HD-DVD players out selling Blu-ray......in europe

[buckster666]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289116,00.html

Seems this war ain't over just yet.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by buckster666

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289116,00.html

Seems this war ain't over just yet.

Should say hd-dvd standalone players are outselling bd players in Europe.

The figures were for stand-alone players only and did not include sales of games consoles such as Sony Corp.'s (SNE) PlayStation 3, which contains a Blu-ray player.

[Pirate]

Fixed.

[Sehnzeleid]

I honestly think in the long run, standalone sales have much more impact.

[Ruined]

Its worthwhile to mention that HD DVD standalones are outselling BD standalones in the US as well.

[ganthc]

I also wonder how many of those players are just EA's buying a different model of player. How many EA's on this forum dumped their HD-A1 for a better gen player? It would be an interesting tidbit to throw in.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

I honestly think in the long run, standalone sales have much more impact.

How so? Whatever drives disc sales is what will have the most impact, and right now that's Sony's blu-ray toy.

[Shawn Watson]

We had a Sony rep at Blockbuster today telling us to not expect anything forthcoming for the PS3 until December. The boss has even sold all of his PS3 stuff after only owning it for a few months. And he was really hardcore about it in the beginning. And BB have also ceased selling anything to do with the PSP.

Shawn

[sub780lime]

The figures were for stand-alone players only and did not include sales of games consoles such as Sony Corp.'s (SNE) PlayStation 3, which contains a Blu-ray player.

Did the figures include sales of the HD Drive add-on for the 360? Is that being sold in Europe?

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by sub780lime

Did the figures include sales of the HD Drive add-on for the 360? Is that being sold in Europe?

Nope, doesn't include those either. It makes articles like these seem kind of hollow to me. You should count all players, and also analyze software sales, which are the real money maker for the studios. If there is a 2:1 margin of sales for bd in Europe, what does that say about all the increased players? In fact, I bet that hd-dvd software sales are so disappointing that Toshiba and the hd-dvd group has to whine to a European Commission to try and force studios to switch. Really this is just more in the way of PR battles that are being fought between Sony and Toshiba.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by ganthc

It makes articles like these seem kind of hollow to me.

Haven't read the article but will agree on faith. Problem is and will continue to be this simple truth: A 360 HDAO is a player in the #'s game. It's sole purpose is for one thing only. PS3, not the same. Can't tell what it's primary role is like the HDAO. Cant extrapolate good #'s as a result.

I do want to include the PS3 as a BR player in the #'s of h/w sold, but damnit...I just cant anymore. Not enough indepth criterea number crunching to support that so far.

Ganthc, dont use me as an example of your memory on these things either. I flip and flop like a fish out of water. Okay?



Am I on topic damnit!??

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Am I on topic damnit!??

I think so.

Finally.. what is it now, oh 15 months sinse inception.. we now have HD DVDs & BDs for rent & sale at blockbuster where I am. A good sign which should indicate there are people besides me buying HD equipment. Can't wait to unload all the DVDs I have upgraded to. 120+ title credit should buy me at least a few brand new HD DVDs or BDs there. Off topic sorry.

More HD DVD standalone players being sold compared to BD players in Euroland right?

Cool.

"European Commission to try and force studios to switch."

If successful this would also benefit Blu-Ray as well no? Means Universal can no longer be exclusive. I think sales are low in regard to people seeking titles outside NA which is why Toshiba is whining to the European Commission. OR, maybe the DVD forum wants regional coding for HD DVD titles.

Has anyone thought that people might have just bought a HD player for Upconversion only? I mean if I continued to collect DVDs only & never wanted to make the switch to HD, I would have bought the Toshiba HD DVD player for the upconversion.

The reason I think standalones are only counted is because 3.6 million PS3's have been sold worldwide & only 180,000 360 add-on drives.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Haven't read the article but will agree on faith. Problem is and will continue to be this simple truth: A 360 HDAO is a player in the #'s game. It's sole purpose is for one thing only. PS3, not the same. Can't tell what it's primary role is like the HDAO. Cant extrapolate good #'s as a result.

I do want to include the PS3 as a BR player in the #'s of h/w sold, but damnit...I just cant anymore. Not enough indepth criterea number crunching to support that so far.

Ganthc, dont use me as an example of your memory on these things either. I flip and flop like a fish out of water. Okay?



Am I on topic damnit!??

Then if you can't get an accurate reading off of total # of players, the real gauge on performance has to be software. At this point, and with the recent price drop, the ps3 still remains the best bd player out there. The fact that it's not counted because it's hard to say what it's used for basically skews the numbers when you look at only standalone players...which is probably the purpose anyways.

But you don't skew software sales. They are what they are, a true indicator of how well a format is performing.

[buckster666]

If the EU were successful in forcing all movie studios to support both formats, HD-DVD would have the clear benefit from this as it's region free, people in the US can import HD-DVD from europe, but as Blu-ray is regional coded, it would only benefit Blu-ray owners in europe.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by buckster666

If the EU were successful in forcing all movie studios to support both formats, HD-DVD would have the clear benefit from this as it's region free, people in the US can import HD-DVD from europe, but as Blu-ray is regional coded, it would only benefit Blu-ray owners in europe.

I believe that studios determine the region coding on bd. Not all bd movies are region coded.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Then if you can't get an accurate reading off of total # of players, the real gauge on performance has to be software.

No, the real hardware gauge is correct and identifiable #'s. Those should have a break down of how many PS3 owners use their PS3 for HD movie watching on a somewhat consistent basis. On the software side the #'s need to reflect (subtract?) the amount of included HD dvds packaged with the PS3.

The KK package with the HDAO is simple, it should be included in s/w sales since you bought the damn thing for ONE purpose, and that is obvious.

I'm content knowing the real #'s for these discussions will never be known. So be it, and for ME, future #'s are going to be somewhat meaningless as a result. Time is what will tell, and that we unfortunately have to wait for.

[orko007]

As a few have stated, it needs to be based on software sales.

Standalone players isnt a way to judge. My PS3 is 50% games, 50% film. But as it's not a standalone it doesn't count. Why would I want to buy a stand alone player, when I already have one - which is one of the better ones on the market.

Keep it on discs sales, and in 12 - 24 months we'll be further along on who is winning and who is doomed.

[Ruined]

Standalones owners by far buy much more movies than game owners. While some game owners buy movies, they buy far fewer movies and some don't buy any at all. This is proved by the fact that there are 6x as many Blu-Ray players sold as HD DVD if you include the PS3, but the market is split 60/40 in software sales.

And for the record, Warner Bros. who is format neutral agrees with me:
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/ne...vd-claim.phtml

Originally Posted by Warner Bros. Senior VP of HD Media

Taking a swipe at the Blu-ray stats that are bolstered by the number of PS3's sold, Steve Nickerson, senior vice president, high hefinition media at Warner Bros sates:

"These figures are especially important because the standalone player market is by far the biggest driver of movie sales in the long-term."

"This is simply because those who buy a standalone player are interested solely in buying and watching movies and other video content, whereas those with HD drives built into games consoles are primarily interested in games."

Independent studies also verify this as well:
http://www.thediffusiongroup.com/The...-Uncertain.htm

Originally Posted by Diffusion Group

13% of gamers use their console for movies. Of that 13%, 75% are only using standard DVD.

[Derb]

meh,

The biggest thing HD DVD has had going for it was/is price right? These people bought HD DVD for non other than HD DVD mmk. The biggest thing the PS3 had going for it was the ability to playback Blu-Ray at the current price of HD DVD standalones last year.

I'd agree if we were talking DVD on game consoles. Both the 360 & PS2 suck!