Upconverting DVD Player thoughts

[Jesse C.]

Hi to the group,

I am getting an HD Mitsubishi DLP and I am currently thinking of getting an Oppo upconverting DVD player until the HD formats are more settled. Not only that, with over 340 DVDs, I really don't want to start replacing them all, yet!

So, any thoughts or expiriences out there with this unit or upconverters?

Sorry if this has already been covered, I could not find the posting if it was.

TIA!

[umainebearman]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread like this too considering my new purchase. I'm really not even sure what to look for other than the obvious HDMI port which I assume is on all upconvert players.

What does the player actually do to make regular dvds look better. I thought one movie on a regular dvd player would look the same a a UC player.

Is there a big difference between a good UC player and say a progressive scan player?

Questions I never needed answered with a 200 lb. 32 in Sony 4:3. Now need answers with a 42 inch 65 lb. LG.

Its like a season of Lost really.

[plissken99]

Your TV will actually upscale the DVDs same as an upscaling player. Thing is, if you get a good upscaling player, it will do a better job than the TV. Many players have high quality scaling chips in them, usually better than the ones in HDTVs. Scaling basically copies existing lines of resolution, and puts them on the screen. The result is a smoother sharper image, and for large displays like a 65in set, it's a must. Of course being modern digital TVs, they have scalers built in, but not as good as scalers in most players.

Food for thought: I used the Oppo 971H before I went to HD-DVD. The Toshiba A1 was a major jump in PQ for standard DVDs. The image was sharper, and color reproduction was far better than the Oppo(by comparison DVDs on the Oppo look dull and washed out). The cheaper HD-DVD players aren't much more expensive, especially considering all the Xmas sales.

[umainebearman]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Food for thought: I used the Oppo 971H before I went to HD-DVD. The Toshiba A1 was a major jump in PQ for standard DVDs. The image was sharper, and color reproduction was far better than the Oppo(by comparison DVDs on the Oppo look dull and washed out). The cheaper HD-DVD players aren't much more expensive, especially considering all the Xmas sales.

Yeah thats sort of what I'm trying to avoid, jumping into the whole HD dvd / Blu ray war. However if I where to jump in I am leaning way more toward hd dvd than blu ray. Don't ask me why people. I've done unavoidable reading and thats what I've choosen if drafted in this war.

Is the oppo the best uc player around. Of course there no way to tell the scaler quality in my tv. However my dvd player is pretty old (a JVC xv-s65) it does say digital progressive scan on it. I never knew it was a progressive scan player till last night. I did check out Episode 3 and The Incredibles on my dvd player last night and could tell some obvious quality differences. I have seen hd dvd and br so yeah I know theres still a huge quality jump to be had.

Oh Jesse sorry to hijack your thread.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by umainebearman

Yeah thats sort of what I'm trying to avoid, jumping into the whole HD dvd / Blu ray war.

But if one of the HD DVD players provide better UC than an Oppo at a comparable price, why not go with the HD DVD player?

You could just consider it a regular DVD player and not buy any HD DVD software, and then you've still not jumped into the war or spent any money you wouldn't otherwise spend.

Makes sense to me.

KM

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

But if one of the HD DVD players provide better UC than an Oppo at a comparable price, why not go with the HD DVD player?

You could just consider it a regular DVD player and not buy any HD DVD software, and then you've still not jumped into the war or spent any money you wouldn't otherwise spend.

Makes sense to me.

KM

Indeed. Only downside to that is the player takes longer (noticeably) to recognize what disc is in the player so load times might be bothersome.

[Ruined]

I agree, it seems rather foolish to blow money on an Oppo when you can get a Toshiba HD-A3 or Venturer SHD7000 (based on HD-A3 ref. design) for around the same price and they both upconvert better than the Oppo. Plus you'll have access to HD DVD too, even if you only want to rent due to the format wars.

