Half Life 2 Delayed AGAIN - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

Sycowulf · 10-07-2003, 09:33 PM

You all knew this was coming. HL2 delayed until April 2004.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/ha...s_6076466.html

I want to find the guy who stole that code and shoot him right between the eyes with a nice high caliber handgun.

Ruined · 10-07-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sycowulf

You all knew this was coming. HL2 delayed until April 2004.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/ha...s_6076466.html

I want to find the guy who stole that code and shoot him right between the eyes with a nice high caliber handgun.

Yep, bad news. Looks like Doom3 will be the 'next big game' afterall.

incubus0 · 10-07-2003, 09:42 PM

GameSpot is blocked from my work, can you paste the article?

Ispep Aloc · 10-07-2003, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Gamers' worst fears were confirmed this morning when Vivendi Universal announced that its eagerly awaited Half-Life 2 will not be released until April 2004.

In a brief statement to the French daily Les Echos, VU Games president of international operations, Christophe Ramboz, blamed the now-infamous source code theft for the delay. "A third of the source code was stolen," said Ramboz. "It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months--to April 2004." Neither Half-Life 2's developer, Valve Software (site of the actual code theft), nor its founder, Gabe Newell, had any comments as of press time. A Vivendi Universal Games spokesperson informed GameSpot that it would release a statement regarding the game later today.

The Half-Life 2 delay couldn't come at a worse time for VU Games. So far, 2003 has seen the publisher's relationship with Baldur's Gate developer Interplay disintegrate, while its much-hyped Hulk game fizzled, just like its big-screen counterpart. Analysts cited Hulk's failure in the firm's $61 million operating loss in the company's two most recent quarters. However, the delay announcement today didn't greatly affect the stock price of VU Games' parent company, Vivendi Universal.

Steady stock prices are cold comfort to the millions of gamers who had hoped to help Gordon Freeman save the world--again--this holiday season.

By Tor Thorsen, GameSpot [POSTED: 10/07/03 09:10 AM]

***1138*** · 10-07-2003, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sycowulf

I want to find the guy who stole that code and shoot him right between the eyes with a nice high caliber handgun.

Exactly.

SephirothClone · 10-07-2003, 11:54 PM

Damnit! And i'm waiting for the X-Box one.

Hess · 10-08-2003, 01:08 AM

You know, the first thing I thought when I heard this was "Huh. I wonder if that really happened..."

This game has been delayed for a long time. Why would you have to rewrite 1/3 of a game because the source was stolen? I guess it could have been the networking third, but even still, what could the average gamer have of value on his or her computer? (That a hacker could get...) If they were worried about corporate competition, the time (and sales...) they're losing more than make up for any spiffier game from anyone else.

I dunno. Something feels sketchy...

hess

elwood731 · 10-08-2003, 01:38 AM

I agree, this all just sounds too convenient or something. I wonder if this whole thing wasn't invented as a cover story to delay the game because of some problems it was having. Oh well, not a game I am worried about. I will play it eventually, and plenty of other games to keep me busy until then.

Consider this, though. Is it perhaps in their better interest to release AFTER Doom3? Doom3 will get plenty of fanfare when it gets released, but if HL2 comes out after, it could then get all the fanfare and be viewed as the new kind of the block. It would, technically, be a newer game release wise, and that might help it steal a bit of Doom3's shine, instead of being released in the reverse order.

Ruined · 10-08-2003, 02:38 AM

These "leaked on purpose" stories have one major flaw. The leaked code included sensitive authentication code for Steam, along with full leaked source for third party licenses Valve was using including the Havok MP engine and Miles Audio engine. There is no way in hell Valve would purposely compromise two other companies' source code, plus the authentication code for their own content delivery system.

In other words, a leak on purpose in this case is impossible.

P.S. - The fully playable compiled Half Life 2 Beta (which apparently has a good number of levels from the retail game) is now available in the same places the source code was available.

Re: elwood
No, it is much worse to be released after Doom3. Half Life 2 had the PC XMAS market sealed tight shut, plus ATI would have benefitted tremendously with the tie in. Now, ATI loses out both because Half Life 2 was supposed to be bundled with Radeon 9800XTs this XMAS, and also because Nvidia's baby Doom3 will be released first, and Nvidia cards will look to be best for the first major released "next-gen" PC game. Valve loses the exclusive XMAS sales they would have snagged, they lose the time advantage they had over Doom3, they sour relationships with devs of Havok and Miles for not better protecting their code, Steam's security and reputation is sullied, and ATI gets screwed out of their 6million dollar bundle deal. No one wins... Except maybe Nvidia, who now has more time to optimize their drivers, release their next-gen NV40 part, and get a jump on ATI with Doom3 all before HL2 is released.

elwood731 · 10-08-2003, 02:48 AM

Who cares about ATI? I was talking about the game. And I disagree it hurts Valve to come out after Doom3. Of course, I am one who thinks HL2 will have a bigger impact on gaming than Doom3.

