Death of HD DVD hasn't helped Blu Ray

[chlngr1970]

Acording to Electronic House, the death of HD DVD hasn't done much for Blu Ray.

Research firm NPD Group says (via USA Today) that the demise of HD DVD hasn’t really helped Blu-ray sales much.

In fact, the report says that Blu-ray hardware sales dropped 40 percent from January to February. Also, sales only grew 2 percent from February to March.

However, that number excludes the number of PlayStation consoles, so the real number of players involved is a mystery. However, Sony says they sold 257,120 PS3s in March, doubling 2007’s numbers.

j

[plissken99]

I dunno anything about that, but since the Blu Ray victory, we can't keep the BD players in stock at my Best Buy.

[Vonner]

I still think the prices of blu-ray discs is hurting sales more than anything. A player is a one time purchase that could be justified, but when you have to shell out near $30 a disc (at B&M stores), it's not going to get the impulse sales that DVD got in it's hay day when new releases were selling for $14.99 regularly.

[dugpa]

In fact, the report says that Blu-ray hardware sales dropped 40 percent from January to February. Also, sales only grew 2 percent from February to March.

Of course sales are going to drop after the holidays, when fewer big titles are being released and their are fewer sales going on. Let's wait and compare Q4 last year to this year before we declare blu-ray sales declining. Or compare the years as a whole. To compare Q4 of last year to Q1 of this year is outright dishonest.
As to prices hurting sales, high prices didn't seem to hurt dvd being adopted, and they were about in the same price range when they came out. New releases were not $14.99 when dvd first hit, nor even really for a few years after that. It wasn't until dvd had been adopted by the masses that prices started falling.

[billnye97]

Personally (I know I'm the minority) I am actually buying more HD DVD now then Blu Ray. I'm just getting such good deals that I can't pass them up. So until the deals stop around where I live I'll continue to limit my Blu selections.

[Ruined]

Another contributing factor is that it is a really bad time to buy BD players, with much better players on the horizon.

Still, Blu-ray has a long way to go to prove more than a niche format.

[biglyle]

Was this posted by the opposite world twin of Jast3r?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by biglyle

Was this posted by the opposite world twin of Jast3r?

You tell me, here is their website:
NPD Market Research




Big difference between intelligently quoting an article and commenting on it and "OMFG Blu-rya is teh Shitz!! teh deAdobox is toast with teh hardwarz thattt blllooooz!" Seems like all you want is gumdrops-and-rainbows discussion posted about Blu-ray, but adults can discuss a topic by seeing both the positive and negative sides inherent within. If you don't allow that and browbeat everyone who posts something remotely negative, you start looking very biased (or bitter) yourself.

[LeChuck]

Sounds a bit more like someone is hoping writing some post hoc ergo propter hoc new report is going to make some entertaining and very sly news. There is a lot more to consider than just the death of HD when it comes to BD sales such as it is March (a slow reatail time of year), there is a recession to boot, and blue is not really in right now. I would say that until much more time has passed and the economy has resettled itself, there is no point to even bothering with such hasty and misguided interpretations.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by LeChuck

Sounds a bit more like someone is hoping writing some post hoc ergo propter hoc new report is going to make some entertaining and very sly news. There is a lot more to consider than just the death of HD when it comes to BD sales such as it is March (a slow reatail time of year), there is a recession to boot, and blue is not really in right now. I would say that until much more time has passed and the economy has resettled itself, there is no point to even bothering with such hasty and misguided interpretations.

Well, on one hand you are right. On the other hand, there is nothing misguided necessarily about saying the death of HD DVD hasn't helped Blu-ray yet. If the sales figures show that there hasn't been a significant increase in sales, then it is true that the death of HD DVD hasn't helped Blu-ray at this point in time. That of course may change in six months, but for now it seems that Blu-ray sales are a bit flat.

