What to get once they're out, Panasonic BD50 or Sony BDP-S550

[zepherman]

I am definitely going to get a new player to replace my Sony S300, I just want to hear from you guys what you would recommend me getting. Both will be profile 2.0, and will bitstream TrueHD and DTS-HD MA.

What do you guys think?



Seth

[Ruined]

My guess is qualitywise they will probably be the same. It will likely boil down to functionality like the speed of the player and the way the remote feels, as well as price.

I utterly loved the BD30 remote, so I see that as a positive for the BD50. Also, the BD30 had better DVD upscaling than the S500, so unless Sony switches up its upscaling technology the BD50 will likely have better upscaling than the S500. On the other hand, IIRC the Sony had an option to output DVD by default at 480i while the Panasonic did not - which may be important if you use an external processor.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

My guess is qualitywise they will probably be the same. It will likely boil down to functionality like the speed of the player and the way the remote feels, as well as price.

I utterly loved the BD30 remote, so I see that as a positive for the BD50. Also, the BD30 had better DVD upscaling than the S500, so unless Sony switches up its upscaling technology the BD50 will likely have better upscaling than the S500. On the other hand, IIRC the Sony had an option to output DVD by default at 480i while the Panasonic did not - which may be important if you use an external processor.

Thanks for the info. Yeah this is what I was thinking as well, they are both going to be well made players. And about the only negative I see with the Sony is that it won't be available until August. Any idea of when the BD50 might be available?

With my Denon pre/pro arriving sometime next month, I hope to have a new Blu-ray player in place not too long after that. Too bad it's not yet available as I'd get one now. But like my AVP I just have to wait until they release it.

Re the up-conversion, well for standard DVD playback I will be using my Toshiba XA2. And I'll be using the Denon AVP's HQV Realta processing anyway, so no biggie there. So if the Panasonic BD50 is indeed free of the LFE bug, this may be my best choice.

I'm curious, how long of a load time should the new BD50 have on Blu-ray movies with extensive use of BD-Java? What's the current BD30 like in that department?



Seth

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Thanks for the info. Yeah this is what I was thinking as well, they are both going to be well made players. And about the only negative I see with the Sony is that it won't be available until August. Any idea of when the BD50 might be available?

Anytime between 2nd week of March and May.

I'm curious, how long of a load time should the new BD50 have on Blu-ray movies with extensive use of BD-Java? What's the current BD30 like in that department?

I returned my BD-30, but if I recall... Regular movies are fast, like 15sec. BD-Java are like 30 sec. BD-Java and BD+ 45 sec.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Anytime between 2nd week of March and May.

Very cool, that time frame will be just about perfect.

I returned my BD-30, but if I recall... Regular movies are fast, like 15sec. BD-Java are like 30 sec. BD-Java and BD+ 45 sec.

Wow! that is fast, probably the quickest I've heard about this side of a PS3. Now this is what I want in a stand alone player, speed!

Thanks!



Seth

[powerknowledge]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I returned my BD-30, but if I recall... Regular movies are fast, like 15sec. BD-Java are like 30 sec. BD-Java and BD+ 45 sec.

I'll corroborate that, with the caveat that each individual title seems to play by its own rules. So, especially with the Java discs, you could see loads as quick as 30-45 sec., as much as 60-75, again depending on the disc. Still pretty damned impressive against the field.

[Iguana Man]

I don't know why, but this is the first thing I think of when hooking ANYTHING up to the Denon gear you are getting.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I don't know why, but this is the first thing I think of when hooking ANYTHING up to the Denon gear you are getting.

Too funny!!

[ddeee]

haha...

[Ruined]

Well, the BD50 will be out on 4/1 at an MSRP of $599.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Well, the BD50 will be out on 4/1 at an MSRP of $599.

$500 sounded better, but even at $600, for everything it does that's still not too bad. Seems like if anyone wants a fully featured profile 2.0 player for a lower price, they will have to wait till the Sony comes out in August.

Thanks for sharing that info



Seth

[zepherman]

I have been thinking about just sitting it out and waiting until August for the Sony BDP-S550. But the more I thought about it, that's still quite a way off, and during all that time I could be enjoying TrueHD and DTS-HD MA if I get the Panasonic BD50. So as soon as I can pre-order a BD50 I'm going for it.

[zepherman]

Some posters will most likely have a field day with this, but here's goes. As I mentioned in my Holy Grail pre/pro thread, when I picked up my pre/pro, I had the opportunity to get a Denon Blu-ray transport also. After putting the machine through its paces with various BD movies, I decided to go for it. My first concern was the reported low LFE issue. So I did some careful A/B comparisons with BD's that had both TrueHD and uncompressed PCM soundtracks on the same disc. This way I could change the audio on the fly to compare.

