Can the PS3's Upconversion Improve?

[Pirate]

I had a conversation with a hardcore computer geek about the PS3’s upconversion. I was saying that it wasn’t as good as the XA2 and some other players that had better video hardware. He claimed that, in time, the PS3 will outperform them all. He went on to explain that the hardware in the PS3 had the capability, but that the software wasn’t written for it yet that could truly take advantage of its abilities.

Since my expertise goes no further than last-gen home theatre technology, I wasn’t really in a position to argue the point. So, is there any truth to this, or is that guy just full of poo?

[Sehnzeleid]

The PS3 still has a long way to go...

The Sony PS3 continues to have extremely poor results in our SD DVD tests...This is worse performance than we see with even sub-$50 players at your local big box store.

I'm guessing its SD DVD features are software written and this dictates its performance. I can't really see Sony really focusing too much more on improving DVD on the PS3. It currently at least plays, upcons, and offers some unique features with DVD, but with BD being the "future" and the PS3 being a game console also, why should they care about DVD any further?

[Pirate]

So, it's not a hardware issue, but one of software?

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by Pirate

So, it's not a hardware issue, but one of software?

I assume it is, I doubt the PS3 has any dedicated hardware for DVD duties.

[Taxi]

And yet the PS3 is often described as the "best" Blu-Ray player?

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Taxi

And yet the PS3 is often described as the "best" Blu-Ray player?

Well, I gues for Blu-ray only, that's true.

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

I assume it is, I doubt the PS3 has any dedicated hardware for DVD duties.

This is where my head gets fuzzy. I know that the Realta chip is what powers the stellar upconversion for the XA2, so what powers the PS3’s video? What does the PS3 have in it that’s comparable, or am I thinking about this wrong?

[Ruined]

The problem is that upconversion & deinterlacing is not just a technical feat but also an artform. Silicon Optix has nailed it in a way no other low-cost chipmaker has to date, so players with their chips top the charts.

That being said, why would Sony dedicate tons of resources towards making a format they are trying to kill look better in terms of working on DVD upconversion? Sounds counterproductive, if you ask me. If anything, they will be working on ways to make BD look/sound/function better instead of DVD, PS3 downloads/media interface, DTS-HDMA decoding, etc. Also, its worth mentioning that while the PS3 is powerful, it does not have unlimited power. And, in some cases certain processes like deinterlacing may have been implemented in hardware instead of in software, making them much harder to alter.

In summary, my guess is that the PS3 won't do much better than you see now ever with DVD. In addition to the fact that it would require a lot of time and money to make DVD look on the scale of the Silicon Optix chips, it also may not be possible depending on the hardware the PS3 uses and further it is counterproductive towards having BD replace DVD. In short, the answer to your question is "most likely no." The only way I see PS3 getting better at upconversion is if Sony somehow decides it will actually help Blu-ray/PS3 and licenses the technology from someone else for a reasonable cost (i.e. like Toshiba's SD2HD tech might be possible on PS3 if Sony licensed it from them).

As for being "the best" Blu-ray player for BD alone, IMO the Panasonic BD50 will now be that player. It is very fast, bitstreams nextgen audio codecs, decodes everything including DTS-HDMA, has profile 2.0, more compatible IR remote instead of BT, all while being smaller and quieter than the PS3.

Right now the best combo for best DVD upscaling + best BD player is Toshiba HD-XA2/Onkyo DV-HD805 for DVD, and Panasonic BD50 for BD...

However with devices like this coming out:
Silicon Optix's Realta HQV Video Processor Selected for Gefen's Newest Video Processing... | Reuters

http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/gtvprod...p?prod_id=5276

...you might be able to feed this device 480i from the BD50 and get the same end result as an XA2! (much like the Onkyo receivers with HQV)

[Pirate]

Thanks guys.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Taxi

And yet the PS3 is often described as the "best" Blu-Ray player?

It has been. Perhaps the Panasonic BD-50 will beat it out. I wouldn't be surprised if more and more bd players beat it out eventually. Seems to me that the specs being changed in the future for improved performance will eventually outpace the ps3...unless Sony does what the xbox 360 has done and release a super mega version of the ps3 later on.

I do agree with Ruined in that blu-ray's goal may not be to provide the best dvd picture out there, when there is more to be done on the High def side. The ps3 was not any worse than my hd-a2 was, and I still disagree that dvd can be made to look tons better. It still looks blurry now compared to true HD from blu-ray or hd-dvd transfers.

I also don't think the ps3 is that noisy. It is very quiet, much more so than my hd-dvd players are.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

I also don't think the ps3 is that noisy. It is very quiet, much more so than my hd-dvd players are.

Like I said before, for every person I read who says the PS3 is quiet, another person says it is noisy watching movies. Many I've read say it is quiet for the first 30-40min and then it ramps up into the relatively loud stage 2 fan mode, even in an open area. If in an enclosed AV rack, I've read some state it can ramp up to stage 3 which is really loud. Either way, you can't beat the BD30/BD50 which are virtually silent all the time even in an enclosed AV rack. I would wager that Sony uses different contractors for the fans in PS3, so some batches are likely louder than others - but in any case, even with a "quiet" batch you will be limited with the PS3 as it needs airflow and a lot of it since it uses a software solution run on a powerful heat-generating general CPU (resulting in fan noise) while the BD30/BD50 use a cooler SoC solution that can run even in an enclosed AV rack.

