To upgrade my HD-DVD player, or not to?

[plissken99]

So with HD-DVD effectively dead, I'm left pondering what to do. I want 1080p24 output for the 108 HD-DVDs I have, and I want top quality upscaling(which means XA2). Well the XA2 is unfortuatly way too much to spend on a dead tech. I can get the A30 for $173 for 1080p24 output though. Should I spend the dough on it? And is 24hz a big enough deal to upgrade over(I know the i and p don't really matter)?

[dugpa]

I've been debating this question myself, if I should get an A35 before they're gone. Part of me says yes, as I have a little over 100 hd-dvd's. On the flip side, part of me things by the time my A1 finally dies (hopefully not for a long time) I'll probably have rebought most of those that are worth anything on blu-ray.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by plissken99

So with HD-DVD effectively dead, I'm left pondering what to do. I want 1080p24 output for the 108 HD-DVDs I have, and I want top quality upscaling(which means XA2). Well the XA2 is unfortuatly way too much to spend on a dead tech. I can get the A30 for $173 for 1080p24 output though. Should I spend the dough on it? And is 24hz a big enough deal to upgrade over(I know the i and p don't really matter)?

Personally, I don't think so.

I have gotten the best experience by setting my HD DVD and BD players to 1080i and having the Reon in my Integra DTC-9.8 do the deinterlacing.

Think about it. Not every HD movie is 1080p24 - many are 1080p30 or 1080i60 - like Nine Inch Nails for instance. If you have your player set to 1080p24 it will stutter on these movies.

I would save the money and put it towards a receiver/processor with a Reon chip which would improve the quality of all of your sources instead.

[plissken99]

Well, unless Denon makes a reciever with Reon, I'm stuck. Normally I don't believe in brand loyalty, but Denon rules in audio. Maybe the XA2 is worth it, afterall I'll have DVD to watch for a long time. And the cheaper upcoming Denon BD player is more than twice the price of a used XA2.

BDs are already superb, HD-DVD and DVD would improve with the XA2, bringing everything up to snuff... Decisions, decisions. I can get one for $362 shipped, all it means is another month of credit card debt lol.

BTW, just realized I posted this in the software section, my bad.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Well, unless Denon makes a reciever with Reon, I'm stuck. Normally I don't believe in brand loyalty, but Denon rules in audio. Maybe the XA2 is worth it, afterall I'll have DVD to watch for a long time. And the cheaper upcoming Denon BD player is more than twice the price of a used XA2.

BDs are already superb, HD-DVD and DVD would improve with the XA2, bringing everything up to snuff... Decisions, decisions. I can get one for $362 shipped, all it means is another month of credit card debt lol.

BTW, just realized I posted this in the software section, my bad.

Denon does make a receiver with Realta processing (AVR5308CI), but that puppy is over 5 grand and won't be out until the end of this month. As for one with Reon processing, I'm not too sure.

So for the quality and price, the XA2 seems like a good choice. $362 is great deal for an XA2. As an XA2 owner I can vouch for it's excellent upscaling capabilities. And as an added bonus , with a firmware update of 2.7 you will be able to send out a bitstream of TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD, DTS-HD MA via HDMI to a compatible receiver. I recently did this and am just awaiting the Denon AVP-A1HD to be able to benefit from it.

And yes the Denon Blu-ray player is probably going to be the best one on the market, but at $2k or so for the player, the XA2 looks like the way to go.

I have absolutely no regrets getting my XA2 machine, as I have quite a few HD DVD's (50) and a ton of standard DVD's (1,600). So for the upscaling alone the XA2 is well worth it.



Seth

[plissken99]

Aye I just ordered it. I couldn't find enough logical reason to not. If it lasts, it'll be my primary player for years to come, and I've read their built like tanks(as the A1 is). Well I've got an A2 for sale for $100.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Aye I just ordered it. I couldn't find enough logical reason to not. If it lasts, it'll be my primary player for years to come, and I've read their built like tanks(as the A1 is). Well I've got an A2 for sale for $100.

