Xbox 360 w/ internal HD DVD at CES?

[Sehnzeleid]

Via PS3 Center:

Microsoft Releasing Xbox 360 with Internal HD DVD Drive

Posted by Victor Dangelo | Jan 1, 2008 15:33

According to reports, Microsoft and Bill Gates may be set to reveal a brand new Xbox 360 model at CES which will have a built-in HD DVD drive.

The new Xbox 360 SKU will replace the current Microsoft Xbox 360 Elite console which has been rumored for a little while now to be discontinued shortly.

The Seattle Times’ Brier Dudley has stated that Bill Gates is going to talk a great deal about the Xbox 360 at CES, touting the success of the console with the higher games sold per console attach rate compared to the Nintendo Wii and Sony PS3.

The reports are that Microsoft may be working to bring out a brand new Xbox 360 SKU which will have a built-in HD DVD drive.

The other news is that Microsoft may be ready to license the Xbox gaming platform to consumer-electronics companies. This would mean that they could license the hardware to companies such as Toshiba to develop an Xbox 360 with a digital video recorder and hard drive.

If true, this will prove Michael Bay's assertion Microsoft wants HD DVD to fail.

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Via PS3 Center:



If true, this will prove Michael Bay's assertion Microsoft wants HD DVD to fail.

Interesting rumor. Wonder why a PS3 site is reporting it tho I would consider picking one up.

j

[Sehnzeleid]

Via CNBC:

Microsoft's Xbox: Coming Soon With HD-DVD?

Posted By:Jim Goldman

Sources I'm talking to at the company suggest that an announcement could come soon that Microsoft will unveil a new version of Xbox 360 featuring a built-in HD-DVD player and HD tuner. The device might be officially unveiled during Bill Gates' keynote at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show in January, which could be a bummer since it misses this upcominhg holiday shopping season.

It's true you can already play HD-DVD's through the Xbox but you need another device to plug in. Microsoft sells that player for $179, but it's not clear that the new Xbox360HD will simply be $179 more than the current Xbox 360 without it. Consumers might be getting a break if they buy the all-in-one unit.

I haven't heard pricing yet: details to come. But the blogs are all over this. Several analyst firms I talked with this morning say an HD version of Xbox wasn't expected until mid-to late 2008, so anything earlier would be a surprise.

All the hub-bub began with a story in the Australian publication, "Smarthouse," after comments it had gotten from an executive at Toshiba. But The Seattle Post-Intelligencer says no new Xbox is coming after what sound like pretty definitive comments it had gotten from Microsoft; that maybe Microsoft will license its technology to Toshiba for a new kind of all-in-one player/recorder/game-player/HD thingy. Intriguing.

We've placed several calls into the company seeking official comment. Some folks are looking into it; others haven't returned the calls yet. But the folks I'm talking to off-the-record say an announcement is coming.

This could be a big deal for both Microsoft and the HD-DVD movement. Microsoft has already seen a significant pop in Xbox console sales in the wake of the Halo 3 release. In fact, some market research suggests that sales have tripled normal volume. That makes sense since as we've reported there are about 2.5 million Xboxers still playing the game on older consoles, who have not traded up to the new 360. Halo 3 was widely expected to get them to do so.

At the same time, back at the Digital Life Expo, we detailed how HD-DVD was outselling Blu-Ray on laptops by better than 8-1. It stands to reason that laptop users who have onboard HD-DVD would also want that same format at home.

Now that Microsoft is making it even easier for consumers to use the format in such a popular game-player, this is more bad news for Blu-Ray, and of course its primary backer, Sony which makes that competing platform available in PlayStation. All of this becomes much more important in Microsoft's grander plan of using the Xbox to invade the living room. A kind of Trojan Horse. An all-in-one digital entertainment hub masquerading as a game-player.

McAdams Wright Ragen in Seattle expects Microsoft to realize a year-over-year 35% gain in its Entertainment Device Division, to $1.4 billion. Halo 3 is widely viewed as the lynch-pin to getting this beleaguered unit into the black. An all-in-one game-player/HD-DVD player could help even more.

[chlngr1970]

While I lothe the idea of the PS3 having a Blu Ray player in it ( and therefore inflating the cost of the PS3 ), and this may sound hypocritical, I kinda like the idea of an HD DVD equiped Xbox 360. If the PS3 had an option of NO Blu Ray, I would consider buying one. IMHO, as long as a choice is offered to buy one sans the HD DVD drive, I think I could get behind a decision. Of course, this is all conjecture, as there is no official word. If pricing is in line with the other SKUs, I see this as being a possible success for MS/HD DVD

j

[Ruined]

Well, we know the HD DVDROM drive in the HD-A2/A20/XA2 was too slow at reading DVD for XBOX 360. It could only do 8x IIRC and the 360 needs 12x; since all 360 games are standard DVD media and will continue to be standard DVD media for the life of the console, an internal 360 HD DVDROM drive would need to be able to read standard DVD at 12x.

The Toshiba HD-A3/A30/A35 all have brand new Toshiba drives, different ones than in the HD-A2. We don't know their performance capabilities with DVD, so it may be technically possible with the gen3 drives to have an internal 360 HD DVD drive.

It certainly does look fishy that they started production of a whole new drive for the HD-A3 when the one in the HD-A2 would have worked just fine in the HD-A3 with no performance difference. Especially since they had gotten the read performance so stable in the latest HD-A2 firmware, why switch now to a totally different drive (that had to go through two firmware upgrades post-release to bring it up to speed with the HD-A2's drive)? The only reason I could see them switching is: A) The new A3 HD DVDROM is cheaper to produce than the HD-A2 one somehow, B) The new A3 HD DVDROM is significantly better/less picky at reading HD51 (though this is not too likely as even the gen1 NEC had readable HD45 in its specs - and HD51 will only be used if Disney jumps into HD DVD), C) The new A3 HD DVDROM drive can do 12x DVD and hence work with the 360.