As for the code, I hadn't heard if the code was actually avaialble or this story had just "surfaced." Whatever the case, it all sounds fishy to me. But like I said, I could care less. I will play it when it comes out.

Ruined · 10-08-2003, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwood731

Who cares about ATI? I was talking about the game.

ATI was a major player in Half Life 2. ATI payed Valve over 6 million dollars (documented in ATI's own earnings) in order to get Valve in the ATI "Get In the Game" program and to get an exclusive XMAS Half Life 2/9800XT bundle. During Valve's shader day, Valve did everything short of calling Nvidia Satan himself. Thus, ATI plays a large role in Half Life 2, and this will certainly hurt ATI pretty badly - hence it is applicable to bring up in discrediting a theory that the code was purposefully leaked.

Quote:

And I disagree it hurts Valve to come out after Doom3. Of course, I am one who thinks HL2 will have a bigger impact on gaming than Doom3.

The thing is everyone was hyped for Half Life 2 now, people were buying videocards for Half Life 2 now, and there were no other massive releases coming out during this XMAS. In short, every hardcore gamer would buy HL2 in a flash. People were even starting to trust STEAM. Now the game will have to compete with Doom3 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for a gamer's cash - plus all those people who bought new videocards because Valve told them to (they did tell people to buy 9800s, too, and insisted that the game would no doubt be avail 9/30), may be a bit miffed that by the time HL2 actually comes out their hardware will be outdated and replaced by new hardware. And STEAM's security is compromised, too.

Quote:

As for the code, I hadn't heard if the code was actually avaialble or this story had just "surfaced." Whatever the case, it all sounds fishy to me. But like I said, I could care less. I will play it when it comes out.

Yep, its been available via USENET or IRC for about 4-5 days now. And its not just Valve code, but code from two other companies as well that Valve had licensed out as I mentioned above. And today the full compiled beta was released with a good number of maps. Not good.

elwood731 · 10-08-2003, 03:41 AM

I understand that you care about ATI and nVidia's war, but again, I do not. My original post had nothing to do with card wars, I was just talking abotu the game. So again, I could care less about ATI.

That brings on the second point, which again, I still don't care about the cards. People will still buy HL2, and a card bought this Christmas will not be "outdated" by the time HL2 comes out.

Look, I've seen you arguing about the whole card wars. I know this stuff matters to you. It doesn't to me. As said, I will play the game when it comes out. When I say it might be better for the game, I mean better for the "game," and not for ATI or whoever. I don't care.

Ruined · 10-08-2003, 05:12 AM

Elwood, the intention of my reply was not to bring "card wars" into the fray but to show how the "fake/purposed leak" theory that Hess and you were thinking about really is impossible based on the major financial hits Valve and ATI will be taking because of this, along with the anger (and perhaps even legal grounds for suing) that creators of the Havok and Miles Audio engines probably have towards Valve at this point for leaking their source code as well. Bringing ATI into the picture was just another piece of evidence of how this simply could not be in anyone's best interests.

elwood731 · 10-08-2003, 06:01 AM

No one is suggesting they are doing this as a big gag. The idea was that they did it to cover a game that wasn't ready to ship.

But anyway, I am not going to argue this anymore. I was trying to make a point about the game, not the politics of computer hardware.

R1NLP · 10-08-2003, 08:02 AM

I think they'll sell just as many copies, regardless of whether or not Doom III is released first. I mean come on, what self respecting gamer isn't going to own BOTH of these games?

***1138*** · 10-08-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwood731

Who cares about ATI?

Well, in the case of talking HL2, we care because by getting delayed, they're hurting a partnership. They got payed 6 million to get this game out for Christmas and they didn't. I think that is a valid reason for why getting delayed is bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwood731

not the politics of computer hardware

Well, I think the politics of hardware is deep rooted in this whole thing. I'm not claiming that this will impact hardware stuff for sure. But it might and if anything, ATI at least thinks it does. You don't give a company $6 mil for nothing.

Hess · 10-08-2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined

In other words, a leak on purpose in this case is impossible.