So what did I find? Well there was a very small difference in bass level, and from what I heard it was not the night and day difference that other posters had reported. The TrueHD had a tad more authority, but the uncompressed PCM LFE track IMO still sounded very good. Now I have yet to try it out in my own system though the Denon pre/pro (hope to do that either today or tomorrow), so I will report back once I get to try it out.

Now since I already own a Sony S300 that I know has no known issues with uncompressed PCM, I could always use that player for uncompressed PCM and use the transport for TrueHD, DTS-HD high res, and DTS-HD MA. And with regard to PQ, I know that the transport and Sony S300 do not offer Reon or Realta processing, but that's pretty much a non issue as the Denon pre/pro does have Realta processing for connected HDMI devices.

Now while I know that the Denon transport is not profile 2.0, in all actuality for my needs, profile 2.0 isn't an absolute necessity. The key things I am looking for is a well built player (in this case transport), that delivers a spectacular high def image and will bitstream TrueHD, DTS-HD high res, and DTS-HD MA. Things like Ethernet connectivity and PIP are not important to me and is something that I will most likely never use anyway. I mean I've had my Toshiba HD-XA2 for over a year now and not once did I ever use the Ethernet port.

But I will say this about the Denon transport, it's one gorgeous looking and sounding machine. The transport is whisper quiet, and even with my ear nearly pressed to the thing I could hardly tell that it was running. So for what I need I believe that it will be perfect.

Once I get it installed and connected to the Denon pre/pro I'll report back with my findings on uncompressed PCM LFE.



Seth

[Ruined]

Is the BT2500 really worth double the price of the BD30 for looks and better build? Aside from power circuitry which has no impact on the digital output quality, the BT2500 and BD30 are virtually identical. The Denon even uses the BD30's upscaling chip. Plus even if the BD30 breaks out of warranty, you could buy another (which will probably be a newer, better model) and be at the same price you paid for the Denon... I just don't get how its worth the money. Plus even if you don't use online features, the BT2500 is incapable of lossless audio on some titles due to its lack of internal decoders when a subaudio stream is present (such as PiP or other BD1.1 features that require internal mixing). While you might not need lossless while watching PiP, enabling/disabling subaudio requires stopping the movie and going into the Panasonic setup menu, then restarting the movie - a big pain.

Not trying to crap on your purchases, but the BD50 is a MUCH smarter buy as it will be fully compatible with all BD disc features, and even the BD30 is a smarter buy since its the same thing for half the price. While I would recommend the $1999 Denon 3800 BD player for its Realta upscaling, there is no way to justify recommending the BT2500 as it just appears to be a brand-status price gouging clone of the BD30 to me IMO.

[No6PackJoe]

One added bonus of the BD50 over the Sony is Divx and Divx-HD playback, if that's important to you.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by No6PackJoe

One added bonus of the BD50 over the Sony is Divx and Divx-HD playback, if that's important to you.

I actually see that as a big bonus. The BD50 can also playback movies via SDHC card (which range up to 32gb in size), which is a neat feature as well.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Is the BT2500 really worth double the price of the BD30 for looks and better build?

Obviously for some, yes it is. Perhaps if you keep asking the same question, the answer will change?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Obviously for some, yes it is. Perhaps if you keep asking the same question, the answer will change?

No, I'm just hoping at some point I understand the explanation better

[zepherman]

And so it begins!

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Is the BT2500 really worth double the price of the BD30 for looks and better build? Aside from power circuitry which has no impact on the digital output quality, the BT2500 and BD30 are virtually identical. The Denon even uses the BD30's upscaling chip. Plus even if the BD30 breaks out of warranty, you could buy another (which will probably be a newer, better model) and be at the same price you paid for the Denon... I just don't get how its worth the money. Plus even if you don't use online features, the BT2500 is incapable of lossless audio on some titles due to its lack of internal decoders when a subaudio stream is present (such as PiP or other BD1.1 features that require internal mixing). While you might not need lossless while watching PiP, enabling/disabling subaudio requires stopping the movie and going into the Panasonic setup menu, then restarting the movie - a big pain.

Not trying to crap on your purchases, but the BD50 is a MUCH smarter buy as it will be fully compatible with all BD disc features, and even the BD30 is a smarter buy since its the same thing for half the price. While I would recommend the $1999 Denon 3800 BD player for its Realta upscaling, there is no way to justify recommending the BT2500 as it just appears to be a brand-status price gouging clone of the BD30 to me IMO.

