Revenge of Toshiba/HD DVD: Super "SD2HD" Upconversion

Ruined · 01-10-2008, 02:32 PM

So HD DVD has lost the battle to Blu-Ray in the HDM market.

But Toshiba isn't ready to let go of the DVD market. So they now will market...

SUPER SD2HD UPCONVERSION

We saw that the Toshiba HD DVD players had outstanding upconversion, now they are going to expand on that using a new technique in upconverting revolving around dynamic edge enhancement algorithms.

Could be a bit of a concern for BD, as this tech would obviously be much cheaper to manufacture and sell. Still, I don't think Toshiba would be successful in marketing it if they couldn't successfully market HD DVD. Apparently this tech is possible on the PS3 and Sony was considering implementing it, but Sony opted not to because they felt it might undermine BD.

Ruined · 01-10-2008, 02:33 PM

And a sample snapshot.

mighty mint · 01-10-2008, 02:40 PM

I have had great experiences with Toshiba products - I would buy in!

PunkMunkey · 01-10-2008, 03:07 PM

Upconverted 480P is still 480P...you can't "make" resolution where there is none.

Seems like a very obvious ploy to keep their DVD revenue stream from drying up...but it might be nice to have.

Ruined · 01-10-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkMunkey

Upconverted 480P is still 480P...you can't "make" resolution where there is none.

Sure you can. It may not be accurate resolution, but you can easily add new resolution to a 480p image - that is what edge enhancement does. This seems to be a new more advanced form of edge enhancement.

Quote:

Seems like a very obvious ploy to keep their DVD revenue stream from drying up...but it might be nice to have.

Of course

Although my biggest complaint with SD DVD is not that it is soft, but rather the MPEG2 artifacting.

brian · 01-10-2008, 10:24 PM

Looks like a nice toy that all the film purists will hate.

Ruined · 01-10-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian

Looks like a nice toy that all the film purists will hate.

But the average joe will LOVE it I bet

brian · 01-10-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined

But the average joe will LOVE it I bet

Indeed.

dugpa · 01-11-2008, 12:09 AM

So Toshiba's solution to the format war is not to adopt blu-ray and end things now that it's almost over, but to introduce another product into the marketplace to confuse J6P even more? Nice going guys. My only solace is that if they market these as badly as they did hd-dvd no one will ever know about them.

brian · 01-11-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugpa

So Toshiba's solution to the format war is not to adopt blu-ray and end things now that it's almost over, but to introduce another product into the marketplace to confuse J6P even more?

No, I think it's just to sell a bunch of DVD players in an undifferentiated and over-saturated market.

Ruined · 01-11-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugpa

So Toshiba's solution to the format war is not to adopt blu-ray and end things now that it's almost over, but to introduce another product into the marketplace to confuse J6P even more? Nice going guys. My only solace is that if they market these as badly as they did hd-dvd no one will ever know about them.

That's what I said, lol.

But regarding whether they are going to adopt Blu-Ray... Well, Microsoft stated on 1/8 that "The war is not over until Toshiba goes out of business." That is a pretty damn strong statement. Toshiba may very well take the shotgun approach - keep A3/A30/A35 in production, release combo players, super upconverters SD2HD, etc, anything they can to get the customer to not buy BD.

biglyle · 01-11-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined

That's what I said, lol.

But regarding whether they are going to adopt Blu-Ray... Well, Microsoft stated on 1/8 that "The war is not over until Toshiba goes out of business." That is a pretty damn strong statement. Toshiba may very well take the shotgun approach - keep A3/A30/A35 in production, release combo players, super upconverters SD2HD, etc, anything they can to get the customer to not buy BD.

Good thing they are the consumer friendly company unlike Sony

Mr. Furious · 01-11-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined

That's what I said, lol.

But regarding whether they are going to adopt Blu-Ray... Well, Microsoft stated on 1/8 that "The war is not over until Toshiba goes out of business." That is a pretty damn strong statement. Toshiba may very well take the shotgun approach - keep A3/A30/A35 in production, release combo players, super upconverters SD2HD, etc, anything they can to get the customer to not buy BD.

That's idiotic. It's like they're trying broad spectrum antibiotics when the patient is already dead.

mighty mint · 01-11-2008, 03:48 PM

Admittedly all these things are true but Toshiba does put out a nice player. I will actually would like to see a Toshiba Blu-ray player. Can someone explain to me what the difference is between this proposed player and an upconversion?

