Onkyo/Integra/Yamaha DTS-HDMA Decoding Flaw Thread

[Ruined]

*** EDIT: Onkyo/Integra has fixed the issues via firmware upgrade on all of their products. See posts 22 and 23 below for more info.

Original post text:
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It has been confirmed by DTS that recent Onkyo/Integra and Yamaha receivers/processors - as well possibly Pioneer - have a faulty IC which results in extremely loud bursts of static that may damage your speakers on some Blu-ray titles:
AVS Forum - View Single Post - **WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed can cause speaker damage!!!

Originally Posted by DTS

DTS Global Product manager Ronny Katz confirms that the problem is caused by a faulty DTS Decoder Chip (IC) in the Receivers of the companies of Onkyo and Yamaha. Recievers from Denon, Pioneer and Sony, which uses a different DTS Decoder Chip are unaffected and has no difficulties bit-streaming the DTS-HD MA tracks from the titles concerned. DTS has a made a fix/update to their Encoding software which will address the problem by taking the faulty DTS Decoder Chip into consideration, thus avoiding the issue on future Blu-Ray releases. It is however unknown at this time, if the Recievers with the faulty DTS Decoder chips can be fixed to work with the current DTS-MA discs by firmware update.

A more detailed description of how to recreate the problem on said receivers is found here:
**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed can cause speaker damage!!! - AVS Forum

This thread is designed to discover which build date Onkyo/Yamaha receivers are affected, if not all of them, and which firmware revisions fix the issue. Further, it is to document how Onkyo/Integra and Yamaha respond to the decoding flaw in their product. Please check the second link and [i]using a pair of cheap headphones NOT on your head but around your neck - so that you ears don't get blasted out - test your receiver/processor if you can with a bitstreaming BD player to see if your build date/firmware revision is affected. Also document what firmware your unit was shipped with, as some receivers have multiple firmwares which may not all have been updated if you updated it yourself.

Note that Yamaha apparently already has a fix available for its German customers. I am guessing that Onkyo uses the same exact chipset since it has the same exact behavior, so it also should be fixable via firmware. Onkyo apparently has stated that firmware is in the works but isn't ready yet.

Here is the list of receivers/processors believed to be affected by this bug:

Onkyo 605, 705, 805, 875, 905, PR885
Integra DTR-8.8, DTC-9.8
Yamaha RX-V1800, RX-V3800

[Sehnzeleid]

Shit like this always happens right after I buy something.

Does the "POP" just occur suddenly while the track is playing at random or when it first starts or what? Also is it just DTS MA that's affected? Are the DTS Express, ES, HD, and 96/24 variants clear from this?

Also how soon will we see the "fixed" DTS-MA tracks? I'm sure at least "some" future BDs are already encoded using this faulty software...?

Unsure if this is it or not, but I did encounter some weirdness:

- Onkyo 805 as a pre/pro to an Outlaw 7200
- Toshiba A35
- Studio Canal's French T2 HD DVD bitstreamed DTS-HD MA

The second time I tried to play the disc the 805 recognized the MA stream as "Stereo" and I got a weird "pop, pop, pop, pop, pop..." as the stream played, like it was "tripping" over itself. The volume control worked though so I was able turn it down and it wasn't really "that" loud to begin with. I then stopped and started the disc again and the MA track was recognized and played fine.

Not a massive problem for me "right now", I only have a PS3 and 2 DTS MA titles for HD DVD with an A35, but still I hope it's cleared up somehow.

[Ruined]

Well, we know it can most likely be fixed by firmware since Yamaha released firmware fixing it already - and Onkyo most likely has exactly the same decoding chip since they behave exactly the same w/ the bug. Onkyo's firmware just isn't ready yet. The only downside is that you will likely need to ship/bring your unit to a service center for the upgrade.

Since its a DSP issue, on the Onkyo units that means the upgrade must be performed by playing a firmware CD in a CD/DVD player with optical output - which is then hooked up to an optical input of the Onkyo.

[powerknowledge]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Shit like this always happens right after I buy something.

Tell me about it! Right there on the AVS link of affected player/AVR combos: Panasonic BD30 and Onkyo 805. Welcome to the core of my HT. Bah.

[quote=Does the "POP" just occur suddenly while the track is playing at random or when it first starts or what? Also is it just DTS MA that's affected? Are the DTS Express, ES, HD, and 96/24 variants clear from this?[/QUOTE]

The first and second posts in the AVS thread that Ruined linked to says where the pops occur, and from what it says it seems that "just" DTSMA is affected. I don't have any of those titles (and likely won't get any of them), so I can't check for myself. But who knows what future titles might come through the pipeline and blow out my speakers? (Actually, that might be OK; I'm runing 12 year old JBLs that are fine, but not fantastic... ).

