Samsung BD-UP5000 hybrid HD DVD/BD Standalone

[Ruined]

http://www.stor-age.com/dongtai/xinp...04041220IY.asp

Supports 720p/1080i/1080p for both formats
HDMI 1.3
Meets specs of both formats, Full HDi/BD-J support
Faroujda DCDi Processing
~$699-$899 depending on final pricing of BD-P1200 (hybrid unit will be ~$100 more)

[videoworx]

excellent...

[Pirate]

Will this have 5.1 analog?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

excellent...

Only downside I see is that the extra cost of hybrid looks like it made Samsung go for the cheaper Faroujda DCDi over the more expensive Silicon Optix Reon HQV... What that means is that upscaling & deinterlacing wont be as good - not to mention though the most common 1080p60 will be available, I don't believe the DCDi offers 1080i60->1080p24 conversion like the Reon (a needed feature to get 1080p24 output when using HDi/BD-J & IME/PIP, as direct 1080p24 wont work for PiP due to the dual video decoders). The Reon, OTOH, supports this conversion so you will be able to get 1080p24 even when using IME/PiP. Might be a moot point anyway, though, as its likely any device that accepts 1080p24 probably has some amazing 1080i60 -> 1080p24 conversion builtin anyway (i.e. Sony Ruby).

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Will this have 5.1 analog?

No idea yet. It might not to cut down on costs so that its an affordable hybrid. Then again, it might since other Samsung players have offered analog 5.1.

[snipsnapsappy]

We have the BD-P1200 in stock, it is $799.99. So looks like it is $899.99

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by snipsnapsappy

We have the BD-P1200 in stock, it is $799.99. So looks like it is $899.99

Okay, many were speculating that since the BD-UP5000 won't be available until summer they may drop the price of the BD-P1200 to ~$599 by then to compete with the BDP-S300 and hence the BD-UP5000 may debut at a lower price as well.

[Iguana Man]

Well it's a start at least. Personaly, I'll wait until more units come out and get some hardcore reviews, but I do see myself buying one (dual format).

[chlngr1970]

When the combo units drop below $200US, I MIGHT consider buying one. I still won't buy any BRDs tho

j

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

When the combo units drop below $200US, I MIGHT consider buying one. I still won't buy any BRDs tho

j

Under $200?!?!?!

Damn....you got the 'wait' factor embeded in you far more than I.

[dugpa]

I'd be afraid of a sub $200 player myself. Hell, I wouldn't even buy a dvd player that cheap. Not a lot of room for quality components at that price.

[Pirate]

Sorry if I'm missing it, but is there a date for this yet or an ETA?

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Sorry if I'm missing it, but is there a date for this yet or an ETA?

Nothing official yet that I've seen. Julyish seems to be the current date. I'm sure fall is more realistic.

[bembol]

If this gets amazing reviews/come close to Toshiba HD-XA2 and I start seeing more from BD (Quality, Features, Interactivity) come fall...I'll consider this for the Family room.

[Ruined]

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...413_0000338109

Official!

Originally Posted by Samsung

Seoul, Korea – April 13, 2007 : Samsung Electronics Co., LTD., a leader in consumer electronics and digital media technologies, and the first company to introduce a Blu-ray disc player will introduce a dual format High-Definition (HD) optical disc player in time for the holidays.

Samsung’s Duo HD player (BD-UP5000) will fully support both HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats and their interactive technologies, HDi and BD-Java. With the Duo HD consumers can enjoy additional studio content such as trailers, director’s comments, more elaborate interactive menus and behind the scene footage. The new Duo HD joins Samsung’s next generation DVD line-up which includes Samsung’s second generation Blu-ray player available at retail this month. Together, these two models offer the consumer a strong line of High-Definition players to match Samsung’s award winning, and best selling, line of HDTVs.

"We welcome Samsung's Duo HD player as another solution in the marketplace that will help reduce consumer confusion and buyer hesitancy towards HD media," said Ron Sanders, President of Warner Home Video. "This is an innovative product that can move us closer to mainstream consumer adoption of HD technologies."