People need to get used to the idea that the war is not going away. At least with a cheap HD player you can not only upconvert standard DVD but also start buying HD discs. You may think, "well, what if I buy the format that does not win?" Neither format may ever "win," and if one does "win" it not might be for another 5 years. And with all the new dual format players, you are guaranteed to be able to play either format for years and years to come.

One thing is for sure, though. By continuing to buy DVD you are buying into the format that is guaranteed to be outdated, nevermind having the possibility of being outdated like either of the HD formats. So IMO buying DVD is much more a waste than either HD format, even if said HD format "loses" sometime down the road. Your discs and players aren't going to evaporate into thin air if the format you choose loses. Heck, you can still buy laserdisc players from Pioneer and that "lost" over a decade ago!

[sub780lime]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I agree, it seems rather foolish to blow money on an Oppo when you can get a Toshiba HD-A3 or Venturer SHD7000 (based on HD-A3 ref. design) for around the same price and they both upconvert better than the Oppo. Plus you'll have access to HD DVD too, even if you only want to rent due to the format wars.

People need to get used to the idea that the war is not going away. At least with a cheap HD player you can not only upconvert standard DVD but also start buying HD discs. You may think, "well, what if I buy the format that does not win?" Neither format may ever "win," and if one does "win" it not might be for another 5 years. And with all the new dual format players, you are guaranteed to be able to play either format for years and years to come.

One thing is for sure, though. By continuing to buy DVD you are buying into the format that is guaranteed to be outdated, nevermind having the possibility of being outdated like either of the HD formats. So IMO buying DVD is much more a waste than either HD format, even if said HD format "loses" sometime down the road. Your discs and players aren't going to evaporate into thin air if the format you choose loses. Heck, you can still buy laserdisc players from Pioneer and that "lost" over a decade ago!

Agreed. Spend the money on an HD player that will upconvert your sd-dvd's anyway.

[Semper Fi Guy]

Are there any HD-DVD players that play xvid and are all-region (for SD-DVD)? Because that's a really good reason to own an Oppo.

[Sehnzeleid]

I will point out one of the advantages of an Oppo is PAL DVD, DVD-A, and SACD support.

Though the ability to play HD DVDs trumps those for most people.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Semper Fi Guy

Are there any HD-DVD players that play xvid and are all-region (for SD-DVD)? Because that's a really good reason to own an Oppo.

No, but the Toshiba HD-A3 & Venturer SHD7000 can play homemade DVD-R authored 1080p HD discs which can be sourced from an xvid stream (just need to transcode it to an HD DVD codec) and HD DVD has no regions so you can play HD DVDs from anywhere (just not DVDs).

So while you are not getting the extended SD functionality of the Oppo, you essentially get similar functionality except in HD - which is better anyway. And of course, you also get all the standard upconverting features of the Oppo with the Venturer/Toshiba.

[Semper Fi Guy]

Originally Posted by Ruined

No, but the Toshiba HD-A3 & Venturer SHD7000 can play homemade DVD-R authored 1080p HD discs which can be sourced from an xvid stream (just need to transcode it to an HD DVD codec) and HD DVD has no regions so you can play HD DVDs from anywhere (just not DVDs).

So while you are not getting the extended SD functionality of the Oppo, you essentially get similar functionality except in HD - which is better anyway. And of course, you also get all the standard upconverting features of the Oppo with the Venturer/Toshiba.

So you'd have to reconvert an xvid to something else (thereby losing further quality, on something already heavily compressed) and it still doesn't play R2 SD-DVDs? I thought that's what I said already.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Semper Fi Guy

So you'd have to reconvert an xvid to something else (thereby losing further quality, on something already heavily compressed)

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/07/03...vds-on-dvd-rs/

If you do a good job with the compression you shouldn't lose anything signficant - as you said, xvid as already heavily compressed so its not like you are going from pristine HD video to artifact-city. You already have artifacting anyway, and you shouldn't gain signficant additional artifacts if you encode well. Even if you do, though, its not the end of the world as you started with a mediocre source to begin with.

Originally Posted by Semper Fi Guy

and it still doesn't play R2 SD-DVDs?