Too cool! Congrats! I know you're going to enjoy it. And yes it is a very well built player and one that I believe will last for many years to come.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Well, unless Denon makes a reciever with Reon, I'm stuck. Normally I don't believe in brand loyalty, but Denon rules in audio.

I use seperates and the Integra DTC-9.8 (made by Onkyo) is amazing. It blows my previous Parasound AVC-2500 out of the water on music, movies, everything. And it has a featureset that cannot be beat. Plus it does fantastic work on all of my video sources with the Reon chipset, making everything look great upscaled and deinterlaced perfectly to 1080p. My A35 now looks as good as the XA2 with DVD thanks to the DTC-9.8.

IMO Onkyo/Integra hit a homerun this year and is far ahead of all the other CE companies including Denon. Show me a Denon receiver that has nextgen decoding + Reon + Audyssey MultiEQ XT + awesome sound for under $1300 like the Onkyo 875. Just because Denon costs more doesn't mean its better (see Bose for example), and the new Onkyos have got rave reviews from virtually everyone.

Being product smart is better than being brand loyal. And while Denon does rule, this year Onkyo rules more. This is coming from a former Denon owner (AVR-3200) who exclusively recommended Denon in the past for A/V receivers; this year, I am recommending exclusively Onkyo because they have very clearly bested Denon.

Spending $350 on an XA2 is a waste when you can upgrade your audio and on top of that virtually convert your A2 into an XA2 with the Onkyo 875. Not to mention the 875 will fix up all your other video sources too, while the XA2 just does DVD. Plus on top of that the 875's Reon can give you better performance on you BD player, too! Much better idea to save up for the 875 instead IMO.

[Derb]

Grats on the XA2 Pliss.

It IS built like a tank. Its amost 3 times as heavy as the A2 by comparison. 2.7 firmware is the latest & once I installed it, I noticed the on screen menu layout changed a bit. More info but it would be nice to have a VBR display. Anyways, it is my primary DVD player & I'm sure it will be yours too.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Derb

Grats on the XA2 Pliss.

It IS built like a tank. Its amost 3 times as heavy as the A2 by comparison. 2.7 firmware is the latest & once I installed it, I noticed the on screen menu layout changed a bit. More info but it would be nice to have a VBR display. Anyways, it is my primary DVD player & I'm sure it will be yours too.

Derb's right, the XA2 is very well built and has worked near flawless in it's operation. I am very happy with mine and I know you will be too.

It's interesting but you're right Derb, I also noticed that the on screen menu layout changed after firmware 2.7. I think it's a definite improvement and much easier to read now. My XA2 is also my main DVD player as well.

You did great on your purchase Pliss.



Seth

[Pirate]

How much better is the XA2's SD playback than the A35? Also, doesn't the XA2 take a while to load DVDs?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

How much better is the XA2's SD playback than the A35?

The XA2 is internally essentially an HD-A2 outputting 1080i to a Reon chip for deinterlacing. So it depends if you already have that chip elsewhere in your system, such as your receiver. If you do, the output of the XA2 won't really be any different than that of an A3.

If the question is, how does Reon deinterlacing compare to the deinterlacing of the A35 or the average HDTV, the Reon is a lot better for standard DVDs.

But as I said to Plissken, its a much more worthwhile investment IMO to put the $350+ you'd spend on an XA2 towards an Onkyo 875 with builtin Reon. Then you can just output one of the cheaper HD DVD players to the 875 and get the same "XA2" quality and on top of that get enhanced quality for all your other sources too (i.e. BD players, HDTV settop box, SD sources, etc). And get new audio codecs, decoding, HDMI input instead of always needing 5.1 analog etc. Investing in an Onkyo with Reon, in other words, is an investment that helps out your system across the board both audio & video while the XA2 is just limited to the video of that one player.