“We are very pleased to announce the upcoming release of our Duo HD player. Consumers are hungry for more HD content but are currently confused about competing formats. Samsung’s Duo HD player will allow consumers access to every HD movie title available regardless of the authoring format. Samsung is committed to making life simpler through technology and will market next generation DVD products which will satisfy the consumer and market requirement. This is a big win for the consumer.

And further....

As a member of the DVD Forum and contributor to the DVD Industry, we recognize that both HD-DVD and BD formats have merits. As such, we have decided to market a dual format player. Samsung is flexible to market a stand-alone HD-DVD player whenever consumers demand it. Our main concern is not technology but consumer choice” said Dongsoo Jun, Executive Vice President of the Digital AV Division at Samsung Electronics.

[chlngr1970]

Ok, so I liked the Samsung TVs, well the LCDs anyway , and since there was no mention of features like outputs, or chipsets, I guess we have a long wait ahead of us

j

[snipsnapsappy]

This will only prolong the format war. But it may be a nice way to replace my HD-D1 and save space if the quality is good enough.

[ganthc]

I don't know how it will necessarily prolong the format war, but it will be hedge against it. The war will be decided by software, or the library of movies. Whichever format has the better movie selection wins. Of course, you need to have a larger number of movie studios to compete. I imagine that will be a goal for Toshiba in 2008.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Whichever format has the better movie selection wins.

Not necessarily. There are a number of other factors like...

- Which format has the best value movies? Does it matter if a format has more movies if featureless catalog titles cost $39.99 (perhaps due to replication costs or other factors)?

- Which format do most movie-buyers have access to? People need to have the player and be actively using it for movies before a movie can be sold to that person.

- Which format is most cost effective for the studio? If people mostly have combo players, why bother releasing in the format that is more costly to produce even if you are a large studio? If you are a small studio, can you afford the big costs of the more expensive format?

- Which format is more consumer friendly? Many consumers may choose to buy more of one format if they feel it is more friendly to them (less DRM, more familiar name, more features, more flexibility, etc).

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Not necessarily. There are a number of other factors like...

- Which format has the best value movies? Does it matter if a format has more movies if featureless catalog titles cost $39.99 (perhaps due to replication costs or other factors)?

$40 for movies???? Where are you shopping? Most bd movies are $30 on average, and that's the same price as hd-dvd. And if the features cause movies to skip, where is the value-add? I don't know of a huge outcry against bd "featureless" discs. Obviously people are still buying them. With bd-j coming on, that might change as well.

- Which format do most movie-buyers have access to? People need to have the player and be actively using it for movies before a movie can be sold to that person.

No, I think it's the other way around. A series of movies comes out that people want in HD, they will go an buy the player of choice...or get the Samsung dual player, which is what this thread is about. With players that don't restrict by format, it will be the movies that sell the format...not the player itself. Samsung gets the money for that.

- Which format is most cost effective for the studio? If people mostly have combo players, why bother releasing in the format that is more costly to produce even if you are a large studio? If you are a small studio, can you afford the big costs of the more expensive format?

But the thing about small studios is that they don't produce mass movies, nor do they necessarily produce the movies that make lots of money. Sure they may win an Oscar or Golden Globe, but the winnings come from getting the big studios like Universal, Sony, Disney, Fox, Paramount, and Warner. You could even throw in Lionsgate and Weinsteins. The rest is not something that wins over format fans. Cost hasn't prevented any bd studios from switching over to hd-dvd, nor neutral studios to convert over to hd-dvd only, so it must not be a huge deal.

- Which format is more consumer friendly? Many consumers may choose to buy more of one format if they feel it is more friendly to them (less DRM, more familiar name, more features, more flexibility, etc).

This has become hackneyed in some regard. I'm sure people that will buy Casino Royale, POTC, and the Spiderman movies will obviously first consider whether Sony has offended them. It certainly hasn't stopped formerly hd-dvd only purchasers on this forum from going blu. Perhaps most people don't see the sheer evil that BD and Sony are, and just want to watch the movies?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

$40 for movies???? Where are you shopping? Most bd movies are $30 on average, and that's the same price as hd-dvd.

Most BD50 movies are $39.99 retail, especially Fox movies. Most HD30 movies are $29.99 retail. The only HD DVDs that are more than $39.99 in most cases are "combo" titles which have added functionality to a standard BD or HD movie. A few exceptions on HD DVD like King Kong & Babel - or the 2-disc World Trade Center set - but for the most part it holds that HD30 is 24.99-29.99 and BD50 is 34.99-39.99.