IMO, MS does need to come out with an internal HD DVDROM 360 if they want to compete with the PS3 using the Elite price point. Basically they either need to drop the price of the Elite significantly or replace the Elite SKU with one that has builtin HD DVD. A quick check of BestBuy.com and Circuit City.com indicates the the 360 Elite is completely gone from Circuit City and not available in stores at Best Buy. Amazon no longer has the Elite listed for sale from them, only from third parties. Hmm, looks like somethin is a brewin, because it appears the Elite is discontinued; not too dissimilar to what happened with the Core just before the Arcade SKU was announced.

However, I do not see MS putting HD DVD in the Premium or Arcade - that would be a waste. Keep those with standard DVD to keep the prices low and compete with Wii. And that will be the key difference here - just like all of the other 360 "upgrades," this will be an optional one that you can choose to pay for or not to pay for. And one that allows MS to compete at all levels with their two competitors.

[PunkMunkey]

My biggest concern with the rumor of this new hardware is what happens when a game developer decides to make use of the added capacity? You have a whole installed user base that's going to get left behind...

That is unless MS limits devs to using DVD only for games...but then, if the added capacity isn't going to be utilized for games, that calls into question the need for an HDDVD based 360 at all...

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

My biggest concern with the rumor of this new hardware is what happens when a game developer decides to make use of the added capacity? You have a whole installed user base that's going to get left behind...

As I understand it, the spec for games is DVD. Since I don't know the limitations of the drive, it's possible that the HD DVD drive is not a good transport for the gaming. Even a lower end DVD ROM ( Think 8X ) isn't acceptable for games on the 360. You already mentioned the current install base...how would you alienate almost ALL of your customers like that?

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

That is unless MS limits devs to using DVD only for games...but then, if the added capacity isn't going to be utilized for games, that calls into question the need for an HDDVD based 360 at all...

Sounds to me like they are leaning toward a media solution with this tech...much the same way the PS3 gets marketed occasionaly.
j

[billnye97]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

My biggest concern with the rumor of this new hardware is what happens when a game developer decides to make use of the added capacity? You have a whole installed user base that's going to get left behind...

That is unless MS limits devs to using DVD only for games...but then, if the added capacity isn't going to be utilized for games, that calls into question the need for an HDDVD based 360 at all...

From what I gather is that it would be like the 360 AO, only used for movies not for games. There would be no point in having it any other way.

[littlebib]

Originally Posted by billnye97

From what I gather is that it would be like the 360 AO, only used for movies not for games. There would be no point in having it any other way.

I agree. Developers would be shooting themselves in the foot at this point if they tried to develop a game based on HD DVD media. The install base would be so small, they wouldn't be able to make any money.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

My biggest concern with the rumor of this new hardware is what happens when a game developer decides to make use of the added capacity? You have a whole installed user base that's going to get left behind...

Nope, an XBOX 360 game is only allowed to be made on standard DVD. No different than the HD DVD addon. This is why the internal HD DVD drive needs to be able to read 12x DVD.

That is unless MS limits devs to using DVD only for games...but then, if the added capacity isn't going to be utilized for games, that calls into question the need for an HDDVD based 360 at all...

Which is why there are tiers of options - Arcade, Premium, and whatever the replacement for the Elite will be called. You don't need a hard drive either for games, so that also is optional in the cheapest Arcade bundle. Microsoft gives you the option to buy what you want, unlike Sony who forced BD on everyone (and had to also force an HD as well to make up for the slow BD read times on games), resulting in a much costlier console with little to no benefit for the end user in gaming.

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

Sounds to me like they are leaning toward a media solution with this tech...much the same way the PS3 gets marketed occasionaly.

Precisely. If it actually happens, that is. It will likely be marketed as a media solution, replacing the Elite to better compete with the PS3 as a media solution.

[PunkMunkey]

Since the HDDVD drive would not be utilized for games, would there be any advantage to this unit over the 360 with the HDDVD add-on other than aesthetics?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

Since the HDDVD drive would not be utilized for games, would there be any advantage to this unit over the 360 with the HDDVD add-on other than aesthetics?

If it does get announced, it will likely be cheaper than 360 + HDAO and it may use a different audio controller to allow lossless sound over HDMI instead of the current 1.5mbps DTS transcode the HDAO offers. Then again, it may be exactly the same as the HDAO, except cheaper and internal; I doubt that transcoded audio will prevent interested people from buying it.

To add more fuel to the rumor fire, Toys R' Us is currently clearancing their 360 HDAO drives for $129. Combine that with the Elite being discontinued + CES and you have a nice fat rumor to talk about

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Toys R' Us is currently clearancing their 360 HDAO drives for $129.

Hmm...interesting. I was waiting for this pricepoint to possibly get one to hook up with my laptop.

Edit: nevermind...they are off the website now, and you can't order them.

[sub780lime]

Originally Posted by Ruined

If it does get announced, it will likely be cheaper than 360 + HDAO and it may use a different audio controller to allow lossless sound over HDMI instead of the current 1.5mbps DTS transcode the HDAO offers. Then again, it may be exactly the same as the HDAO, except cheaper and internal; I doubt that transcoded audio will prevent interested people from buying it.

Also, you would have guaranteed HDMI which you don't have with the add-on since you can use it with systems that do not have HDMI. They really should have figured out a way to do this before the holiday. I think they really missed the train there.