Especially in your case pirate, you'd kill two birds with one stone by using that XA2 money towards an Onkyo 875.

[Pirate]

I keep hearing that the Onkyo's are exploding, sparking, catching on fire, etc.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I keep hearing that the Onkyo's are exploding, sparking, catching on fire, etc.

Really? No issues with mine, though I only have the pre/pro.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Really? No issues with mine, though I only have the pre/pro.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Onkyo+sparks

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Onkyo+sparks

I would not be concerned over a few reviews like that. The new Onkyo line looks to be by far the most popular choice right now and more units sold = more chances of defects happening and being reported. They really beat the other CE manufacturers to the punch and as a result are the easy pick of the litter. Doing some research I found someone trying to stir up trouble about this on AVSFORUM, so it appears that there is such a thing as receiver company fanboys posting about as well.

There actually was a hardware revision made across the Onkyo line in September 2007 - I believe one of the caps or resistors was swapped out for a different one. It is possible some of the old-revision hardware was defective or more prone to failure than the new revision.

Either way I wouldn't be paranoid. Nothing touches the Onkyo line right now and for the most part people love them. And, there will always be broken units no matter how reliable a company is, that is the way electronics work. For example, my household has bought 3 Toshiba standalone HD DVD players (HD-A1, HD-A2, HD-A35). 2 of the 3 failed at some point and required repair service (HD-A1 skipping, HD-A35 nonresponsive to commands/lockup). So the XA2 alternative isn't bulletproof either obviously.

[sub780lime]

Well, mine sure gets hot as hell so I wouldnt be surprised...I could probably cook on it if I tried.


I am tempted to upgrade as well, but I assume the prices will end up even lower in no time at all.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by sub780lime

Well, mine sure gets hot as hell so I wouldnt be surprised...I could probably cook on it if I tried.

Getting hot is not necessarily a bad thing. So long as the product is designed to run hot, it should not be a problem. For instance, my GeForce 8800GTS Superclocked and Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 both run hot as hell. But it is fine because that was how they were designed to run.

I've had zero problems with my DTC-9.8 left on all day long with Reon doing the deinterlacing for all sources. It has been an awesome purchase.

[plissken99]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Spending $350 on an XA2 is a waste when you can upgrade your audio and on top of that virtually convert your A2 into an XA2 with the Onkyo 875. Not to mention the 875 will fix up all your other video sources too, while the XA2 just does DVD. Plus on top of that the 875's Reon can give you better performance on you BD player, too! Much better idea to save up for the 875 instead IMO.

To give perspective, I put most of the RS1 on a credit card, I HATE credit cards, but I hated not having the RS1 more. Plus a car payment... $350 to get my DVDs and HD DVDs up to snuff is bargain compared to a $1,300 receiver so TV could also benifit from Reon, when I already have an excellent receiver. Though I admit, that Onkyo 875 is a bargain with the amount of features it has plus 140w per channel. But it would be a year anyway before I could justify spending more scratch on the theater room, especially on an item I'd intend to upgrade.

This year is about getting that stuff paid off, next year I plan to blow 4k on seperate amps and probably a processor(got my eye on a Sunfire 5 or 7ch amp with 400w per channel). So for a mere $350, I can enjoy excellent DVD and HD-DVD quality till then.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by plissken99

This year is about getting that stuff paid off, next year I plan to blow 4k on seperate amps and probably a processor

I know it sucks.. I spend 4K almost every other month on just software soo err wait, you mean year. oops. Seriously, I am in the same or worse boat than you are probably in with the CC. By the time I get all that $$$$$'$ paid off Star Wars would have had its second go-round on the Blu-Ray format!

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Derb

Seriously, I am in the same or worse boat than you are probably in with the CC. By the time I get all that $$$$$'$ paid off Star Wars would have had its second go-round on the Blu-Ray format!

