Should Ruined get a new HDTV?

[Ruined]

Current HDTV is an ISF calibrated Sony 480p/1080i CRT HDRPTV.

As much as I love CRT black, the new DLP and LCOS sets seem to have a pretty good lock on it. And, now that these sets have builtin 120hz I can get TRUE 1080p (1080p24) instead of bastardized 1080p60.

So the question. Should I buy an RPTV DLP/LCOS or save up for a front projector.

Sony KDS-60A3000, I am looking at you.

[Ruined]

Based on the massive response of 1 I've gotten on this poll, I guess I'll have to buy a new TV (thanks guys! )!

Anyway, I am getting it for 1900 after tax and home delivery. Not bad I think.

[ganthc]

Posting on the weekend, isn't always the best time. I would have voted for the TV. Post some pics when the TV is set up, and congrats on the new purchase!

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Posting on the weekend, isn't always the best time. I would have voted for the TV. Post some pics when the TV is set up, and congrats on the new purchase!

Well, I didn't buy it yet. But I will tomorrow around noon most likely.

[Mr. Furious]

Don't do it! Wait for the projector. You'll be glad you did!

[Taxi]

You've gotten five responses in 12 hours over a Sunday night... What were you expecting?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Don't do it! Wait for the projector. You'll be glad you did!

Hmm, I agree it would be far better. The problem is the projector I want is $5000 when this TV is $1900 shipped. With my current budget, it would be near impossible to justify a $5000 expenditure (plus screen cost).

For $2k, this set should be a massive improvement from my current set.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

You've gotten five responses in 12 hours over a Sunday night... What were you expecting?

I was just joking around.

[rixrex]

What's the problem with the old set? Just getting too clunky for you? Or are you going HD in a big way now?

Anyway, I was looking to get a new set about a year ago, as I too have an older CRT rear proj. model Pioneer Elite 64", which is about 8 yrs old. But I could not find any that gave me the kind of picture I got with the Pioneer when using my DVDO HD upconvertor, either via component or DVI. And I actually took the DVDO into the stores to check it out.

So, since the Pioneer is used only for film watching, and broadcast TV and sports are viewed on my still sweet CRT Mitsubishi, and the Pioneer has enough life left that I changed my mind.

Well, if you have the room you can always keep the Sony setup elsewhere in the house.

[Shadowman82]

I'd get the TV .

[plissken99]

Get the JVC HD1, true it's twice the price(found it for $4200 actually), but you get several times the enjoyment from it. No way a puny TV can match it. Rear projection sets are just no good, the viewing angle thing would drive me bonkers.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Get the JVC HD1, true it's twice the price(found it for $4200 actually), but you get several times the enjoyment from it. No way a puny TV can match it. Rear projection sets are just no good, the viewing angle thing would drive me bonkers.

Is the viewing angle thing that big a deal on a 60" TV?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Is the viewing angle thing that big a deal on a 60" TV?

I think with most RPTVs the viewing angle still is a problem when standing, the picture generally gets much dimmer due to the reflection angle of the mirror. Being that I don't stand when watching movies, its generally not much of a concern for me.

Realistically the JVC would cost $6000 after screen + tax + delivery. That is 3x as much as this 60" Sony TV and way over my budget. So hopefully the Sony will deliver a satisfying experience. If not, I'll opt for the Samsung 120hz LED DLP, but right now more problems seem to be getting reported with that set and DLP in general.

I am still pretty excited about the price I got this for.

[ganthc]

Dude, that price is a steal. I have to admit I have been tempted to buy it, but I am not going to. I must display some modicum of willpower.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Dude, that price is a steal. I have to admit I have been tempted to buy it, but I am not going to. I must display some modicum of willpower.

Well the thing to look forward to if you hold out is likely laser-driven display in 2008 instead of lamp-driven - less maintainence needed. Though sets like that may be a lot more expensive.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by rixrex

What's the problem with the old set? Just getting too clunky for you? Or are you going HD in a big way now?

Anyway, I was looking to get a new set about a year ago, as I too have an older CRT rear proj. model Pioneer Elite 64", which is about 8 yrs old. But I could not find any that gave me the kind of picture I got with the Pioneer when using my DVDO HD upconvertor, either via component or DVI. And I actually took the DVDO into the stores to check it out.

So, since the Pioneer is used only for film watching, and broadcast TV and sports are viewed on my still sweet CRT Mitsubishi, and the Pioneer has enough life left that I changed my mind.

Well, if you have the room you can always keep the Sony setup elsewhere in the house.

My main problem with my current set is that the focus is off in a big way on the left 1/3rd of the screen. I had it checked out by an ISF calibrator/ex-repairman and its an inherent characteristic in the green CRT of the TV that cannot be fixed. As a result, when I play HD DVDs such as Chronos with text near the sides I cannot read text on the left side of the screen, and in general the focus issue resutls in the left 1/3 of the screen essentially having SD resolution or lower. I will be more vigilent when examining the focus of this new TV I get. Note that this is within Sony's tolerance levels hence it is not considered defective or repairable.