And, in retail prices 29.99 movies are generally sold for ~$25 and 39.99 movies are sold for ~$35 in places like Best Buy.

And if the features cause movies to skip, where is the value-add?

Lets not take things out of context or spread FUD. There are maybe 5 or so movies that have had glitches out of over 100 (unless you have cursed hardware like a certain forum member ). Most of the time, it wasn't the HDi that was causing the bug, it was a glitch in the player itself. And those glitches have been fixed (FW2.1 for HD-A1/XA1, FW1.5 for HD-A2/A20/XA2)

I don't know of a huge outcry against bd "featureless" discs. Obviously people are still buying them. With bd-j coming on, that might change as well.

One would have to ask then why there is still a majority preference for HD DVD, or why the attach rate for HD DVD is so much higher than BD.

No, I think it's the other way around. A series of movies comes out that people want in HD, they will go an buy the player of choice...or get the Samsung dual player, which is what this thread is about. With players that don't restrict by format, it will be the movies that sell the format...not the player itself. Samsung gets the money for that.

Right, but if the dual player is what the person buys, then they are buying both formats. If everyone buys both formats, then it goes back to the movie studio - why bother releasing in the format that is more expensive to manufacture if most everyone has both formats?

But the thing about small studios is that they don't produce mass movies, nor do they necessarily produce the movies that make lots of money. Sure they may win an Oscar or Golden Globe, but the winnings come from getting the big studios like Universal, Sony, Disney, Fox, Paramount, and Warner. You could even throw in Lionsgate and Weinsteins. The rest is not something that wins over format fans. Cost hasn't prevented any bd studios from switching over to hd-dvd, nor neutral studios to convert over to hd-dvd only, so it must not be a huge deal.

Cost has actually forced a number of smaller studios to switch to HD DVD. The larger ones you mentioned can absorb the cost of BD, or maybe are even getting some of it subsidized by Sony.

This has become hackneyed in some regard. I'm sure people that will buy Casino Royale, POTC, and the Spiderman movies will obviously first consider whether Sony has offended them. It certainly hasn't stopped formerly hd-dvd only purchasers on this forum from going blu. Perhaps most people don't see the sheer evil that BD and Sony are, and just want to watch the movies?

Well, that all depends on whether the BDA studios decide to "unleash" what BD+ is capable of. That hasn't happened yet, but it may be happening with Fox. We'll see what they do with it once the "honeymoon" BD early adopter phase is over.

Further, if someone goes to the store wanting to buy a High Definition DVD for their new player and sees HD DVD or b> as their choice, might not the more obvious and consumer friendly HD DVD name be the option they select - especially when talking about the masses at places like WalMart?


One last thing to consider. From Day One, it has been in HD DVD's "war plan" that the war ending in their favor begins with combo players. From Day One, it has been in Blu-Ray's "war plan" that the war ends in their favor with Blu-Ray dominating. This is based on comments made by BDA and HD DVD boqrd members. BDA members would always say "Blu-Ray alone will stand!" while HD DVD members would say "Both formats will stand." This latest development looks to play more into HD DVD's favor than Blu-Ray's, simply because it ensures HD DVD continues on and BD can't compete with price with HD DVD in the long run.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Most BD50 movies are $39.99 retail, especially Fox movies. Most HD30 movies are $29.99 retail. The only HD DVDs that are more than $39.99 in most cases are "combo" titles which have added functionality to a standard BD or HD movie. A few exceptions on HD DVD like King Kong & Babel - or the 2-disc World Trade Center set - but for the most part it holds that HD30 is 24.99-29.99 and BD50 is 34.99-39.99.

And, in retail prices 29.99 movies are generally sold for ~$25 and 39.99 movies are sold for ~$35 in places like Best Buy.

Go looking around bd shelves next time you are looking in a BB or CC. Bd movies are on average $29.99. Warner's are cheaper at $24.99, and Fox's are the most expensive at $34.99. Lionsgate also tends to be $24-29. BD-50 has little to do with that. That is totally in line with hd-dvd prices. I know because I have looked.