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The only downside is that you will likely need to ship/bring your unit to a service center for the upgrade.

Since its a DSP issue, on the Onkyo units that means the upgrade must be performed by playing a firmware CD in a CD/DVD player with optical output - which is then hooked up to an optical input of the Onkyo.

Sounds like I could do that at home.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Sounds like I could do that at home.

Perhaps, but Onkyo in the past has not released DSP firmware upgrades to home users. Some have gotten MAIN FW upgrades which can be performed via serial cable, but none have received a DSP FW upgrade to my knowledge even when requesting the latest (and there was at least one of those thus far).

[chlngr1970]

So, they should have this sorted out by the time I am ready to pull the trigger...hopefully

j

[Taxi]

Great. Just great.. Thanks for the 9.8 recommendation, Ruined.





Just kidding.

Does anybody know where on Close Encounters this "pop" is heard? I could use some new speakers, so I can safely test on my old ones.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Great. Just great.. Thanks for the 9.8 recommendation, Ruined.

Hey, if you took Pirate's "shiny Elite" advice you'd have the same issue!

Does anybody know where on Close Encounters this "pop" is heard? I could use some new speakers, so I can safely test on my old ones.

The AVS thread I linked in the first post has all the answers. If its not there, I'm sure the person who added it to the list has the timecode.

I woudn't worry anyways. Yamaha uses the same chipset and has already got it fixed via firmware. Plus, the DTC-9.8 had a similar bug in its v1.0 DSP firmware with DD+ & TrueHD that was corrected with the Sep 2007 1.4 MAIN/DSP/HDMI firmware package upgrade.

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Does anybody know where on Close Encounters this "pop" is heard? I could use some new speakers, so I can safely test on my old ones.

Close Encounters has the "pop"? I hear some MA tracks have this while others don't.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Close Encounters has the "pop"? I hear some MA tracks have this while others don't.

Yeah, that's what the first post in the AVS thread that Ruined linked to says. I didn't have time to look through all the posts earlier today, but maybe I'll give it a look now and see what I can find out.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Hey, if you took Pirate's "shiny Elite" advice you'd have the same issue!

Yeah, but at least he'd have something pretty to look during the popping.

[Taxi]

I only got through the first 45 minutes of the Original theatrical version of Close Encounters. No popping yet. (I hope that's the version that the pop can be heard.... Info is very sparse... )

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

I only got through the first 45 minutes of the Original theatrical version of Close Encounters. No popping yet. (I hope that's the version that the pop can be heard.... Info is very sparse... )

Yeah I wish I had the BD30 to test this, but ATM I have a lot of the titles in the list with no means to test them since I am waiting for the BD50.

I *DO* know that in September 2007 Onkyo revised the DSP hardware on the DTC-9.8 and had a major firmware upgrade. I am curious to see if those revisions fixed this issue.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Yeah I wish I had the BD30 to test this, but ATM I have a lot of the titles in the list with no means to test them since I am waiting for the BD50.

I *DO* know that in September 2007 Onkyo revised the DSP hardware on the DTC-9.8 and had a major firmware upgrade. I am curious to see if those revisions fixed this issue.

My 9.8 has the 1.4 firmware. I'm not sure if that is the 09/2007 version or not. Since I don't have Audissey Pro I didn't see any reason to upgrade to 1.5. Nothing I've seen yet says that the 1.6 firmware fixes this problem for sure.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

My 9.8 has the 1.4 firmware. I'm not sure if that is the 09/2007 version or not. Since I don't have Audissey Pro I didn't see any reason to upgrade to 1.5. Nothing I've seen yet says that the 1.6 firmware fixes this problem for sure.

From what I've read, it appears no versions of the Onkyo have it fixed... Just wanted to confirm for sure.

[Ruined]

Heh, that guy from DTS is on AVSFORUM now disowning the above statement, saying he was misquoted.

[Ruined]

I'd urge Integra owners to inquire/complain here:
Integra Home Theater

And if you have time, call the support line to document your problem:
Integra phone support: 800-225-1946

***************
Onkyo online support form:
http://www.onkyousa.com/feedback_form.cfm

Onkyo phone support: 800-229-1687

[Taxi]

I watched the rest of Close Encounters last night in DTS MA and no pop.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Taxi

I watched the rest of Close Encounters last night in DTS MA and no pop.

I'd chime in on AVSFORUM and try to get clarification of the pop location, in case its a different cut... Or maybe not all receivers are affected?

[Ruined]

A little more light has been shed on this, it appears to be a bug in the Texas Instruments DSP decoding chip used in the Onkyo/Yamaha receivers. Some of the other receivers out use an Analog Devices DSP which does not have the bug. Onkyo/Integra is giving out ticket numbers, presumably to deal with the issue once they've got a fix finished.

