Vice City bonus info... sound 'issue'... (which is very cool!) - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

Draysoth · 10-30-2002, 12:38 AM

One word... or rather... 3 letters...

DTS THROUGHOUT!

Edited to add PS tag, sorry... is there a ps2 tag forthcoming...?

IKEA_boy · 10-30-2002, 06:26 AM

I didn't know that the PS2 could even output DTS in game, let alone throughout the game.

Joe Michaels · 10-30-2002, 01:34 PM

Playstation tag covers it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Draysoth
One word... or rather... 3 letters...

DTS THROUGHOUT!

Edited to add PS tag, sorry... is there a ps2 tag forthcoming...?

Larry62186 · 10-30-2002, 09:23 PM

see cap, i told you that gta vice city was encoded with dts.

Larry62186 · 10-31-2002, 12:03 AM

now that we've established that vice city has DTS, why doesnt it have dolby.

Cap42086 · 10-31-2002, 12:07 AM

I remember Metal Gear Solid 2 had Dolby (as I'm sure many of you remember, too), but it was only in select cut scenes. And if I remember correctly, it sounded ungodly.

Yeah, I do remember hearing something about PS2 being able to support DTS throughout on games, but none have utilized this capability. XBox has a few games with Dobly throughout and from what I've heard from other people, it sounds great.

I'm getting the game this week and can't wait to try it out.

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see cap, i told you gta vice city was encoded with dts.

Go do your frigging English essay.

Ruined · 10-31-2002, 12:30 AM

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Originally posted by Cap42086
Yeah, I do remember hearing something about PS2 being able to support DTS throughout on games, but none have utilized this capability. XBox has a few games with Dobly throughout and from what I've heard from other people, it sounds great.

*Every* XBOX game is encoded with Dolby 5.1 throughout. XBOX has a hardware DD5.1 encoder, so encoding with 5.1 results in no graphical hit. On the other hand, with PS2, one of the PS2's vector units has to be dedicated to DTS encoding, which limits the graphical capabilities of the PS2. The question is, would you rather have had the extra vector unit to clear up some of the framerate issues and/or improve graphics, or would you rather have it used for realtime 5.1. The cool thing with XBOX is that you can have both the best graphics the console has to offer, and realtime 5.1, all the time.

ConsoleAgnostic · 10-31-2002, 06:58 PM

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Originally posted by Ruined
*Every* XBOX game is encoded with Dolby 5.1 throughout. XBOX has a hardware DD5.1 encoder, so encoding with 5.1 results in no graphical hit. On the other hand, with PS2, one of the PS2's vector units has to be dedicated to DTS encoding, which limits the graphical capabilities of the PS2. The question is, would you rather have had the extra vector unit to clear up some of the framerate issues and/or improve graphics, or would you rather have it used for realtime 5.1. The cool thing with XBOX is that you can have both the best graphics the console has to offer, and realtime 5.1, all the time.

And you get all pissed off when someone calls you a fanboy...

-M

MooglePorn · 11-01-2002, 12:48 AM

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*Every* XBOX game is encoded with Dolby 5.1 throughout.

But XBOX doesn't have GTA:VC :p

As embarrasing as it is to admit, I have no surround sound system, and thus this is not important to me. But, for when I do get one (soon I hope), how does it effect gameplay in VC? Do you hear people coming up behind youand stuff? That would be cool. I guess I'm asking you to make me drool over the sound so I get off my ass and get a system

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ConsoleAgnostic
And you get all pissed off when someone calls you a fanboy...

-M

What is fanboy-ish about pointing out hardware facts? A 'fanboy' is someone who basically feels that the one particular thing he is a 'fan' of is God, and everything else is crap. I am simply pointing out technical facts that many people do not know.

P.S. -- Stating "Namecalling is unnecessary..." also does not indicate someone being "all pissed off"

IKEA_boy · 11-01-2002, 01:11 AM

I still think you're wrong about every game having DD 5.1 throughout. I'm 99.9% sure that the 20-02 Hitz and Blitz titles do not and I'm sure there are others.

