Panasonic BD30 - To return, or not to return?

[Ruined]

For those not up to speed with the issues of this player, let me update you. It has an LFE bug. Not just a small one either, in fact all PCM soundtracks played over HDMI with this player have their LFE attenuated by -5db. Without going into an exhaustive analysis, there is no easy or clean way to compensate, workaround, or fix this. Basically the best fix is to play the 640kbps Dolby Digital track instead of the PCM track.

Panasonic has all but washed their hands of the issue, stating that it is a "hardware issue" and that "the player meets spec," therefore it is "not their responsibility" to fix the issue in any capacity. I can tell you that the fix would be a messy one, but a fix is possible. Panasonic simply does not want to spend the money to execute said fix.

So, here is the deal, I got this player for $425 + 10 free movies. My 30 days return policy runs out in a week. There are no other good Blu-ray standalones out now (IMO - no interest in slow profile 1.0 players nor PS3), and if I returned this player it would simply mean I would wait a few months and watch my HD DVD & SD movies until the new BD players shown at CES 2008 come out - such as the new Panasonic, Pioneer, and Sony players.

Return or not? What do you all think? I guess the question is, should I go through the inconvenience of not having a BD player for 3 months in order to get what will likely be a better player for the same price that has less issues... Or should I just keep this one and avoid PCM tracks for now, selling this player when an issue-free one arrives (after all, no guarantee that those new players won't have issues, too). After all, lossless doesn't sound THAT much better than Dolby 640kbps, sometimes not any better. But I think its more of a being treated like crap by the company/principal issue I am dealing with... combined with the fact that this is a $500 player and not a $200 HDAO!

[MooglePorn]

Is not buying the PS3... a machine much better than any BD player and cheaper too... because of some principle thing? Or like PirateHat do you just have some irrational disgust for playing a movie in a "game machine?"

You're even a gamer, so you'd be killing two birds with one stone.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

Is not buying the PS3... a machine much better than any BD player and cheaper too... because of some principle thing? Or like PirateHat do you just have some irrational disgust for playing a movie in a "game machine?"

You're even a gamer, so you'd be killing two birds with one stone.

No highdef codec bitstream support on PS3, and people on AVSFORUM who have both usually state that the standalones are a bit sharper in video quality. Also the PS3 does not have a tray (yuck) and does not function as a dedicated standalone as well as a dedicated standalone - which is what I'm looking for.

No interest in games on PS3 as I have a stack of unplayed 360 games, the 360 provides more than enough gaming that I need. In fact I"m trying to simplify and cut down my game collection a bit, so over the past week I've sold off all of my PSX and PS2 games w/ my PS2 as well. Getting a PS3 with new controllers, cabling, and other clutter would not work well with that plan.

[videoworx]

Tell me Ruined, if you can hear the difference between the PCM mix and the DD mix (other than the 5db LFE difference), why did you create multiple threads discussing the lack of difference between lossy and uncompressed audio? Why are there dozens of your posts suggesting that PCM is overkill and/or unnecessary?

It's incredibly contradictory, and you of all people would be able to determine whether this minor LFE issue is worth dumping Blu-Ray for. You already know what you're going to do. The fact that you have to ask members on a forum suggests you're simply taking yet another opportunity to bash Blu-Ray.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Tell me Ruined, if you can hear the difference between the PCM mix and the DD mix (other than the 5db LFE difference), why did you create multiple threads discussing the lack of difference between lossy and uncompressed audio? Why are there dozens of your posts suggesting that PCM is overkill and/or unnecessary?

It's incredibly contradictory, and you of all people would be able to determine whether this minor LFE issue is worth dumping Blu-Ray for. You already know what you're going to do. The fact that you have to ask members on a forum suggests you're simply taking yet another opportunity to bash Blu-Ray.

Or, you could have read my original post:

Originally Posted by My original post

After all, lossless doesn't sound THAT much better than Dolby 640kbps, sometimes not any better. But I think its more of a being treated like crap by the company/principal issue I am dealing with... combined with the fact that this is a $500 player and not a $200 HDAO!

And lossless w/ -5db LFE is hugely inferior to 640k DD w/ correct LFE, if that is what you are asking. 5db is not subtle especially when we are talking LFE. That is why currently I pick DD instead of PCM with this player. I should not have to do this, though. This is a $500 Panasonic, not a $29 Walmart Sansui special.

Also there are some titles I've run into that do not give a DD option, such as Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade. With that one I just have to deal with crippled LFE. :/

The fact is, I haven't made up my mind, hence the poll. Its a choice of keeping knowingly defective hardware that I'm not satisfied with whose manufacturer probably won't bother fixing vs. having no player for 3 months - which will also irritate me. It has nothing to do with "dumping Blu-ray," although it is true I will have no Blu-ray player until a suitable one is released in May/June... Overreact much?