DakotaDave · 01-11-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugpa

So Toshiba's solution to the format war is not to adopt blu-ray and end things now that it's almost over, but to introduce another product into the marketplace to confuse J6P even more? Nice going guys. My only solace is that if they market these as badly as they did hd-dvd no one will ever know about them.

They are making an easier way for people to watch what they have in their already existing DVD libraries in close to HD form; without having to buy a whole new library. And to keep DVD's alive for a while longer.

sub780lime · 01-11-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DakotaDave

They are making an easier way for people to watch what they have in their already existing DVD libraries in close to HD form; without having to buy a whole new library. And to keep DVD's alive for a while longer.

So, since HD-DVD is going to die (inevitable) instead of investing in the winner (bluray) and making money, they will just try and make people ignore the HD format and buy more SD-DVDs. As Dugpa put it, that is idiotic.

Ruined · 01-11-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub780lime

So, since HD-DVD is going to die (inevitable) instead of investing in the winner (bluray) and making money, they will just try and make people ignore the HD format and buy more SD-DVDs. As Dugpa put it, that is idiotic.

Its not idiotic for Toshiba. They heavily profit from DVD since it is their format and they do not profit from BD since they were not involved in creating it. Therefore they will do anything they can to keep DVD alive to protect their revenue stream.

DakotaDave · 01-11-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub780lime

So, since HD-DVD is going to die (inevitable) instead of investing in the winner (bluray) and making money, they will just try and make people ignore the HD format and buy more SD-DVDs. As Dugpa put it, that is idiotic.

No its not; not when people arent ready for HD yet. Yeah the HD tvs are selling, but people (The Average Joe) arent ready to have to go out and pay $400 + for a new player, and up to thousands on a new movie collection. I mean paying up to $100 for an upconverter, and watch their already existing collection in close to hd form; is easier and saves money. Im happy with it, and so are a lot of other people.

jbat31 · 01-11-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub780lime

So, since HD-DVD is going to die (inevitable) instead of investing in the winner (bluray) and making money, they will just try and make people ignore the HD format and buy more SD-DVDs. As Dugpa put it, that is idiotic.

How is that idiotic. 70% of American homes have no HDTV. Of those that even have an HDTV, less than one percent are probably buying HD discs. DVD is still the cash cow, if you can't milk the HD market, milk the already established DVD market

sub780lime · 01-11-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbat31

How is that idiotic. 70% of American homes have no HDTV. Of those that even have an HDTV, less than one percent are probably buying HD discs. DVD is still the cash cow, if you can't milk the HD market, milk the already established DVD market

Quote:

Originally Posted by DakotaDave

No its not; not when people arent ready for HD yet. Yeah the HD tvs are selling, but people (The Average Joe) arent ready to have to go out and pay $400 + for a new player, and up to thousands on a new movie collection. I mean paying up to $100 for an upconverter, and watch their already existing collection in close to hd form; is easier and saves money. Im happy with it, and so are a lot of other people.

Its not idiotic, because of what they are doing, but what they are not doing. They need to invest in the HD format and not turn away, because they lost out. HD should be the future and they should get a foot in on it now. I am not saying they shouldn't do what they are doing for SD, but there is only so much upconversion and edge-enhancement you can do and I am not entirely sure I would consider the result "Near HD". The future should be HD and they aren't doing anything to push that.

biglyle · 01-11-2008, 08:30 PM

Once big rental stores start stocking blu-ray, and I mean all the new releases, then you will j6p adopt. Most people dont have anything resembling a "collection", but they do rent a lot.

DakotaDave · 01-11-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglyle

Once big rental stores start stocking blu-ray, and I mean all the new releases, then you will j6p adopt. Most people dont have anything resembling a "collection", but they do rent a lot.

RENTAL! LOL! No one rents anymore, unless they go through Netflix. Most people buy instead of rent, because renting and returning is such a hassle. Thats how everyone I know does it.

MooglePorn · 01-11-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DakotaDave

RENTAL! LOL! No one rents anymore, unless they go through Netflix. Most people buy instead of rent, because renting and returning is such a hassle. Thats how everyone I know does it.

I think your friends are not in the J6P demographic then... everyone rents, drive past a Hollywood Video on a Friday night... hell, go into one and see that the 100 copies of Superbad are all rented.

Rentals rule... and honestly, the thing that will finally kill them is on demand pay-per-view, not any new format.

biglyle · 01-11-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DakotaDave

RENTAL! LOL! No one rents anymore, unless they go through Netflix. Most people buy instead of rent, because renting and returning is such a hassle. Thats how everyone I know does it.