Nothing is impossible, especially when this much money is involved. There is no proof that any of the code that has escaped works. Sounds like a good excuse to cover up another date slip without violating any contracts...

hess

Ruined · 10-09-2003, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hess

Nothing is impossible, especially when this much money is involved. There is no proof that any of the code that has escaped works. Sounds like a good excuse to cover up another date slip without violating any contracts...

hess

Hess, a compiled fully functional and playable version of Half Life 2 has been available in the usual warez places since 10/7. And the code for non-valve software is also there (Miles, Havok), no way Valve would even pretend to leak another companies source code.

Hess · 10-09-2003, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined

Hess, a compiled fully functional and playable version of Half Life 2 has been available in the usual warez places since 10/7. And the code for non-valve software is also there (Miles, Havok), no way Valve would even pretend to leak another companies source code.

Compiled code is one thing; actual source code is a whole different beast. Unless you know who stole the code or did it yourself you have no right to tell me my opinions or theories are wrong. You have absolutely no proof. Get off your high fucking horse...

hess

***1138*** · 10-09-2003, 06:57 AM

It's code that was compiled from the avaialable source code. Do you understand? The source code was stolen. People got it. They then compiled it. It works. Now they have a pre build of the game. What's so hard to understand?

Frank Gunn · 10-09-2003, 12:42 PM

*Frank raises his hand*

I don't get it.

Enzian · 10-09-2003, 04:08 PM

Source code is the stuff programmers actually write. They type it out. They then run it through a compiler, which makes hardware specific code that that computer can understand and run.
That enables programmers to write one version of source code, and then compile it on different machines, like PCs, Macs and Unix flavors. One source, many compilations. Tre chic.

The source code for a pre-release version of HL2 has been reportedly stolen. Some here think it's a hoax, so that Valve can get a better sales window (better than Christmas? I don't buy it, personally) or that by releasing the source code early, they can give the Modification Community time to work with the new engine - enabling a much broader base of games to be developed in the long run (but if that were the case, why would that delay the commercial release?).
Others here think that the leak was legit, and point to the fact that there are a number of economic factors involved which would make an intentional leak suicidal - or at least masochistic.

I, personally, think the leak is real, and unintentional.

Remember the Doom3 leak a while ago? That was real, too.

Get it? Got it? Good.

Frank Gunn · 10-09-2003, 05:40 PM

Sorry, Enzian. I was just trying to get 1138's dander up. He sounded pretty exasperated in that last post.

elwood731 · 10-09-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1138

Well, I think the politics of hardware is deep rooted in this whole thing. I'm not claiming that this will impact hardware stuff for sure. But it might and if anything, ATI at least thinks it does. You don't give a company $6 mil for nothing.

And again, like I said, I don't care about the politics of the situation. How can I make this more clear to you? I understand the whole ATI issue is a vlaid one when it comes to deals and everything, but as I said, I personally could care less. So what if ATI gets mad? Doesn't affect me one bit. As I said originally before others start bringing other issues into the mix--all I care about is the same. All the politics is a fine issue to discuss, just stop acting like I should care when I don't.

As for the code being stolen, I said all I had heard was that there was a "leak." It sounded like an urban legend to me, that someone had planted a virus onto his computer and stolen the code. I added that maybe it was a coverstory for why teh game was delayed, because perhaps it wasn't ready yet to ship cause of code problems. Instead of admitting there were stablility problems or something, Valve leaked this story. It has happened before in the game industry. But now that the leak has been proven REAL, I do not think they did it. I still don't see this as the death blow to HL2 that some do, but oh well.

Let me state again--I do not care about ATI. Good for those who do, but I do not. Something so simple but it seems to be blowing people's minds. Haha.

brian · 10-09-2003, 06:38 PM

Hess, please check your PM box.

***1138*** · 10-09-2003, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwood731

Let me state again--I do not care about ATI. Good for those who do, but I do not. Something so simple but it seems to be blowing people's minds. Haha.

Simple, yet perplexing. Nobody is telling you to care about ATI. The whole ATI thing was brought up as a very real and valid reason as to why this whole thing was most likely not a leak. Something you had called into question.

And then you go off on people for doing so. You may not care about it, but it's a valid point to the discussion that you helped start. If you don't want to deal with dicsussing your points then I'm not sure why you're posting.