[Astrakan]

I voted to return it.

But then again, I have no problem with waiting a few months. I already have a small (3! ) collection of Blu-Ray discs, but won't have a player for a while yet. Or, rather, I won't have a player until there's one on the market with stellar upconversion capabilities.

Which from what I'm reading may take anywhere from a few months to an undetermined amount of time. Either way, I'll wait.

Anyway, point is: A few months is hardly any time at all, and you've got plenty of DVD and HD DVDs to keep you busy in the meantime.

KM

[SilentBob]

Well you already seem ready to return the system with its voting tagline and various other threads you have created. If you don't mind the wait then by all means i think you should return the machine. Yeah not having Bitstream audio from my PS3 sucks with my Onkyo 605, but i still say it might be worth getting until then. I had a PS2 for almost 1.5 years before my first standalone dvd player and the same will probably go for my PS3. It did the job and i had no complaints to say about it. It doesn't have a lot of great games on it but it does have some (Ratchet and Clank Future and soon MGS4. . if you like the series) So if you still want to enjoy you Blu-ray discs i would recommend biting the bullet for a bit and buy a PS3 to enjoy the movies (and maybe a game down the road) Then when your Blu-ray player hits the market and you have the money (and reviews) in for your purchase. Go for it!

[jriseden]

500 dollars for a machine that is defective is too high of a price to pay. Since you already have hd dvd and there still are some good hd releases in the short term just stick with your preferred format for a few months. No reason why you should have to pay for Panasonic's r&d mistake.

[Ruined]

Well I have made my decision. The BD30 is going back to Best Buy tonight.

Two reasons:

1) Panasonic has been slow to react to the LFE bug. They are now taking it more seriously due to all the noise I and others have made on various forums. I believe they might actually fix it now, especially if it affects the BD50. But there is no guarantee... And that brings me to point #2.

2) The BD50 may be out as early as the 2nd week of March. It will be a final spec Blu-ray player. Even if it has the LFE bug, you will be able to compensate for it by having the player doing the decoding and bass management internally, then simply amplifying the subwoofer channel.

With these two items in mind, it makes no sense to keep the BD30. The BD50 will be here soon and will be a superior player in all aspects, plus you should be able to workaround the LFE bug in the BD50 even if it has it. I will continue to make noise about the LFE bug so that Panasonic squashes it not only for the BD30 but also for the BD50 as it likely will have the same issue.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I will continue to make noise about the LFE bug so that Panasonic squashes it not only for the BD30 but also for the BD50 as it likely will have the same issue.

Sounds like every Toshiba HD DVD player on the market unless you have a great receiver.

I was gonna recommend taking it back.

If you dead set on stand alone, I'd also wait for initial reviews, not just specs.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Derb

Sounds like every Toshiba HD DVD player on the market unless you have a great receiver.

That's completely incorrect, Derb. As I've brought up before, Toshiba HD DVD players have zero problems with LFE. The only people who have issues are those who have older receivers which do not properly amplify the LFE channel 10db on incoming multichannel analog signals. My Parasound 2500 was on of those older processors which fail to amplify LFE properly over analog 5.1, so I had to use a workaround for my processor's shortcomings within the player. This is the receiver's problem, not the player's.

The Panasonic issue is entirely different because the player is sending the wrong volume LFE over HDMI (unlike the Toshibas, which send the correct volume), it is 5db down from where it should be with PCM tracks. Even the best receiver in the world will have problems with the Panasonic because the player is sending out the wrong volumes.

[EM3]

If you are like me I am sure your money means a lot to you and you spend it wisely. I say take it back if it doesn't work right.

[elfman]

I say take it back, find a similar BD player that works to spec... no need to just blow $500 on something that doesn't do what you want it to.

Another thing, I under stand BD supporters standing up for their players, but reading some of the posts over the last month it seems that you have to accept ANY flaw in a player or spec and "just live with it and stop whining", or else you're just a complainer. That's kinda silly in my book.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Tell me Ruined, if you can hear the difference between the PCM mix and the DD mix (other than the 5db LFE difference), why did you create multiple threads discussing the lack of difference between lossy and uncompressed audio? Why are there dozens of your posts suggesting that PCM is overkill and/or unnecessary?

It's incredibly contradictory, and you of all people would be able to determine whether this minor LFE issue is worth dumping Blu-Ray for. You already know what you're going to do. The fact that you have to ask members on a forum suggests you're simply taking yet another opportunity to bash Blu-Ray.

Agreed. After all the talk about the placebo effect, apparently bitstream audio is sooooooo much better than LPCM that it warrants returning the product. Hope the bd50 works better for you.