Yeah, I've decided to make this year pay stuff off year. Add to that the fact that I have almost HD 100 discs I haven't watched and 100 dvds I haven't watched (not to mention tons of books I haven't read), and I decided I just need to stop buying new stuff, watch what I have and pay off what I owe. Besides, I figure if I wait a year a good profile 2.0 player will be out to get. So unless something really, really good comes out (I'm talking David Lynch good), no discs or hardware for awhile for me.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by plissken99

To give perspective, I put most of the RS1 on a credit card, I HATE credit cards, but I hated not having the RS1 more. Plus a car payment... $350 to get my DVDs and HD DVDs up to snuff is bargain compared to a $1,300 receiver so TV could also benifit from Reon, when I already have an excellent receiver. Though I admit, that Onkyo 875 is a bargain with the amount of features it has plus 140w per channel. But it would be a year anyway before I could justify spending more scratch on the theater room, especially on an item I'd intend to upgrade.

This year is about getting that stuff paid off, next year I plan to blow 4k on seperate amps and probably a processor(got my eye on a Sunfire 5 or 7ch amp with 400w per channel). So for a mere $350, I can enjoy excellent DVD and HD-DVD quality till then.

Yeah I'd say I have to agree with you, since your ultimate plan is to get separates, staying with your current receiver for now makes sense. And like you said $350 to get the most out of your DVD's and HD DVD's is definitely a bargain compared to getting a $1,300 receiver.

If you do get a 5 or 7 channel Sunfire amp, you are gonna' love it! 400 watts x 7 would be sweet! And since these amps accept balanced XLR connections, teaming it up with a pre/pro with balanced outs will give you some truly amazing sound.


Looking forward to your impressions of the XA2.

Enjoy!

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Yeah, I've decided to make this year pay stuff off year. Add to that the fact that I have almost HD 100 discs I haven't watched and 100 dvds I haven't watched (not to mention tons of books I haven't read), and I decided I just need to stop buying new stuff, watch what I have and pay off what I owe. Besides, I figure if I wait a year a good profile 2.0 player will be out to get. So unless something really, really good comes out (I'm talking David Lynch good), no discs or hardware for awhile for me.

This is what I should do too, but I can't help myself. I see a good deal and I jump on it. Fox titles for $15? I'm jumping on it. Thankfully for me the amazon sales are becoming less of a temptation as I have most of the movies anyways. Phew!

[plissken99]

Well I finally got the player today! Sure is a pretty piece of hardware. I decided to put the player through some tests so...

First I put in Star Trek DS9, the source of my discontent. Gone are the combing artifacts and jaggies!! Shame I just finished the series, but it has me jonesing to start TNG all over again, so it'll pay off.

It's funny to test the 24hz output, I put in Sahara for the opening credit sequence, but then I watched a battle scene at the beggining and freaked out because there was no bass(I remember some people having bass management issues with various players). After fiddling with the settings, I remembered Sahara was one of those early titles that got screwed in the LFE dept. So I put in Matrix and the theater room started shaking appropriatly.

Also, the 24fps thing is a mixed bag. I've had it on the PS3, but they say the opening credits of Sahara is the best example(which I have on HD DVD). Without 24fps, there is a definite unnatural jerkness to the camera movement. With 24fps, it's smooth panning all the way... but it's like it substitutes one motion artifact for another, as the text of the newspaper clippings becomes a bit distorted and harder to read when the camera moves. I think I prefer it with 24fps on, but the difference isn't much to write home about.

Lastly, I put in Mission Impossible 3 for the ole' staircase test, and kiss my grits the artifact is gone!!

So yeah I'm happy. It IS a bit annoying that I have to turn the 24fps off for SD material, but this will get less and less anoying as I'll have more Blu Rays than HD DVDs, and I plan to replace the occasional HD DVD when deals come along.

Oh, I'm having a brainfart. When playing the next gen audio formats, sending them to the receiver which won't decode them, I need to set HDMI audio to PCM right so the player decodes it?