[Sehnzeleid]

ONKYO: IMAGINATIVE SIGHT & SOUND

DSP Firmware Update of TX SR 605, 705, 805, 875 and TX NR 905

Bugfix: Pop-noise with some HD-DTS material

To carry out the update you will need the software supplied by ONKYO, a PC with the possibility to burn
a an Audio-CD, a CD player with optical output, an optical cable and your Receiver!

Note: Warning! During the writing process, DO NOT turn off the power or disconnect
the optical cable. If the writing process is only partially completed, the Receiver’s
Flash IC may need to be replaced. Some CD/DVD players are not suitable for this update.

ONKYO advise that if the writing process does not work, please try a different player.

1. Unzip the file, burn it as Audio-CD and finalize it.
File CD_SR6050_08214A.wav is used for TX SR 605 only!
File CD_SR805 123_08214A_07518A_07820B.wav is used for all other models of x05 series.

Please put the CD into the CD player and connect the player to Optical Input 1 of the receiver.

2. Switch on the receiver. Wait for 10 seconds. Then press and hold the “DISPLAY” button and while
holding it press the “STANDBY/ON” button. This will show in the display the main firmware versions
within the unit.

TX SR 605:
Within 3 seconds, press the Tone “ +“ button twice. Now display is showing the DSP firmware
version, press the “CD” button on the Receiver, then press Play on the CD Player. The Receiver’s
display will now say “S/PDIF Update…” for about 15 seconds then “Writing…” for about 30 seconds.
When the writing process has finished the display will say “Complete!”, then “Clear”, then the
Receiver will go to Standby mode. It is possible, that the unit will not switch OFF automatically, in
this case wait for another 10 minutes before switching OFF manually.

TX SR 705 – SR 875 and TX NR 905:
Within 3 seconds, press the Tone “ +“ button. Now the display showing the DSP 1 st firmware version,
press the “Return” button on the Receiver, then press Play on the CD Player. The Receiver’s display
will now say “S/PDIF Update…” for about 15 seconds then “Writing 1 st DSP…” for about 15 seconds,
than again S/DIF Update. Now you see “Writing 2 st DSP…” than again S/DIF Update before it
changes to “Writing 3 st DSP…” When the writing process has finished the display will say
“Complete!”, then “Clear”, then the Receiver will go to Standby mode. It is possible, that the unit will
not switch OFF automatically, in this case wait for another 10 minutes before switching OFF manually.

3. Now the update is complete! You can check that it has been successful if you read out the FW
version:
Switch on the receiver. Wait for 10 seconds. Then press and hold the “DISPLAY” button and while
holding it press the “STANDBY/ON” button. The display will show now the Firmware version's.
This will disappear from the display after a few seconds and the Receiver will return to its normal
mode.

If you experience any difficulties carrying out this update please contact ONYKO or your local authorised
Service station. Please note that ONKYO does not accept any responsibility for any damage or problems
caused by attempting or doing this update.

Overview of new DSP Firmware version:
TX SR 605 TX SR 705 TX SR 805 TX SR 875 TX NR 905
DSP 08214A 1. SR8051/08214A 1. SR8051/08214A 1. SR8051/08214A 1. SR8051/08214A
2. SR8052/07518A 2. SR8052/07518A 2. SR8052/07518A 2. SR8052/07518A
3. SR8053/07820B 3. SR8053/07820B 3. SR8053/07820B 3. SR8053/07820B

http://rapidshare.de/files/38949782/DSP_UP..._-_905.zip.html

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

New DSP Firmware

Integra DTC-9.8 & DTR-8.8 owners have confirmed that the above-linked 705-905 DSP firmware works peachy on the DTC-9.8, apparently the DTC-9.8 shares the same DSP hardware as the 705-905. So, if you are a DTC-9.8 owner, feel free to use the same firmware upgrade linked above - use the file marked for use with the 705-905 series

There is also a MAIN firmware 1.08 upgrade coming out soon for the DTC-9.8 which is seperate from the above link, and is not available to the public yet. That will fix some remaining Reon issues apparently. (The DTC-9.8 has like 5-6 different firmwares or something, 3 DSP firmwares, a MAIN firmware, and an HDMI firmware). It is a bit more difficult to apply as it requires a serial port connection to a computer (Keyspan USB > serial adapter is recommended).

[brian]

I tried applying the update earlier (on the 805), and I saw it applying DSP update 1 and 2, and I turned around, so I'm not sure if it got to the 3rd chip. However, it's been several minutes, and the receiver still displays "S/PIDF update." How long is this supposed to take?

Edit - After 10 minutes, I turned it off. Nothing appears to be broken. All my calibrations were reset, though.