The missing link between Violence and Videogames!

[Enzian]

From The Economist:



The link is apparently that some kids are fucked-up and some aren't. Correlation or causation?

BTW - My boss is a therapist. We were talking about some of the students printing their D&D stuff, like characters and whatnot. "D&D?!" she exclaimed. "They're playing D&D!?"

See, she worked with a boy once who committed suicide because he played D&D.

"Wait. He committed suicide because he played D&D?"
"Yes."
"A direct cause?"
"Yes."
"Okay."

I left it at that, but there's no way she didn't pick up my obvious incredulity. We'll see how this goes.

How do wizards and orcs and halflings conspire to make someone kill themselves? Call me insensitive.

I also cracked a joke about porn in front of her, to her secretary. I got a dirty look for that one. Now I'm a deviant D&D player.

[littlebib]

You are missing the obvious link here...

While the number of violent crimes is decreasing, that's only because there's a lot less gang warfare out there because they're all at home playing the SIMS. Those remaining crimes are in the suburbs and small towns and are being committed by kids who have been playing GTA and Doom 3.

[furthest1]

There is just one case listed there that proves that a person who should have been on medication for mental problems did something stupid because he was too into a video game. That's not proof of anything.

[elwood731]

What a horribly misleading graph. One could make the argument that the rise in reality programming on TV also caused the drop in violence, since the two occur at the same time. I suppose you could argue that Bush going into office, or the Clinton sex scandal.

Now, is this maybe somewhat proof? Perhaps, but that graph alone is a joke.

[Wirehed]

Originally Posted by Enzian

From The Economist:BTW - My boss is a therapist. We were talking about some of the students printing their D&D stuff, like characters and whatnot. "D&D?!" she exclaimed. "They're playing D&D!?"

Heh, that's especially funny being that D&D is a Role Playing Game, something invented BY therapists to AID in treatment.




I've never understood people that condemn video games and D&D, or music or whatever for causing violence, as if humans have never had any violence in their past history. Muder, robbery and general violence never happened before evil media companies invented Rock Music!

[1138]

Easy answers to complex problems. Just plain lazy. A lot of it too is people making excuses for wanting to put down things they don't like.

[Iguana Man]

however, three important factors are generally overlooked: that attitudes to gaming are marked by a generational divide; that there is no convincing evidence that games make people violent; and that games have great potential in education.

I stopped reading that story right there.

I watched Bugs Bunny before some of the shows were labled politically incorrect. Try watching the originals NOW. Nope....they are deemed racist in nature. However, am I a racist? FUCK NO.

Cartoons were the same damn thing back then to what vid games are now in my opinion. Overall, GOOD parenting makes GOOD children.

I think blaming vid games for childrens behaviour overall is bullshit. And if the rest of that article that I didn't read backs me up fine...sorry for the rant. If it doesn't, well I say screw it.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Spank your kid! It's good for them.

[Enzian]

Originally Posted by elwood731

What a horribly misleading graph. One could make the argument that the rise in reality programming on TV also caused the drop in violence, since the two occur at the same time. I suppose you could argue that Bush going into office, or the Clinton sex scandal.

Now, is this maybe somewhat proof? Perhaps, but that graph alone is a joke.

Well, hang on a second there fella...

The premise is that the increase in violence is directly related to the increase in videogames. That's the premise.

If you want to debunk that premise, that graph seems to do a great job. No?

[elwood731]

Originally Posted by Enzian

If you want to debunk that premise, that graph seems to do a great job. No?

No. In fact, it does a terrible job. Why? Because it doesn't take into account a variety of other factors. For example, during the same period fewer guns might have been sold, which might have a lot more to do with it. Unfortunately, these stats do not exist in a vaccum and you can not directly link the two. Either positive or negative.

[FamilyGuyfanBOY]

It's a fact that most of the violent crimes commited by youths, are gang related. Most of the kids in gangs (I'd say a good 80-90%) live in poor neighborhoods, have one parent (who probably is an abusive dead beat/drunk all the time/in and out of prison), and as a result they find father figures and "homes" in gangs.

Unfortunatly now:

1)They don't develop proper morals.
2)They don't understand consiquence.
3)They feel they have nothing to live for.

It is truly tragic, and I doubt the video games have a direct result. However, I will not doubt that in suburbia land a violent game or movie may give an emotionally unstable child just the right motivation/push.

This is something I feel really strong about actually, because in my mid-teens me and my buddies had a close brush with a gang at a movie theatreand the emotional scars are healing slow. (I find it hard to spend to much time in heavily populated spots, among other things.)

[Wirehed]

Originally Posted by FamilyGuyfanBOY

It's a fact that most of the violent crimes commited by youths

How is that a fact? When most people are complaining about violence from video games they're refering to Columbine, which certianly was not even remotely gang related.

[FamilyGuyfanBOY]

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

How is that a fact? When most people are complaining about violence from video games they're refering to Columbine, which certianly was not even remotely gang related.

A&E ran a doc. on Columbine the other night. The boys were in-fact involved in a school gang (That involved them and 2-3 other students), and did some pretty shady cult related things.

You should catch it next time its on, I forget what its called but it was really interesting, but slightly disturbing...

[Wirehed]

So you're telling me a group of 5 goth kids are considered a gang now? I think that's a pretty week definition of "gang."

[FamilyGuyfanBOY]

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

So you're telling me a group of 5 goth kids are considered a gang now? I think that's a pretty week definition of "gang."

Is a "gang" not a group of any size that gets together to perform violent or illegal acts? A small "gang" yes, but still a "gang".

[Wirehed]

OK, I'm in a gang right now.

In fact I'm in more than one gang.

I guess I was in a lot of gangs in HS too.