So? You could simply rip the R2 SD DVD and burn it as R1. Convert PAL to NTSC if necessary. Problem solved.

The Oppo cannot play any true HD DVD high definition discs at all, and there is no workaround for that. While on the other hand, the Toshiba HD-A3 and Venturer SHD7000 can play HD DVDs from around the globe as there is no region coding. That is a far bigger advantage than being able to natively play xvid files, as you can simply convert them or stream them if you have a 360/PS3. The quality of HD DVDs is stunning and IMO a much more desired feature than some of the functions you are looking for.

[plissken99]

Originally Posted by Semper Fi Guy

So you'd have to reconvert an xvid to something else (thereby losing further quality, on something already heavily compressed) and it still doesn't play R2 SD-DVDs? I thought that's what I said already.

There's no arguing the Oppo is great for DIVX and Xvid files, and it's region free capabilities, thats why I still have it. And even if you rip an R2 DVD to strip it's region coding, the HD-DVD players won't output PAL discs. So it is a decision there. With HD-DVD players you get much much better PQ, and with the Oppo you get region free and Divx discs. I myself will side with PQ every time(especially with a 65in screen), but I have both so I'm one to talk.

[PunkMunkey]

Originally Posted by Ruined

[url]The Oppo cannot play any true HD DVD high definition discs at all, and there is no workaround for that. While on the other hand, the Toshiba HD-A3 and Venturer SHD7000 can play HD DVDs from around the globe as there is no region coding. That is a far bigger advantage than being able to natively play xvid files, as you can simply convert them or stream them if you have a 360/PS3. The quality of HD DVDs is stunning and IMO a much more desired feature than some of the functions you are looking for.

It really does boil down to a matter of opinion and desire...if all one is looking for is good SD-DVD upconverted playback, then it might be in thier interest to explore one of the next gen players...but the Oppos do so much more than just upconverts DVDs so thier usefulness should not be discounted.

As stated earler, with the Oppos you get DivX/XviD playback (without jumping through hoops), you get DVD-A/SACD support, you get region free playback for all DVDs and PAL/NTSC conversion...which is why, despite having both an HDDVD and Blu-Ray player, I still have my Oppo connected. It's usefulness has not been supplanted by EITHER next gen format.


To the original poster - if you're still not decide on the next gen formats and feel like you could benefit from the other features that the Oppo offers then go ahead with one of the Oppo players. They're great machines and Oppo's customer service is to notch. If all you're looking for is a good upconverting video disc player and think you might want to jump into HD on disc in the near future then go with an HDDVD or Blu-Ray player.

[MrMike]

I'm going for the stupid question here. Is there is difference in picture quality between a SD upconverted and an HD/BD of the same film?

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I'm going for the stupid question here. Is there is difference in picture quality between a SD upconverted and an HD/BD of the same film?

Oh boy.

I'm sorry...

[plissken99]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I'm going for the stupid question here. Is there is difference in picture quality between a SD upconverted and an HD/BD of the same film?

... yeah.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I'm going for the stupid question here. Is there is difference in picture quality between a SD upconverted and an HD/BD of the same film?

Yes x 1000.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I'm going for the stupid question here. Is there is difference in picture quality between a SD upconverted and an HD/BD of the same film?

Some people won't notice it. But as you become more accustomed to watching HD Video, you notice it if you go back to standard definition. I don't really watch sd channels on TV anymore, and I rarely watch s-dvd's, unless it's TV series or movies I can't get on high def. One thing that is often corrected is edge enhancement. Funny really, because I didn't notice it too much when I only watched standard def. An example would be "A Few Good Men" where the edge enhancement on the s-dvd is terrible, but it's gone on the bd version. Detail pops often as do the colors when you watch on high def.

But personally, I really like the sound upgrades for high def. I think that you get a much more immersive and dynamic experience, even if it's a 640 kbps DD+ track.