Engineer_J · 10-09-2003, 09:13 PM

Okay the one thing I don't understand is the reports said no art or graphic or places where in the source code stolen so even with the code how did they actually get a playable game? Did they create all the graphics too or were the intial reports wrong? Has anyone actually played the leaked game? and I don't mean you have seen it or a friend of a brothers cousin boyfriend either, anyone that comes here regularlly played it? IF not none of us know how much was "leaked".

10-07-2003, 09:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sycowulf Actor Join Date: Aug 2002	Half Life 2 Delayed AGAIN You all knew this was coming. HL2 delayed until April 2004. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/ha...s_6076466.html I want to find the guy who stole that code and shoot him right between the eyes with a nice high caliber handgun. __________________ My Game Collection \|\| My DVD Collection

10-07-2003, 11:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
SephirothClone Secret President of the NLWC Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Guess and win $1	Damnit! And i'm waiting for the X-Box one. __________________ Want pictures of my iguana collection? Just give Ried a PM.

10-08-2003, 01:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
elwood731 Moderator Emeritus On a mission from God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kentucky	I agree, this all just sounds too convenient or something. I wonder if this whole thing wasn't invented as a cover story to delay the game because of some problems it was having. Oh well, not a game I am worried about. I will play it eventually, and plenty of other games to keep me busy until then. Consider this, though. Is it perhaps in their better interest to release AFTER Doom3? Doom3 will get plenty of fanfare when it gets released, but if HL2 comes out after, it could then get all the fanfare and be viewed as the new kind of the block. It would, technically, be a newer game release wise, and that might help it steal a bit of Doom3's shine, instead of being released in the reverse order. __________________ "Stupid people surround themselves with smart people. Smart people surround themselves with smart people who disagree with them." - Sports Night "You may not be a maniac, but neither should to remain an impotent!" - Damian

10-08-2003, 02:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ruined It's Good to Play Together Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ, USA	These "leaked on purpose" stories have one major flaw. The leaked code included sensitive authentication code for Steam, along with full leaked source for third party licenses Valve was using including the Havok MP engine and Miles Audio engine. There is no way in hell Valve would purposely compromise two other companies' source code, plus the authentication code for their own content delivery system. In other words, a leak on purpose in this case is impossible. P.S. - The fully playable compiled Half Life 2 Beta (which apparently has a good number of levels from the retail game) is now available in the same places the source code was available. Re: elwood No, it is much worse to be released after Doom3. Half Life 2 had the PC XMAS market sealed tight shut, plus ATI would have benefitted tremendously with the tie in. Now, ATI loses out both because Half Life 2 was supposed to be bundled with Radeon 9800XTs this XMAS, and also because Nvidia's baby Doom3 will be released first, and Nvidia cards will look to be best for the first major released "next-gen" PC game. Valve loses the exclusive XMAS sales they would have snagged, they lose the time advantage they had over Doom3, they sour relationships with devs of Havok and Miles for not better protecting their code, Steam's security and reputation is sullied, and ATI gets screwed out of their 6million dollar bundle deal. No one wins... Except maybe Nvidia, who now has more time to optimize their drivers, release their next-gen NV40 part, and get a jump on ATI with Doom3 all before HL2 is released. __________________ For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light. Last edited by Ruined : 10-08-2003 at 02:48 AM.

10-08-2003, 02:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
elwood731 Moderator Emeritus On a mission from God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kentucky	Who cares about ATI? I was talking about the game. And I disagree it hurts Valve to come out after Doom3. Of course, I am one who thinks HL2 will have a bigger impact on gaming than Doom3. As for the code, I hadn't heard if the code was actually avaialble or this story had just "surfaced." Whatever the case, it all sounds fishy to me. But like I said, I could care less. I will play it when it comes out. __________________ "Stupid people surround themselves with smart people. Smart people surround themselves with smart people who disagree with them." - Sports Night "You may not be a maniac, but neither should to remain an impotent!" - Damian

10-07-2003, 09:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
incubus0 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Massachusetts	GameSpot is blocked from my work, can you paste the article?