[ganthc]

I wonder if Sony used cheaper fans to get the cost price down on the ps3? I bought the ps3 a few months after it debuted, so I might have gotten one with a better fan in it. It really is whisper quiet.

[sub780lime]

Originally Posted by ganthc

I wonder if Sony used cheaper fans to get the cost price down on the ps3? I bought the ps3 a few months after it debuted, so I might have gotten one with a better fan in it. It really is whisper quiet.

Mine sounds like an airplane every once in a while, though that could be the fan coupled with a constant read of the disc for some reason. How loud are the drives in yours?

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by sub780lime

Mine sounds like an airplane every once in a while, though that could be the fan coupled with a constant read of the disc for some reason. How loud are the drives in yours?

I rarely hear it running at all. On some games I will hear it spin a bit, but definitely not the fan blowing. I have spent a day watching bd movies, and not heard it blowing like an airplane or being above a whisper. There have been times where I left it running because it's so quiet, and I didn't realize it was still on.

[sub780lime]

Originally Posted by ganthc

I rarely hear it running at all. On some games I will hear it spin a bit, but definitely not the fan blowing. I have spent a day watching bd movies, and not heard it blowing like an airplane or being above a whisper. There have been times where I left it running because it's so quiet, and I didn't realize it was still on.

Definitely a different experience. Mine doesn't do it all the time and I will have to pay attention to see if it happens more when its paused. I don't remember really hearing it when its playing (but obviously the media sound could be drowning it out).

[Pirate]

This is why a 360 will NEVER be in my home theatre.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Pirate

This is why a 360 will NEVER be in my home theatre.

Tell that to poor Plissken.

[DVD-NUTTA]

I have a 60 GIG model & its not whisper quiet, its Silent. I have a habit of leaving the player on after I finish watching a movie, I have no idea its on until I see the little green/blue LED. It gets warm but never hot, unlike my Onkyo 605. On a side note on March 27th Here in S.E. Asia the PS3 40 GIG will be available in Satin Silver along with the dual shock controller. I here navy blue & red are next. Also www.t3.com has pics of the upcoming satin silver PS3 Slim & Lite due in the autumn.

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by Ruined

As for being "the best" Blu-ray player for BD alone, IMO the Panasonic BD50 will now be that player. It is very fast, bitstreams nextgen audio codecs, decodes everything including DTS-HDMA, has profile 2.0, more compatible IR remote instead of BT, all while being smaller and quieter than the PS3.

How much is the Panasonic BD50? It very well may be the best, I think the PS3 is the best value for your money since it can update it's firmware and also play games. And I'm assuming it's cheaper than the BD50. But if you don't care about games(like a lot of JSP will) then the extra $ to not have it play on a game system might not make a difference to you.

Originally Posted by ganthc

I wonder if Sony used cheaper fans to get the cost price down on the ps3? I bought the ps3 a few months after it debuted, so I might have gotten one with a better fan in it. It really is whisper quiet.

I bought my 40gb PS3 at the end of December. It's completely silent.

[Pirate]

FYI: I was listening to a podcast done by the folks at Audioholics. Clint DeBoer ran HQV on the PS3 (after the last FW update) and it apparently scored 100.

I think the best you can get is 130, so that’s pretty good.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Pirate

FYI: I was listening to a podcast done by the folks at Audioholics. Clint DeBoer ran HQV on the PS3 (after the last FW update) and it apparently scored 100.

I think the best you can get is 130, so that’s pretty good.

Seriously, the ps3's upconversion is no worse than the hd-a2/35's upconversion. The only reason I use the hd-dvd player as my upconvert dvd player is to save use on my ps3.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Seriously, the ps3's upconversion is no worse than the hd-a2/35's upconversion.

That's the funniest thing I've read online today. Thanks, I needed the laugh.
I had a co-worker's PS3 in my office last week updating their firmware for them. It's upconversion is one of the worst I've ever seen, second only to the horrible upconversion of my BDP-S1 (maybe there's something to this Sony sabotaging dvd playback theory). I couldn't standing watching a dvd on it. It's nowhere near as bad as the A35's upconversion, which my understand is the same as my A1's.

[Ruined]

Nothing compares to the Silcion Optix/ABT high end chips

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by Mikado

I bought my 40gb PS3 at the end of December. It's completely silent.

+1

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by dugpa

That's the funniest thing I've read online today. Thanks, I needed the laugh.
I had a co-worker's PS3 in my office last week updating their firmware for them. It's upconversion is one of the worst I've ever seen, second only to the horrible upconversion of my BDP-S1 (maybe there's something to this Sony sabotaging dvd playback theory). I couldn't standing watching a dvd on it. It's nowhere near as bad as the A35's upconversion, which my understand is the same as my A1's.

So according what I'm reading here, the ps3 is better than bdp-s1, and also better than the hd-a1 and hd-a35/a2. I guess any upconversion of dvd is a joke unless it's an hd-xa2 or going through a Reon-based processor?

[Wirehed]

I don't think I would say "joke."


The XA2 is simply *amazing* at upconverstion. It's quite a bit noticeably better than my Denon 3910. Comparably SD-DVD looks terrible on the PS3.

[ganthc]

I wish there was a place I could rent an hd-xa2 so I could see this amazing upconversion. In almost every case, dvd is hard to watch now because I watch most of my content in HD. So I guess I need to see with my own eyes how good sd-dvd can look with upconversion done right.