[Enzian]

Originally Posted by elwood731

No. In fact, it does a terrible job. Why? Because it doesn't take into account a variety of other factors. For example, during the same period fewer guns might have been sold, which might have a lot more to do with it. Unfortunately, these stats do not exist in a vaccum and you can not directly link the two. Either positive or negative.

That makes sense.

Aren't we supposed to think that "all things being equal", though? I mean, there are a hojillion variables with every chart that aren't taken into consideration. Certainly we have to draw the line somewhere, right?

It's just a chart. All things being equal, it says what it says. Perhaps we should have a ton of charts about guns sales, adolecent ennui, blah blah blah.

[umainebearman]

And so it goes.

[Pirate]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060809...llifebrutality

WEDNESDAY, Aug. 9 (HealthDay News) -- Playing violent video games, even for only 20 minutes, desensitizes people to real-world violence, new research contends.


"We found that the subjects who played violent video games for 20 minutes had lower physiologic responses when they watched videos of real-life violence," said Nicholas Carnagey, who conducted the research while a psychology instructor at Iowa State University in Ames.


He explained that these lowered physical responses meant the person felt less emotional upset when viewing real-life brutality.


Prior studies have reported a correlation between exposure to violent video games and desensitization to real violence. But Carnagey's team say theirs is the first to expose subjects to video games and then measure their physiologic reactions to real-life violence through heart rate and galvanic skin response, which evaluates perspiration.


As heart rate and perspiration increase, so does emotional arousal, said Carnagey, who is now a professor of psychology at the University of Michigan and the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam.


Released online ahead of print in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, the study included 257 college students (124 men and 133 women) who were tested before and after playing violent or non-violent video games for 20 minutes. Violent games included Carmageddon, Duke Nukem, Mortal Kombat and Future Cop. Non-violent games included Glider Pro, 3D Pinball, 3D Munch Man and Tetra Madness.


All of the participants had similar heart rates and other signs of arousal before exposure to real-life violence, which included videotaped shootings, prison fights and police confrontations.


"The only time we saw physiologic differences [among participants] was while they were watching real-life violence," Carnagey said.


The people who played violent video games for 20 minutes had lower galvanic skin responses (lower perspiration) and heart rates while watching the real-life footage. "A lot of other studies on exposure to violent video games indicated that we would find this [desensitization], but it surprised us that only 20 minutes of exposure was enough to show this effect," Carnagey said.


Translated to the real world, these signs of lower emotional upset may mean a person is more desensitized to violence. He or she may also be less able to identify violence and less likely to help victims of violence, Carnagey explained.


The findings could raise a red flag for parents.


Even though the study targeted college students, "there's no doubt that these results apply to younger children, and there's every reason to be concerned that the effects be may even greater in those under the age of 7 because these children don't distinguish very well between fantasy and reality," said pediatrician Dimitri A. Christakis, director of the Child Health Institute at the University of Washington, Seattle, and author of the book The Elephant in the Living Room: Make TV Work for Your Kids.


Researchers already know that exposure to violent media in many different forms leads to violence and aggression in the real world, but the mechanism for how this occurs is less well-known. The study suggests that desensitization -- defined by researchers as a reduction in emotion-related physical reaction to real violence -- may be a critical factor in that pathway.


The caution for parents is real, Christakis said. "Children are much more media-savvy at a much younger age than their parents were," he noted.


Many parents believe that violent games won't make their children more violent, but they might not be witnessing any increase in aggressive behaviors first-hand, he noted. The negative effects of video game exposure often infiltrate children's real-life games, Christakis said. "This increasing violence is mutually enhancing in a negative way," he warned, because "it reinforces violence in their own lives."


Much of the media children watch is laden with violence, Carnagey added. In G-rated movies and games, violence is often packaged in a "cute and friendly manner," the Iowa researcher noted.


And "as children grow older, they're exposed to ever more realistic and gory scenes," he said. "Parents might say, 'My child is not ready to see that yet,' but what does that comment mean? When would children be ready to see someone beheaded?"

This unintended desensitization from exposure to very violent media can have a real impact on children's development, according to the researchers.

"In real life, were not talking about a simple 20-minute exposure, were talking about exposure that's hours on end, day after day," Carnagey said. "Parents should be aware and active in their child's exposure to media. They should really think about what messages they're exposing their children to."

The study also raises some important questions for future research, including whether the effects of short-term exposure to violent games lingers, and what the cumulative effect might be of playing violent video games over days, weeks, and years.

[MooglePorn]

I'm much more worried about what 20 minutes of MTV does to a kid.

[Wirehed]

There's a shock, violence desensitizes people to more violence. Video games are not unique to this.

[reapersaurus]

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

I've never understood people that condemn video games and D&D, or music or whatever for causing violence, as if humans have never had any violence in their past history.

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

There's a shock, violence desensitizes people to more violence. Video games are not unique to this.

So you went from dismissing any relationship between the two, to effectively saying "Duh - the connection is so obvious, it's not worth a study to conclude that."

Anyone who blithely dismisses the effect violent video games and music and media has on developing minds is ignoring the obvious, IMO.

[Wirehed]

No, my point stands; Videogames are not to blame for violence any more than any other medium. You can effectively desensitize people to violence by having them watch people throw rocks at each other too, it doesn't mean the rocks cause violence.

[SilentBob]

Wow on the research Kids are seeing more violence on TV News, school yards and at home all the time. Again media is too blame though for what parents aren't willing too accept is really their fault in the learning development of their kids. Blame the one thing that is there to raise the kid. Sure not all parents and kids are like that but its a pretty big fact that the TV is becoming the babysitter more then actual human interaction.

Bring on the reports because i guess i have been so desensitize reading 20 or so of these articles to really give a rats ass about it anymore.