Manhunt causes murder? IGN interview...

[MooglePorn]

I guess there was a murder in England linked to the game Manuhunt, and Britain pulled the game from sale. An American lawyer is representing the family of the victim, and is an activist to get violent video games restricted in general. IGN conducted an interview with him, and you can read it HERE. It's a pretty interesting read.

Personally, I wouldn't mind MA games being illegal to sell to minors, as long as a parent can override that decision. Parents should always have the last word.

[IKEA_boy]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

Personally, I wouldn't mind MA games being illegal to sell to minors, as long as a parent can override that decision. Parents should always have the last word.

I would venture to say that parents who let their kids learn life lessons from Rockstar Games won't have any problems going to Wal-Mart with them to buy the M-rated games. (Of course this is the case with movies, music, games and any other form of "mature" media.)

They need to go after the parents, not the games. Don't sit your kid in front of the TV with Grand Theft Auto in one hand and Manhunt in the other without any guidance.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by IKEA_boy

They need to go after the parents, not the games. Don't sit your kid in front of the TV with Grand Theft Auto in one hand and Manhunt in the other without any guidance.

Of course... the guy in the interview WANTS to say that these games are good for no one... you can tell he wants to. He wants then banned outright... you can tell.

I certainly don't agree with that. Make MA games like R rated films, then let the parents decide if they want to buy it for Billy anyway. Parents need to pay more attention to this shit. I was at my cousin's the other day and my 7 year old cousin has the new Outkast album... I mean, Christ...

[plissken99]

I love his implications that anyone under the age of 25 who has played games in mentally retarded to a degree.

Just like with Columbine, they have to put blame on what is a random act of violence. And they blame whatever game was left in the killers console, or DVD in the player. Nevermind blaming the parents, the ones who are interacting with the child more anyone or anything else. My favorite line on the subject was from Scream "Movies don't create phsychos, movies make phsychos more creative". Which is absolutly true. If the kid is nuts, he is nuts. Whatever he has been interacting with, will simply help him decide how to go about something. So instead of shooting the other kid with his Dads gun, he uses a machete like in the game.

That said, I felt Manhunt was a bit extreme when I played it. I played it all the way through and enjoyed it, but it is an intensly violent game. But it doesn't give the passion one needs to kill, it gives a killer some ideas. The current rating system is enough, if they would just enforce it. I was miffed when I was 15 or 16 when they started it(and actually were bothering with enforcing it), but I just got Mom to come in with me to pick it up.

I feel it all starts with the parents. Before you let Timmy start playing manhunt, just explain to him that these actions are not tolerated in real life, and that he is playing a game, nothing more. All will be well. My parents thankfully had that attitude, I was watching Nightmare on Elm Street when I was 7, and I turned out fine.

[SilentBob]

Man another "Blame some killing on some video game that has lots of it too" Come on people/parents listen and learn about the games your kids are buying before you see what they are really about. They have a chance to stop "the blame" of their kids violence by checking out the rating like for any movie. A kid in the states can see an R rated movie but its up to the parents to say if its ok or not to allow them to come in and watch it with them. The media has ratings all over the place for viewer discreation and its up to the parent to decide if its ok for the kid to watch.

Do i blame the media for violence in the kid/person. NO. Why do i not blame the violence on these games. Its because MILLIONS and MILLIONS of other kids young and old still play these games and we have not heard of them killing anyone. They also see this on TV, Newspaper and on the News and we are still fine.


"Movies don't create phsychos, movies make phsychos more creative" Is probably the best line to describe this situation. (Also one of my fav Movie quotes) Same with the speech form Bill when he asked The Bride who she was. A born killer she has been since day one of her life or a simple record store mother to be in disguise. Maybe it was natural for them to eventually kill someone and this video game fanatic driven to kill is all just a simple disguise to hide that.

[Crow T. Robot]

I heard on another site that the police already said it had nothing to do with the game, I think they said drugs were the reason.

I was playing Mortal Kombat when i was like 7 and i remember the whole thing with that to.

[Chunkblower]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

Personally, I wouldn't mind MA games being illegal to sell to minors, as long as a parent can override that decision. Parents should always have the last word.

A lot of place voluntarily restrict the sale or rental of MA games to minors, which is as it should be. A lot of stores around here put all the MA games on a separate shelf or in a glass case. I even saw one case that had a sign: "If you're under 18, don't even ask". It gave me a good chuckle to see a couple of 11 year olds drool at the games and then sigh dejectedly when they saw the sign.

Stronger enforcement of ratings systems is always a better solution than dumbing down or banning games altogether.

[Crow T. Robot]

Found this on a site

"ELSPA Issues Open Letter to Home Secretary
Thursday 5 August 2004, London/... Roger Bennet, director general of ELSPA, has today issued an open letter to the Home Secretary, the Rt Hon David Blunkett MP, with regards to recent "misleading" media coverage on video games.

5th August 2004

Dear Mr Blunkett

COMPUTER & VIDEO GAMES

As the trade organisation representing the computer and video games industry, we have been very concerned recently about the misleading and disingenuous reporting about the effects of playing interactive games software. In particular, the tragic case of Stefan Pakeerah's murder by Warren Le Blanc in Leicester, which was linked by some parts of the media and by Mr Keith Vaz MP, to a video game called "Manhunt", published quite legally by one of our members as a BBFC 18+ rated game. We will continue to uphold the legal right of this member and others to target their product at the burgeoning adult market for computer and video games in an honest and legal manner.