[Semper Fi Guy]

Originally Posted by Ruined

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/07/03...vds-on-dvd-rs/

If you do a good job with the compression you shouldn't lose anything signficant - as you said, xvid as already heavily compressed so its not like you are going from pristine HD video to artifact-city. You already have artifacting anyway, and you shouldn't gain signficant additional artifacts if you encode well. Even if you do, though, its not the end of the world as you started with a mediocre source to begin with.

The accompanying thread on AVS makes this sound not just expensive (with all the software you'd have to buy), and therefore counterproductive, but also pretty time consuming for each disc, especially as you would seem to require a dual layer disc, which tends to cost a minimum of 5 times what a single layer disc does. I tend to prefer just burning the file on a regular dvd-r and forgetting about it, instead of going through hours of steps, just for a minimal difference on an already compromised source.

So? You could simply rip the R2 SD DVD and burn it as R1. Convert PAL to NTSC if necessary. Problem solved.

The Oppo cannot play any true HD DVD high definition discs at all, and there is no workaround for that. While on the other hand, the Toshiba HD-A3 and Venturer SHD7000 can play HD DVDs from around the globe as there is no region coding. That is a far bigger advantage than being able to natively play xvid files, as you can simply convert them or stream them if you have a 360/PS3. The quality of HD DVDs is stunning and IMO a much more desired feature than some of the functions you are looking for.

Again, what a huge effort for one disc. This thread is simply about the visual bump between an HD-DVD player on SD material, not the fact that Oppo (who have phenomenal customer service) can't do HD, which has limited software choices anyway. Do any HD-DVD players have USB in, like the new Oppo does?

[LeChuck]

I am considering getting an upconverting dvd player for my projector, but need it to be region free. Can anyone suggest a cheaper alternative to the Oppo for a multi region upconverting dvd player?

Another question: my projector can display 720p and 1080i but does not have HDMI, only component, composite, s-video, and DVI. I am using component right now for my DVD player, but does a component connection allow for a full 720p or 1080i upconversion?

[Synaptic Flow]

[quote=plissken99;861862]Your TV will actually upscale the DVDs same as an upscaling player. Thing is, if you get a good upscaling player, it will do a better job than the TV. Many players have high quality scaling chips in them, usually better than the ones in HDTVs. Scaling basically copies existing lines of resolution, and puts them on the screen. The result is a smoother sharper image, and for large displays like a 65in set, it's a must. Of course being modern digital TVs, they have scalers built in, but not as good as scalers in most players.




I have a 32" Westinghouse HDTV. I used a non upscaling DVD player and the picture looked normal. I bought a sub $40 upconverting DVD player (that will remain nameless) and now the picture fills more of the screen and looks better. I to had wanted an Oppo, but when I can get satisfaction at this price, my next purchase will be an HD DVD player whenever I am ready.

What I can't understand is if my TV already up converted, why does the image fill more of the screen with the upconverting player?

[umainebearman]

I think I'll hold off on replacing the ole JVC I have untill after the 1st of the year. If the good upconverts are still close in price to the Hd dvd stand alones thats the way I'll go. I like th 360 HDAO but if the 360 goes down then well there goes the HD play back.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Semper Fi Guy

The accompanying thread on AVS makes this sound not just expensive (with all the software you'd have to buy), and therefore counterproductive, but also pretty time consuming for each disc, especially as you would seem to require a dual layer disc, which tends to cost a minimum of 5 times what a single layer disc does. I tend to prefer just burning the file on a regular dvd-r and forgetting about it, instead of going through hours of steps, just for a minimal difference on an already compromised source.

You don't have to use a dual lyaer disc, thats only if you want maximum quality. Obviously you can encode to DVD-5 if you choose.

Again, what a huge effort for one disc. This thread is simply about the visual bump between an HD-DVD player on SD material, not the fact that Oppo (who have phenomenal customer service) can't do HD, which has limited software choices anyway. Do any HD-DVD players have USB in, like the new Oppo does?

It is mandatory in the HD DVD spec for HD DVD players to have 2 USB ports, as all current HD DVD players do.