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 01:18 AM

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Originally posted by IKEA_boy
I still think you're wrong about every game having DD 5.1 throughout. I'm 99.9% sure that the 20-02 Hitz and Blitz titles do not and I'm sure there are others.

I checked on the newsgroups, and users have posted that those titles are both, in fact, encoded with Dolby Digital 5.1 throughout. However, as with Dead to Rights, it is possible that there are parts of the game where not all 5.1 channels are utilized as I explained in the other thread. From what I've gathered, the XBOX encodes *every* game in Dolby Digital 5.1 (due to there being no processing hit), but it is possible that the developers of that game are not feeding out 5.1 channels of sound all the time. As I stated before, I haven't noticed any games with a distinct lack of surround, but then again I'm not interested in the Hitz/Blitz series. Since users have confirmed that the games are in fact encoded in DD5.1, it may be another case of not utilizing all of the encoded channels.

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MooglePorn
But XBOX doesn't have GTA:VC :p

My response to Cap's post had two purposes:

A) To clarify that realtime 5.1 is commonplace on XBOX, and that all games are actually encoded in DD5.1, unlike PS2 where realtime 5.1 encoding is rather rare.

B) To bring up the point that by adding realtime 5.1 to Vice City, Rockstar has in effect limited the graphical prowess of the game. Perhaps they could have fixed the occasional slowdown problems, or perhaps they could have increased the polygon count on models. Realtime 5.1 is great, but I would be pushing for developers to use the full graphical power of the console instead of dedicating one of its two critical vector units to realtime 5.1 encoding.

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As embarrasing as it is to admit, I have no surround sound system, and thus this is not important to me. But, for when I do get one (soon I hope), how does it effect gameplay in VC? Do you hear people coming up behind youand stuff? That would be cool. I guess I'm asking you to make me drool over the sound so I get off my ass and get a system

It depends how well the developers programmed the surround engine, and what tools they had to use. XBOX developers have an array of surround sound tools to use because of the XBOX's builtin capabilities, while PS2 devs tools are somewhat limited. Therefore, making a quality realtime surround experience on PS2 requires a lot more effort on the part of the dev. But, if the programming is good, you would be able to hear up coming up behind you, and you'd even be able to tell what side they were approaching from.

I haven't heard Vice City in 5.1, so I couldn't inform you about that game in particular, but there are a lot of XBOX games that have great surround effects. If you have an XBOX, I'd definitely recommend getting a surround system, as most of the better games have incredible 5.1 surround experiences.

Cap42086 · 11-01-2002, 02:20 AM

Wait a minute, there are PS2 games with 5.1 (in Dolby or DTS) in real time? What the hell are they?

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap42086
Wait a minute, there are PS2 games with 5.1 (in Dolby or DTS) in real time? What the hell are they?

As far as I know, these are the only PS2 games that have realtime 5.1 encoding throughout the game:

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
NHL 2002
NHL 2003
Sled Storm
SSX Tricky
Street Hoops

MooglePorn · 11-01-2002, 03:07 AM

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I haven't heard Vice City in 5.1, so I couldn't inform you about that game in particular, but there are a lot of XBOX games that have great surround effects. If you have an XBOX, I'd definitely recommend getting a surround system, as most of the better games have incredible 5.1 surround experiences

I have an XBOX but in all honesty don't use it often. I got Halo, and that was fun for a while, but since then Morrowind and Oddworld are the only games I've bought for it and they aren't really that fun. In all honesty I was going to sell the system, but there seems to be some better stuff coming, so maybe I'll hold out.

The reason I don't have a surround system isn't money, it's that I am still in college and thuse living in one room with all my shit crammed in it. I tried hooking up a system in there but it just didn't work... Surround on movies never really excited me for whatever reason, but the way you describe the surround on games, that gets me excited.