As you will know, despite many research projects into the effects of screen violence, some of which have been undertaken by eminent academics in their field, no link with violent behaviour has been found. Furthermore, I would like to reassure you that ELSPA members, that includes all the companies responsible for the distribution of computer and video games in UK, fully conform with both the letter and spirit of the law and the strict Codes of Practice our members must adopt on enrolment. ELSPA, on behalf of all its members and the members themselves, take its responsibilities extremely seriously in the context of these matters.

As a matter of fact, I feel sure you will already be aware that less that 1% of computer and video games published and distributed in UK attract an 18+ BBFC Rating and that in excess of 65% of all games are suitable for all ages.

It was unfortunate that Mr Vaz should speak out so irrationally against the companies concerned with the development and distribution of "Manhunt" and indeed our industry in general. Had he taken time to check with the Leicestershire Constabulary, he would have been informed that they do not and have not ever linked this brutal crime with any video game.

The UK computer and video games industry has a large stake-holding in the global market worth $20 billion. Some of the most successful games in this valuable market are produced in UK, employing many thousands of people and it is very much in the vanguard of "Creative Britain". The economic and cultural value of the interactive entertainment software industry is well recognised by many Government Depts as a major contributor to the UK economy and increasingly a cultural factor, as illustrated by the international Games Festival in Edinburgh later this month. In addition, London will host the first European trade event, European Games Network (EGN), in September this year and London is also the location for an international conference, "The Games Summit", held annually in June. A major exhibition for consumers, entitled "Game Stars Live" will take place concurrently with EGN at Excel, Docklands.

As a matter of interest, you may not be aware that our industry charity, Entertainment Software Charity (ESC), of which I am a Trustee, has funded specialist Schools status for eight schools across the country this year. In addition, we have also recently confirmed with the DfES that the games industry will fund the building of a new "City Academy" in Paddington, London. I hope you will recognise this as another illustration of levels of responsibility we attach to the status of our industry.

I hope you will accept that we felt it necessary to put the record straight in respect to these tragic events and that are pleased to be in a position to be proud of our industry's successful achievements and the standards of responsibility we have adopted.

Yours sincerely

Roger Bennett
Director General
Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association"

[MooglePorn]

Somewhat related.

[MJZ]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

I guess there was a murder in England linked to the game Manuhunt, and Britain pulled the game from sale.

Correct, it was a 17 year old playing a game rated 18 by the BBFC and since all this has happened it's no longer in any shops/supermarkets.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by MJZ

Correct, it was a 17 year old playing a game rated 18 by the BBFC and since all this has happened it's no longer in any shops/supermarkets.

I respect a lot of things about your society and government, but I have to say you're ban-happy. What's the crime rate over there, compared?

[Enzian]

I can't remember the reference, but IIRC, the US is far and away the crime leader in most of the Western World.

Maybe I saw the stats on The Economist... damn. I just can't remember. I'm too busy to research it, right now.

[debz]

I was talking to a guy that works for rockstar canada (or whatever there local name is) and he mentioned it to me, he found it kinda funny that it got banned because of some stupid excuse someone decided to give.

[plissken99]

I don't remember the numbers, but gun deaths in England is a very small fraction of ours every year.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by plissken99

I don't remember the numbers, but gun deaths in England is a very small fraction of ours every year.

So is anyone willing to consider that maybe they're on to something?

[plissken99]

Nope, Canada for example; has all the violent movies and video games we do, but are also among the lowest percentage of gun deaths.

Video games and movies have never been linked with violent behavior.

[MooglePorn]

I agree, I was just trying to start conversation. I think its the high-stress cutthroat lifestyle we live, personally... At least I think that's a bigger part of it than Rockstar...

[plissken99]

Bowling For Columbine tried to put a finger on it, but draws a blank. It's a real mystery as to why America has the hihest murder rate of any country. Our gun deaths are around 1,200 every year, when Canada was I think around 150 or so. Japan takes the cake with only 16. And Japan is where the majority of these games come from.

It's not the racial diversity, as even Canada is well mixed. It may well be the break neck pace out society has, having to work 2 well paying jobs just to live paycheck to paycheck.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by plissken99

It's not the racial diversity, as even Canada is well mixed. It may well be the break neck pace out society has, having to work 2 well paying jobs just to live paycheck to paycheck.

Yeah... I think people are just SO stressed out that when they break, they BREAK.

[Enzian]

What is the cause of this "pace"? What can be done about it? [scritch scritch]

[MJZ]

If it's not films it's video games. You may as well ban Tom and Jerry cartoons!

Why don't they just accept that some people are crazy instead of looking for excuses, or is it easier to blame something else.

[Crow T. Robot]

The jackass is back at it

"The technique of killing civilians and then first-responders when they get there is the primary scenario to win in all the Grand Theft Auto games, they are killing simulators actually used by gangs."
-- Jack Thompson, Attorney"

LoL I guess he is talking about "Rampages" which is NOT the primary scenario, I love these guys.

[sub780lime]

i think stuff like this desensitizes us, but causes someone to kill, no way, maybe if they are 3 and seeing some stabbing someone, they might mimic that and find something pointy and have a stabbing motion. If someone wants to kill, they will do it, unless they truly are mentally disabled, they are very unlucky to mimic such an action without making the choice too.

to quote XXX "COME ON DICK! ITS ALL WE GOT"

[MooglePorn]

I think the media does have an effect on us... look at all the teens mimicing MTV for God's sake... but where I differ in opinion is that games are somehow worse because you "play them"... bullshit. The whole "killing people in a virtual world prepares you to kill in real life" BS is... well... BS.

[IKEA_boy]

Mimicking style and mimicking crime are two completely different things.

[MJZ]

I've seen Manhunt back on the shelves in some of the shops that had removed it following the incident.

[reeltime]

FYI, I posted an editorial on this topic awhile back:

For the last time: Violent videogames don't kill people…

Let me know what you think.