game I am actually going to get. Anywyas my point is to me The Wii has a few rare games woth owning I love eveything Xbox 360, And I will be buying a load of blu rays once i hae my PS3. I bet i am not the only one who will do the same. PS3 right now has one game i want to play Resistance, there are a few coming but not for some time, also looking forward to GoW3 love that series.

[Astrakan]

July 2008 NPD numbers:

HARDWARE
608k - Nintendo DS
555k - Wii
225k - PlayStation 3
222k - PlayStation Portable
205k - Xbox 360
156k - PlayStation 2

SOFTWARE
398k - NCAA Football 09 (360)
370k - Wii Fit (Wii)
310k - Guitar Hero: On Tour (DS)
284k - Wii Play (Wii)
243k - NCAA Football 09 (PS3)
219k - Soul Calibur IV (360)
175k - Mario Kart (Wii)
166k - Rock Band (Wii)
156k - Soul Calibur IV (PS3)
148k - Civilization Revolution (360)

Source: Game On July NPD Sales Numbers Fire, Industry Volleys

[MooglePorn]

Thank you for posting these... my main news site, Kotaku, posts them, but never in a way that makes me notice the standings, for some reason. I guess I fly by it.

Glad to see the continued good sales of the PS3 and 360... The Wii... we've been there.

[umainebearman]

So are people just buying multiple DS systems? The DS and wii numbers just.... just... just.... I don't get it.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by umainebearman

So are people just buying multiple DS systems? The DS and wii numbers just.... just... just.... I don't get it.

The DS numbers I get. It's a fun little system with a wide variety of software available. The Wii... well, like Moogle says, we've been there.

All I can say is that I'll be waiting with baited breath to see how Wii sales will impact Sony's and Microsoft's next-gen consoles.

KM

[Damian]

So are people just buying multiple DS systems? The DS and wii numbers just.... just... just.... I don't get it.

Absolutely. If you're a game-playing parent you need one for yourself and one for your kid(s). We have two in my household. Friends of mine with two kids have four DS's.

All I can say is that I'll be waiting with baited breath to see how Wii sales will impact Sony's and Microsoft's next-gen consoles.

Haven't we already been seeing that for the past two years?

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by Damian

Haven't we already been seeing that for the past two years?

How? Maybe in software, although I'm not sure about even that. Hardware-wise things are staying pretty much the same, aside from creating some peripherals there's not much they can do.

In the next-gen though there may be major changes, should Sony and Microsoft decide to follow in the footsteps of the Wii in terms of hardware capability.

I think that's somewhat unlikely though, since both companies seem focused on taking over the living room, and not just gaming. But you never know...

KM

[Damian]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

How? Maybe in software, although I'm not sure about even that. Hardware-wise things are staying pretty much the same, aside from creating some peripherals there's not much they can do.

In the next-gen though there may be major changes, should Sony and Microsoft decide to follow in the footsteps of the Wii in terms of hardware capability.

I think that's somewhat unlikely though, since both companies seem focused on taking over the living room, and not just gaming. But you never know...

KM

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying. You said you're waiting with baited breath to see how Wii sales impact Sony and Microsoft's nex-gen consoles. But since the Wii came out it's been beating the snot out of the PS3 and 360 in terms of sales so what are you referring to?

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by Damian

But since the Wii came out it's been beating the snot out of the PS3 and 360 in terms of sales so what are you referring to?

It's precisely because it's beating them in sales that I'm curious to see how it will impact the next-gen.

Will Sony and Microsoft look at the success of the Wii and alter their strategies and release consoles more in line with Nintendo in terms of its hardware capabilities?

Will they ignore the Wii's success as a gaming platform, and continue down their path towards living room dominance?

A combination of the two?

KM

[Damian]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

It's precisely because it's beating them in sales that I'm curious to see how it will impact the next-gen.

Will Sony and Microsoft look at the success of the Wii and alter their strategies and release consoles more in line with Nintendo in terms of its hardware capabilities?

Will they ignore the Wii's success as a gaming platform, and continue down their path towards living room dominance?

A combination of the two?

KM

I don't really see Microsoft or Sony doing much in the way of emulating the Nintendo in their future consoles, nor would I want to see them do anything. I prefer sitting on my couch holding my controller between both hands instead of waving my arms around like a crazy person for the entire duration of the game. The reason why the Wii has been so successful it because it appeals to both seven year olds and seventy year olds. If Microsoft and/or Sony decided to weaken their systems and add full motion controlled controllers I think they'll find their systems tanking faster then the Neo-Geo did.

[MooglePorn]

I'm pretty sure that MS and Sony will try to find some middle-ground. The "new Xbox dashboard" is an example of this... more user friendly and casual, but with all the functions of the current model.

I bet the current systems will be around for a good while longer, especially the PS3. While this generation is in some ways coming up on 4 years old already, I bet it lasts another 4, easy. This is in some ways because the Wii has shown you don't need hot new graphics to be a success.

In the end though, I bet the divide stays roughly the same, for 3 reasons.

1) MS and Sony don't want to compete directly with Nintendo, for fear of getting completely thrashed. As it is now, they can cater to a different market, while also making inroads to Nintendo's market with things like Singstar and Scene It.

2) Their third-party developers will not allow it. Games like Call of Duty 4 and GTA 4 sell a ton of software, and games like that do not sell on the Wii. I don't think every software company is ready to go casual, and publishers like Ubisoft will not allow the whole market to go Wii. These mature games still sell much better than casual games on average, even if some casual games become blockbusters.

3) There are deeper motivations to the 360 and PS3 than just selling as many games as possible. They also want to push HD movies, download services, social networking, advertising and much more. The Wii is very focused on just being a fun game toy thing, and switching to that sole interest is not in the greater interests of MS and Sony.

In the end we have to watch and make sure MS and Sony don't make too many concessions toward the middle, but I am sure we will not have to worry about an overall casual gaming turn.

[Damian]

I think the better question is what is Nintendo planning when it comes time to replace the Wii? Obviously they'll have to take their graphics up more then just a notch or two because they've basically gone ten years without improving the graphics on their consoles.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by Damian

I think the better question is what is Nintendo planning when it comes time to replace the Wii? Obviously they'll have to take their graphics up more then just a notch or two because they've basically gone ten years without improving the graphics on their consoles.

But they've been rewarded for it.

I would assume they will finally go HD, but probably nothing too fancy. About the same as the 360 is now, maybe.