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 04:19 AM

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Originally posted by MooglePorn
I have an XBOX but in all honesty don't use it often. I got Halo, and that was fun for a while, but since then Morrowind and Oddworld are the only games I've bought for it and they aren't really that fun. In all honesty I was going to sell the system, but there seems to be some better stuff coming, so maybe I'll hold out.

Only 3 games? Man, you missed out on a lot. Lots of cool exclusives to pick up like Jet Set Radio Future, Project Gotham Racing, Crazy Taxi 3, Rallisport Challenge, House of the Dead 3, Quantum Redshift, Gunvalkyrie, Dead or Alive 3, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Dead to Rights, Toejam and Earl 3, motoGP, Shenmue 2, SEGA GT 2002, Deathrow, etc... As for your current games, a lot of replay value can be gained from Halo by playing with others, either with splitscreen, XBCONNECT internet play, or system link play. Oddworld is a rather 'odd' game, and I could see how some may not enjoy it. As for not liking Morrowind, what the hell is wrong with you?

Personally I am hooked on Morrowind, one of the most expansive RPGs I have ever played. Perhaps you should give it another chance. But, even if none of the aforementioned games interest you, upcoming stuff like Unreal Championship, Fable, MechAssault, Splinter Cell, and Panzer Dragoon Orta on the horizon will.

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The reason I don't have a surround system isn't money, it's that I am still in college and thuse living in one room with all my shit crammed in it. I tried hooking up a system in there but it just didn't work... Surround on movies never really excited me for whatever reason, but the way you describe the surround on games, that gets me excited.

It really is quite impressive, and the cool thing is that most of the XBOX games utilize it, some better than others. Halo probably still holds the title for best surround, but Buffy, Quantum Redshift, Morrowind, and Dead to Rights are up there. With surround setups so cheap these days, it would be in your best interest to get a setup ASAP!

DVDriven · 11-01-2002, 05:03 PM

Well, I see it didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked by an XBOX fan(boy).

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DVDriven
Well, I see it didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked by an XBOX fan(boy).

Why resort to namecalling? All of my comments in this thread were 100% on topic and responses to other posts in the thread.

DVDriven · 11-01-2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruined
Why resort to namecalling? All of my comments in this thread were 100% on topic and responses to other posts in the thread.

What started as an innocent mention of the XBOX's Dolby capacity by Cap42086 which was indirectly related to Larry62186's question regarding its absence on GTA:VC quickly degenerated into a rave on the XBOX's hardware capabilities, in comparison to the PS2's, ending with a listing of XBOX titles that have little, if anything, to do with GTA:VC.

The need to interject and/or the need to constantly display one's prowess in a certain area thereby yielded the term. I can't speak for others, but for me, it's grating on my nerves.

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DVDriven
What started as an innocent mention of the XBOX's Dolby capacity by Cap42086 which was indirectly related to Larry62186's question regarding its absence on GTA:VC quickly degenerated into a rave on the XBOX's hardware capabilities, in comparison to the PS2's, ending with a listing of XBOX titles that have little, if anything, to do with GTA:VC.

The need to interject and/or the need to constantly display one's prowess in a certain area thereby yielded the term. I can't speak for others, but for me, it's grating on my nerves.

I think you are simply misinterpreting my posts, for what reason I do not know. The response to Cap, who brought up XBOX in the first place, clarified XBOX's 5.1 capabilities, while at the same time explaining the sacrifices a PS2 developer has to make while implementing similar capabilities. Later, I also listed the PS2 titles that supported 5.1 to him. This is not a "rave" on the XBOX's hardware capabilities, but just a clarification of them. You may have interpreted them as impressive compared to the PS2's, but I did not "rave" about them in such a manner.

As for the listing of XBOX titles, it was a recommendation to MooglePorn who had stated he only had 3 XBOX titles, 2 of which he was not enjoying. Moogleporn may not have been aware of some of the cooler titles on XBOX, so I listed them. Again, I did not bring up XBOX in this case, yet was responding to someone else who did. If someone had stated that they had PS2 and only had 1 game they liked, would it not be appropriate to recommend enjoyable games to that person?