The line ups at our local blockbuster on Friday and Saturday evenings is 15 people deep at 5 tills. Renting is king by a huge margin. As for what Moog said about on demand. I agree it will slow the rental biz, but it wont kill it. J6P loves his video store. Movie, microwave popcorn, a 2 litre of cola and a chance to flirt with 16 year high school girl working at the counter. For many this is living it up and going out on the town.

mighty mint · 01-11-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglyle

The line ups at our local blockbuster on Friday and Saturday evenings is 15 people deep at 5 tills. Renting is king by a huge margin. As for what Moog said about on demand. I agree it will slow the rental biz, but it wont kill it. J6P loves his video store. Movie, microwave popcorn, a 2 litre of cola and a chance to flirt with smokin' hot 16-22 year old women working at the counter. For many this is living it up and going out on the town.

Fixed.

***1138*** · 01-12-2008, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglyle

The line ups at our local blockbuster on Friday and Saturday evenings is 15 people deep at 5 tills. Renting is king by a huge margin. As for what Moog said about on demand. I agree it will slow the rental biz, but it wont kill it. J6P loves his video store. Movie, microwave popcorn, a 2 litre of cola and a chance to flirt with 16 year high school girl working at the counter. For many this is living it up and going out on the town.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighty mint

Fixed.

Hey! Somtimes they're older than 22 years old and they're my sister or my GF. So nyeh!

But yes, on weekends (including Fridays), the rental places get major business. People stop by on their way home or while they're out anyway and a lot of them are turning towards the rental places more and more now that they have decent HT setups and the cost and experience of movies in the theater isn't what it once was.

01-10-2008, 02:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ruined It's Good to Play Together Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ, USA	Revenge of Toshiba/HD DVD: Super "SD2HD" Upconversion So HD DVD has lost the battle to Blu-Ray in the HDM market. But Toshiba isn't ready to let go of the DVD market. So they now will market... *SUPER SD2HD* UPCONVERSION** We saw that the Toshiba HD DVD players had outstanding upconversion, now they are going to expand on that using a new technique in upconverting revolving around dynamic edge enhancement algorithms. Could be a bit of a concern for BD, as this tech would obviously be much cheaper to manufacture and sell. Still, I don't think Toshiba would be successful in marketing it if they couldn't successfully market HD DVD. Apparently this tech is possible on the PS3 and Sony was considering implementing it, but Sony opted not to because they felt it might undermine BD. __________________ For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light. Last edited by Ruined : 02-11-2008 at 12:33 AM.

01-10-2008, 02:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ruined It's Good to Play Together Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ, USA	And a sample snapshot. __________________ For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light. Last edited by Ruined : 02-11-2008 at 12:33 AM.

01-10-2008, 02:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
mighty mint The Freshmaker! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the Land of the Ice and Snow, eh!	I have had great experiences with Toshiba products - I would buy in! __________________ MM wishes he had a new tv to go with his new BD player. IMAX ~ another great Canadian invention!

01-10-2008, 03:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
PunkMunkey Join Date: Jul 2002	Upconverted 480P is still 480P...you can't "make" resolution where there is none. Seems like a very obvious ploy to keep their DVD revenue stream from drying up...but it might be nice to have. __________________ ...you left me feeling hopeful I'd never see your face again.

01-10-2008, 10:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
brian Digital Jesűs Emeritus Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Wisconsin	Looks like a nice toy that all the film purists will hate. __________________ Why? fin.

01-11-2008, 12:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
dugpa Nothing But the Best Join Date: Sep 2004	So Toshiba's solution to the format war is not to adopt blu-ray and end things now that it's almost over, but to introduce another product into the marketplace to confuse J6P even more? Nice going guys. My only solace is that if they market these as badly as they did hd-dvd no one will ever know about them. __________________ DVD collection LD collection Will rent this sig space for blu-ray discs.

01-11-2008, 03:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
mighty mint The Freshmaker! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the Land of the Ice and Snow, eh!	Admittedly all these things are true but Toshiba does put out a nice player. I will actually would like to see a Toshiba Blu-ray player. Can someone explain to me what the difference is between this proposed player and an upconversion? __________________ MM wishes he had a new tv to go with his new BD player. IMAX ~ another great Canadian invention!

01-11-2008, 08:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
biglyle Actor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada	Once big rental stores start stocking blu-ray, and I mean all the new releases, then you will j6p adopt. Most people dont have anything resembling a "collection", but they do rent a lot. __________________ http://forums.dvdfile.com/your-home-...w-theater.html I dont want downloads!