Hey I guess the whole thing boils down to, do I like it? And am I happy with it? And if after I have it in my setup for a while and the answer is yes, then that is the most important thing for me. Are looks and build quality important enough to me to warrant spending more? Most definitely. Excellent video and audio performance is of course top priority, but fit and finish is also very important to me.

So you ask why don't I just go for the 3800 instead? For me the answer is a simple one, I have no need for analog outs, on board decoding, or on board Realta video processing. The BT2500 was intended to be used with pre/pro's that have all the necessary processing and decoding like the AVP-A1HDCI. The AVP-A1HDCI has Realta, so there's no need for the transport to have it, high grade DAC's and AL 24 is also not needed as the AVP-A1HDCI has all that. MY "only" requirements I needed in a top end player/transport is the ability to bitstream all the new audio codecs and deliver a killer picture. The BT2500 does this and as a bonus it matches my AVP.

I don't need and will not use PiP, so the ability to listen to lossless audio while watching PiP is moot for me. I don't even listen to audio commentary on the discs I own (and never have since I first started collecting standard DVD's back in '97). So for me 2.0 is not at all important. I'm sure that the Panasonic BD50 will be an excellent machine, that will do everything. But let's say I did wait to get the Panasonic, basically I would never be using the benefits of 2.0. I don't need BD Live.

So I say again, the only thing I need is a rock solid transport to send TrueHD, DTS-HD High Res, DTS-HD MA, and deliver top PQ with Blu-ray movies and have excellent build quality. I will only be using the BT2500 to view Blu-ray movies. For standard DVD's I will continue to use the XA2.

And like I said, if the BT2500 does have enough of a drop in LFE with uncompressed PCM tracks, I will use my Sony S300 to view Blu-ray movies with uncompressed PCM. So if you think about it all three of the high def players that I have will be used solely as transports, with the Denon BT2500 being the upscale one. The AVP-A1HDCI is going to be the whole heart of the system that processes and decodes from all three high def players. So why the need to have built in this and built in that on the players?

I'm going to put the BT2500 through its paces over the weekend, and "if" it doesn't live up to my expectations, I do have the option to return it and get the 3800. So I will still have options available if I need them.



Seth

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by zepherman

Hey I guess the whole thing boils down to, do I like it? And am I happy with it? And if after I have it in my setup for a while and the answer is yes, then that is the most important thing for me. Are looks and build quality important enough to me to warrant spending more? Most definitely. Excellent video and audio performance is of course top priority, but fit and finish is also very important to me.

So you ask why don't I just go for the 3800 instead?

Or better yet, save $500 and get the BD30 which is the same machine in a different box. Hell, the eject button on the BD30 is actually better than the one on the Denon IMO

Heck for the price of the BT2500 you could get a BD50 and the new Gefen Realta processor box.

[zepherman]

Well so far I am extremely impressed with the BT2500. It's super quiet, fast at loading BD's, offers a killer picture (especially through the AVP's Realta), and is beautifully built. And very soon the -5 LFE issue will be corrected. I contacted Denon tech support and I was told that they are aware of the issue and will have a patch to fix it in about two weeks.

So once that's corrected I'll be good to go with LPCM. I'm happy.



Seth

[ganthc]

So Zepherman, now that August is right around the corner, are you waiting for the bdp-s550? It seems that it will allow you to output dvd at 480i to your incredible receiver, so you will get better upscaling that way. Have you decided on your upgrade for your bd player?

I think that if I was considering a standalone bd player, I would look at the bdp-s550, only because it is now cheaper than the Panny.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by ganthc

So Zepherman, now that August is right around the corner, are you waiting for the bdp-s550? It seems that it will allow you to output dvd at 480i to your incredible receiver, so you will get better upscaling that way. Have you decided on your upgrade for your bd player?

I think that if I was considering a standalone bd player, I would look at the bdp-s550, only because it is now cheaper than the Panny.

Actually no, I am very happy with my Denon 2500BTCI. And for standard DVD's my Yamaha DVD2300 does an excellent job being upconverted by the Denon AVP. So for DVD I use the Yamaha, for Blu-ray the Denon 2500/Sony S300, and for HD DVD the Toshiba XA2. So I think I've got my bases covered pretty well.

I'm sure the new Sony S550 is a an excellent player that pretty much does it all. But I'm very happy with what I have. So at least for the near term, all will stay as is.


Seth