It is OK to discuss the various technical capabilities of various consoles and the games that utilize them - it probably shouldn't upset you to read about such things.

ConsoleAgnostic · 11-01-2002, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruined
What is fanboy-ish about pointing out hardware facts? A 'fanboy' is someone who basically feels that the one particular thing he is a 'fan' of is God, and everything else is crap. I am simply pointing out technical facts that many people do not know.

P.S. -- Stating "Namecalling is unnecessary..." also does not indicate someone being "all pissed off"

You might be a fanboy if...

Your every post reads like advertising copy for your favorite console.

The lowest score you've ever given a game is 8.5/10 unless it's for some console other than the one you support.

Direct ports of games to your console somehow are always better than on any other system.

Every game for your console that gets poor reviews is due to other people's ignorance. They simply are not smart enough to "get" a game...

I think DVDriven said the rest...

-M

DVDriven · 11-01-2002, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruined
I think you are simply misinterpreting my posts, for what reason I do not know. The response to Cap, who brought up XBOX in the first place, clarified XBOX's 5.1 capabilities, while at the same time explaining the sacrifices a PS2 developer has to make while implementing similar capabilities. Later, I also listed the PS2 titles that supported 5.1 to him. This is not a "rave" on the XBOX's hardware capabilities, but just a clarification of them. You may have interpreted them as impressive compared to the PS2's, but I did not "rave" about them in such a manner.

I wasn't aware that Cap nor Larry insisted on, or at the very least asked for clarification regarding the XBOX's Dolby capability. If you wanted to state that the XBOX offered Dolby 5.1 in all of their games and left it at that, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me. However, the mention of this feature somehow opened a gateway for a remark whose only purpose is to undermine the PS2 in some fashion. Do you know unequivocally and irrefutably that the use of one of the PS2's vector units is dedicated solely to DTS encoding, thus taking away substantial resources for other duties? If this statement was made by one of Rockstar's programmers / tech leads, I would like to see that article.

Quote:

It is OK to discuss the various technical capabilities of various consoles and the games that utilize them - it probably shouldn't upset you to read about such things.

True, however there is a time and place for everything. As the phrase goes: Discretion is the better part of valour. Where XBOX purveyors are concerned, nothing's ever black and white.

Ruined · 11-01-2002, 08:35 PM

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Originally posted by DVDriven
I wasn't aware that Cap nor Larry insisted on, or at the very least asked for clarification regarding the XBOX's Dolby capability.

And? It's OK to add something to a discussion when relevant.

Quote:

If you wanted to state that the XBOX offered Dolby 5.1 in all of their games and left it at that, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me. However, the mention of this feature somehow opened a gateway for a remark whose only purpose is to undermine the PS2 in some fashion.

Why would I want to "undermine the PS2". The PS2 is a $200 videogame console, like the XBOX. It's not like I'm running for president and the PS2 is my competition. I think you are a bit too sensitive about videogames - they are just entertainment.

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Do you know unequivocally and irrefutably that the use of one of the PS2's vector units is dedicated solely to DTS encoding, thus taking away substantial resources for other duties? If this statement was made by one of Rockstar's programmers / tech leads, I would like to see that article.

Of course Rockstar would not release such a PR, it could be taken as bad publicity for both Rockstar and Sony. Reliable third parties have released such statements, such as Anand Lal Shimpi of AnandTech.com. To quote him:

"Although the PS2 features an integrated toslink optical audio output on the console itself, it is only used for AC-3 and DTS passthrough as the console itself does not support any form of Dolby Digital encoding. With the release of SSX Tricky and NHL 2002 both by EA Sports, the second vector unit of the EE has actually been put to use in generating DTS sound effects for in-game 5.1 audio. This gives you an idea of the power of the VUs and now that EA has done it you can expect game developers to attempt to duplicate EA's success in future titles. The unfortunate downside to this is that it takes a decent amount of power to enable DTS encoding through one of the VUs which is power taken away from physics, AI or a 3D setup engine."