10-08-2003, 01:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Hess Actor Join Date: Mar 2003	You know, the first thing I thought when I heard this was "Huh. I wonder if that really happened..." This game has been delayed for a long time. Why would you have to rewrite 1/3 of a game because the source was stolen? I guess it could have been the networking third, but even still, what could the average gamer have of value on his or her computer? (That a hacker could get...) If they were worried about corporate competition, the time (and sales...) they're losing more than make up for any spiffier game from anyone else. I dunno. Something feels sketchy... hess

10-08-2003, 03:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
elwood731 Moderator Emeritus On a mission from God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kentucky	I understand that you care about ATI and nVidia's war, but again, I do not. My original post had nothing to do with card wars, I was just talking abotu the game. So again, I could care less about ATI. That brings on the second point, which again, I still don't care about the cards. People will still buy HL2, and a card bought this Christmas will not be "outdated" by the time HL2 comes out. Look, I've seen you arguing about the whole card wars. I know this stuff matters to you. It doesn't to me. As said, I will play the game when it comes out. When I say it might be better for the game, I mean better for the "game," and not for ATI or whoever. I don't care. __________________ "Stupid people surround themselves with smart people. Smart people surround themselves with smart people who disagree with them." - Sports Night "You may not be a maniac, but neither should to remain an impotent!" - Damian

10-08-2003, 05:12 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ruined It's Good to Play Together Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ, USA	Elwood, the intention of my reply was not to bring "card wars" into the fray but to show how the "fake/purposed leak" theory that Hess and you were thinking about really is impossible based on the major financial hits Valve and ATI will be taking because of this, along with the anger (and perhaps even legal grounds for suing) that creators of the Havok and Miles Audio engines probably have towards Valve at this point for leaking their source code as well. Bringing ATI into the picture was just another piece of evidence of how this simply could not be in anyone's best interests. __________________ For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light.

10-08-2003, 06:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
elwood731 Moderator Emeritus On a mission from God Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kentucky	No one is suggesting they are doing this as a big gag. The idea was that they did it to cover a game that wasn't ready to ship. But anyway, I am not going to argue this anymore. I was trying to make a point about the game, not the politics of computer hardware. __________________ "Stupid people surround themselves with smart people. Smart people surround themselves with smart people who disagree with them." - Sports Night "You may not be a maniac, but neither should to remain an impotent!" - Damian

10-08-2003, 08:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
R1NLP Actor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, TX aka Humidity Hell	I think they'll sell just as many copies, regardless of whether or not Doom III is released first. I mean come on, what self respecting gamer isn't going to own BOTH of these games? __________________ If life were easy, and not so fast I wouldn't think about the past

10-09-2003, 06:57 AM	#20 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	It's code that was compiled from the avaialable source code. Do you understand? The source code was stolen. People got it. They then compiled it. It works. Now they have a pre build of the game. What's so hard to understand? __________________ Administrator I got a rock and roll band. I got a rock and roll life. I got a rock and roll girlfriend. And another ex-wife.

10-09-2003, 12:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
Frank Gunn Actor Join Date: Oct 2002	Frank raises his hand I don't get it.

10-09-2003, 04:08 PM	#22 (permalink)
Enzian Producer/Admin Emeritus Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Fort Phoenix	Source code is the stuff programmers actually write. They type it out. They then run it through a compiler, which makes hardware specific code that that computer can understand and run. That enables programmers to write one version of source code, and then compile it on different machines, like PCs, Macs and Unix flavors. One source, many compilations. Tre chic. The source code for a pre-release version of HL2 has been reportedly stolen. Some here think it's a hoax, so that Valve can get a better sales window (better than Christmas? I don't buy it, personally) or that by releasing the source code early, they can give the Modification Community time to work with the new engine - enabling a much broader base of games to be developed in the long run (but if that were the case, why would that delay the commercial release?). Others here think that the leak was legit, and point to the fact that there are a number of economic factors involved which would make an intentional leak suicidal - or at least masochistic. I, personally, think the leak is real, and unintentional. Remember the Doom3 leak a while ago? That was real, too. Get it? Got it? Good. __________________ Ficht nicht mit Der Raketemensch! XBox Gamertag: Enzian 00001 Elitism is ok, so long as you keep it in your pants...or something like that.

10-09-2003, 05:40 PM	#23 (permalink)
Frank Gunn Actor Join Date: Oct 2002	Sorry, Enzian. I was just trying to get 1138's dander up. He sounded pretty exasperated in that last post.

10-09-2003, 06:38 PM	#25 (permalink)
brian Digital Jesűs Emeritus Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Wisconsin	Hess, please check your PM box. __________________ Why? fin.

10-09-2003, 09:13 PM	#27 (permalink)
Engineer_J The Gordon Gekko of Games Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Dallas, TX, USA	Okay the one thing I don't understand is the reports said no art or graphic or places where in the source code stolen so even with the code how did they actually get a playable game? Did they create all the graphics too or were the intial reports wrong? Has anyone actually played the leaked game? and I don't mean you have seen it or a friend of a brothers cousin boyfriend either, anyone that comes here regularlly played it? IF not none of us know how much was "leaked".