Secondly, it only uses 7" guns and there is no way it is resolving 1920x1080 resolution. Its probably around 900 or something in the center of the screen, 480 on the left side of the screen and 720 on the right side of the screen. I am hoping this new TV will be more consistent.

Also, it has one of those plastic glare screens which makes the movie look less filmlike.

Though the colors on my current TV look beautiful and black level is great, in terms of focus and resolution it is not satisfying me.

[Derb]

Wait for SED.

The 1080/24 isn't as great as I expected. My folks have one & I brought over a few titles which have noticeable judder. The true 24p didn't do a damn thing.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Derb

Wait for SED.

SED is dead IMO. Flat panel LCD will eventually steamroll all, IMO.

The 1080/24 isn't as great as I expected. My folks have one & I brought over a few titles which have noticeable judder. The true 24p didn't do a damn thing.

That's because you unfortunately bought the wrong TV if you were interested in true 1080p24 judder-free display - you are still watching at 1080p60 whether you realize it or not:
Pulled the trigger on a 3rd SXRD

The Sony SXRD 2020 series you have is a 60hz set. 60hz is not divisible by 24. Therefore any 1080p24 you send it will be converted to 1080p60 with 3:2 cadence and as a result be displayed at 60hz with judder. For instance, if you had a film with first 4 frames ABCD, on your set the ABCD would be displayed as AAABBCCCDD in order to match up with the 60hz refresh rate. The uneven display timing from frame to frame (3:2:3:2) is what causes the judder. So while your set accepts 1080p24, it is not displaying 1080p24 but rather converting it to 1080p60.

The set that I purchased above (Sony SXRD 3000 series) is a 120hz set. 120hz is divisible by 24, and thus any 1080p24 signal sent will be have its frames essentially multiplied by 5 and displayed at 120hz - therefore no judder should be visible as there is no need for the uneven 3:2 cadence we see with 60hz sets. On my set, using the same film with 4 frames ABCD, it should be displayed as AAAAABBBBBCCCCCDDDDD in order to match up with the 120hz refresh rate. In this case, the display timing from frame to frame is even (5:5:5:5) and hence judder should be eliminated - with original 1080p24 sequence preserved. The 3000 series is the first SXRD series from Sony that features 120hz.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Ruined

That's because you unfortunately bought the wrong TV if you were interested in true 1080p24 judder-free display - you are still watching at 1080p60 whether you realize it or not:
Pulled the trigger on a 3rd SXRD

The Sony SXRD 2020 series you have is a 60hz set. 60hz is not divisible by 24. Therefore any 1080p24 you send it will be converted to 1080p60 with 3:2 cadence and as a result be displayed at 60hz with judder. For instance, if you had a film with first 4 frames ABCD, on your set the ABCD would be displayed as AAABBCCCDD in order to match up with the 60hz refresh rate. The uneven display timing from frame to frame (3:2:3:2) is what causes the judder. So while your set accepts 1080p24, it is not displaying 1080p24 but rather converting it to 1080p60.

The set that I purchased above (Sony SXRD 3000 series) is a 120hz set. 120hz is divisible by 24, and thus any 1080p24 signal sent will be have its frames essentially multiplied by 5 and displayed at 120hz - therefore no judder should be visible as there is no need for the uneven 3:2 cadence we see with 60hz sets. On my set, using the same film with 4 frames ABCD, it should be displayed as AAAAABBBBBCCCCCDDDDD in order to match up with the 120hz refresh rate. In this case, the display timing from frame to frame is even (5:5:5:5) and hence judder should be eliminated - with original 1080p24 sequence preserved. The 3000 series is the first SXRD series from Sony that features 120hz.

Oh I know my tv SXRD 2020 doesn't support True 24/P

My parents bought a flat panel XBR or no 3000W bravia series which does support True 24/P & their BD player also supports True 24/P. The judder issues are the same on both my display & theirs.

Every tv has cons, so my advise is to stick with LCD. Black levels are not as great as Plasma but at least you have no glare & PQ is.. well awesome.

[Shadowman82]

Actually Sony's latest LCD TVs have quite good black levels , I'm talking about the new high end Bravia line that also does 120Hz and all that stuff .

According to a review on CNET these Sony LCD TVs have a real life Contrast ratio of 2000:1 when the Advanced Iris feature is turned on which is very good for an LCD TV .

[Ruined]

Yeah, they are much smoother than 60hz TVs too, however you have to have the 3 motion settings set properly in order to get 1080p24. There will of course be 24fps natural film judder, the key is the unnatural 3:2 judder will be eliminated.