The entire article can be found here.

I have also spoken with an engineer at DTS, who informed me that one of the vector units on the PS2 was dedicated to the task of encoding realtime 5.1, at approximately 500kbps.

Quote:

True, however there is a time and place for everything. As the phrase goes: Discretion is the better part of valour. Where XBOX purveyors are concerned, nothing's ever black and white.

I enjoy discussing the technical aspects of consoles, electronics, etc. Don't take a technical discussion personally.

MooglePorn · 11-02-2002, 12:19 AM

People are always complaining on this board... damn chill out!

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Only 3 games? Man, you missed out on a lot.

Of the ones you listed, I am really only interested in Jet Set, which I will probably get soon. The others just don't appeal to me and didn't get great reviews.

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As for your current games, a lot of replay value can be gained from Halo by playing with others

Oh... I know. Halo kicks... that I agree with.

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As for not liking Morrowind, what the hell is wrong with you?

I liked Morrowind for a good while... got up to level 70 I think... but after a while I got bored with it. I probably got 50 hours or more out of it, so it is a good game, but all the missions got repetetive after a while, and all the dungeons looked the same. I wish I could play the PC version for the on-line support and dungeon building aspects.

I like XBOX, just not as much as the other two systems. Splinter Cell, Unreal, the coming RARE games, and Star Wars stuff could change that though...

Joe Michaels · 11-02-2002, 12:54 AM

Console Agnostic, have you read Ruined's Bruce Lee review?
Your comments are out of line. Ruined is the official XBOX GURU for the board. If someone wants to be a console expert for the PS2 or Cube show me what you have and I may promote your title.
With that, this thread is closed.

10-30-2002, 12:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
Draysoth Actor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Grimsby, Ontario	Vice City bonus info... sound 'issue'... (which is very cool!) One word... or rather... 3 letters... DTS THROUGHOUT! Edited to add PS tag, sorry... is there a ps2 tag forthcoming...? __________________ My DVD Collection Last edited by Draysoth : 10-30-2002 at 12:44 AM.

10-30-2002, 09:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
Larry62186 Actor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Smallest State in the Union	see cap, i told you that gta vice city was encoded with dts. __________________ Lawrencius Prom.sysrq.no check it out.

10-31-2002, 12:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Larry62186 Actor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Smallest State in the Union	now that we've established that vice city has DTS, why doesnt it have dolby. __________________ Lawrencius Prom.sysrq.no check it out.

11-01-2002, 05:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
DVDriven Actor Join Date: May 2001 Location: 1020 Palm Drive, Cocoa Beach, FL	Well, I see it didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked by an XBOX fan(boy). __________________ "The only ism Hollywood believes in is plagiarism." - Dorothy Parker

10-30-2002, 06:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
IKEA_boy Director Emeritus ~~Persista~~ Persistent Student Join Date: Oct 2001	I didn't know that the PS2 could even output DTS in game, let alone throughout the game.

11-01-2002, 01:11 AM	#11 (permalink)
IKEA_boy Director Emeritus ~~Persista~~ Persistent Student Join Date: Oct 2001	I still think you're wrong about every game having DD 5.1 throughout. I'm 99.9% sure that the 20-02 Hitz and Blitz titles do not and I'm sure there are others.

11-01-2002, 02:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Cap42086 Actor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rhode Island	Wait a minute, there are PS2 games with 5.1 (in Dolby or DTS) in real time? What the hell are they?

11-02-2002, 12:54 AM	#26 (permalink)
Joe Michaels Join Date: Jun 2000	Console Agnostic, have you read Ruined's Bruce Lee review? Your comments are out of line. Ruined is the official XBOX GURU for the board. If someone wants to be a console expert for the PS2 or Cube show me what you have and I may promote your title. With that, this thread is closed.