Lets not take things out of context or spread FUD. There are maybe 5 or so movies that have had glitches out of over 100 (unless you have cursed hardware like a certain forum member ). Most of the time, it wasn't the HDi that was causing the bug, it was a glitch in the player itself. And those glitches have been fixed (FW2.1 for HD-A1/XA1, FW1.5 for HD-A2/A20/XA2)

It hasn't just been "cursed" players. People are complaining about playback on the hd-a1. Whether you want to blame cheap hardware on the hd-a1 or poor discs, the glitches are not just something to laugh off. And there have been zero bd discs with playback issues at all. I'm sure Toshiba can fix it or use better parts in their newer players, but maybe there should be some concern that these cheap priced hd-dvd players will have the same problems as the hd-a1 has had. Even you had to send it back for repair. Now plissken has to as well? Didn't PH do so? That's just on this forum...and doesn't speak well for the product in general. Or maybe this forum is cursed?

One would have to ask then why there is still a majority preference for HD DVD, or why the attach rate for HD DVD is so much higher than BD.

The majority? Last I checked, BD still outsells hd-dvd. Just because Toshiba tells you that the attach rates are higher doesn't make it so. Their press release seemed to indicate that each hd-dvd owner was buying 8 discs a month. Whether that is true or not, it certainly isn't helping them sell more than bd. And whether you like it or not, bd movies have been getting great reviews from hd-dvd owners on this forum.

Right, but if the dual player is what the person buys, then they are buying both formats. If everyone buys both formats, then it goes back to the movie studio - why bother releasing in the format that is more expensive to manufacture if most everyone has both formats?

The reason there might be the more DRM. While you despise it, it actually is what studios are seeking to protect their content. Why should they choose a format that offers them no better protection than what they had on dvd?

Cost has actually forced a number of smaller studios to switch to HD DVD. The larger ones you mentioned can absorb the cost of BD, or maybe are even getting some of it subsidized by Sony.

Smaller studios matter not. They don't make the sales numbers that carry a format...if we are looking at the longevity of said format.

Well, that all depends on whether the BDA studios decide to "unleash" what BD+ is capable of. That hasn't happened yet, but it may be happening with Fox. We'll see what they do with it once the "honeymoon" BD early adopter phase is over.

And if it is successful, then it may be a selling point for studios to consider switching to bd, or solely to bd. I guess we will see.

Further, if someone goes to the store wanting to buy a High Definition DVD for their new player and sees HD DVD or b> as their choice, might not the more obvious and consumer friendly HD DVD name be the option they select - especially when talking about the masses at places like WalMart?

Or if they go into a BB, they will see Bluray plastered all over the place, or they will have seen Blu-ray ads in magazines or on TV or on the numerous studios dvd's and be more familiar with bluray. This goes back to the marketing of the formats, and the investment that Sony and the bda have placed in it, while Toshiba and Universal have sat on their asses...maybe hoping that consumers think the name "hd-dvd" is friendly and will purchase it without them having to market anything.

One last thing to consider. From Day One, it has been in HD DVD's "war plan" that the war ending in their favor begins with combo players. From Day One, it has been in Blu-Ray's "war plan" that the war ends in their favor with Blu-Ray dominating. This is based on comments made by BDA and HD DVD boqrd members. BDA members would always say "Blu-Ray alone will stand!" while HD DVD members would say "Both formats will stand." This latest development looks to play more into HD DVD's favor than Blu-Ray's, simply because it ensures HD DVD continues on and BD can't compete with price with HD DVD in the long run.

If you say so Ruined. Your whole M.O. on here has been to say that the cheapo players coming out in November will be the tipping point for hd-dvd. Now it's the dual player that will be the tipping point? Which is it? To me it seems that the tipping point for hd-dvd will be when it gets Disney, Fox, and Lionsgate to switch or become neutral. Barring that, it's only a matter of time before the tipping point benefits Sony. In the long run, price points will be negligible. Studio support won't be.

[chlngr1970]

Linky

Wonder if this will have a positive impact on their HD player?

j

[tomdkat]

I wonder how Samsung is able to do this when previous mentions of these kinds of players always seemed to have been snubbed by corporate politics.

Peace...