I think this is due to a lot of factors, personally:

1. US Economy.
2. Street prices of both Blu-ray players and discs were raised after HD DVD died - players that were selling for $300-$400 all of a sudden jumped to $400-$500 and discs that were 50% off or BOGO/B2G1 most of the time jumped to 15-30% discount at best most of the time.
3. Transition period for players, with more full-featured models arriving in May-August.
4. Typical dip in spending after a spending season.
5. Many of the 1million+ people who invested in HD DVD may not be so eager to adopt a technology that still has not proven itself as a mainstream winner, especially after their own format was essentially artificially killed off by one of the studios trying to sell goods on the new format.
6. Possible that some of the Blu-ray sales were spurned by Playstation 3 gamers who wanted to support the technology deeply integrated into their video game system of choice; this excitement may now have died off with the end of the "war."
7. Infrastructure for Blu-ray players and Blu-ray discs is still not mature enough to facilitate buying of players/discs by the masses.
8. Ever-looming threat of HD-downloads surpassing HD-on disc in the future mentioned in every other article that mentions Blu-ray; not helped by recent actions of studios like Warner Bros of allowing day-and-date sales of movies on Apple TV.


That is not to say that there weren't reasons that Blu-ray sales *should* have gone up, though:
1. Obviously WB's decision + HD DVD's folding you'd think would have caused a massive spike in BD sales if most people were really excited about it - while demand did raise briefly, it seems after January that demand fell off.
2. Less competition = less confusion for J6P = more sales.
3. Without having to stock both formats, stores should have been able to lower prices more since there is less overhead now.
4. Marketing is not diluted by counter-marketing
5. People who were fans of Blu-ray should be less hesitant to spend money on the technology now that it is the guaranteed victor of the format war. Buying players for other rooms, more movies, etc.
6. Announcement of stimulus package in late-Jan should have assuaged fears of some about US economy.

So, HD DVD is only part of the situation - but it does appear that right now there has not been any massive boost in sales as a result of killing off HD DVD. Again, that may change in the future.

[No6PackJoe]

Originally Posted by Ruined

2. Street prices of both Blu-ray players and discs were raised after HD DVD died - players that were selling for $300-$400 all of a sudden jumped to $400-$500 and discs that were 50% off or BOGO/B2G1 most of the time jumped to 15-30% discount at best most of the time.

Wife was out and picked up a dvd, I said to why didn't you buy the Blu-ray version, she said, i'm not paying $15 more for the same thing, I said but the blu-ray is better, she says it's not worth $15 more. , this seems to be what a lot of our friends think as well.

[iluvalex]

Total agreement. Price of Hi-Def DVD is substantially prohibitive. I guess I'm pretty well locked into the under $15 mentality. I watch my regular DVD's and I'm happy. By the way, I've got Hi-Def satellite and really do enjoy the programs and movies. It's just not enough, as mentioned, to start forking over $15 more for the same thing. That shit starts to add up after awhile.

[plissken99]

Originally Posted by No6PackJoe

Wife was out and picked up a dvd, I said to why didn't you buy the Blu-ray version, she said, i'm not paying $15 more for the same thing, I said but the blu-ray is better, she says it's not worth $15 more. , this seems to be what a lot of our friends think as well.

Well, divorce time, cuz thats just wrong.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Well, divorce time, cuz thats just wrong.

I agree. Better yet, sell your wife and use the money to upgrade all your dvds to blu-ray discs. Then maybe she'll learn the importance of HD.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by iluvalex

Total agreement. Price of Hi-Def DVD is substantially prohibitive. I guess I'm pretty well locked into the under $15 mentality. I watch my regular DVD's and I'm happy. By the way, I've got Hi-Def satellite and really do enjoy the programs and movies. It's just not enough, as mentioned, to start forking over $15 more for the same thing. That shit starts to add up after awhile.

You guys would have been screwed back in the LD days (yeah, I know, I'm an outdated old geezer).
Anyway, I don't understand why people can't seem to be able to take advantage of sales? Seems like there's one almost every other week, at least once a month certainly. I have about 130 blu-ray discs or so and I doubt I've paid more than $15 for more than 30 of them. Just wait and whatever title you want will most likely hit a sale soon.
I do have to confess I'm puzzled that people don't want to pay more for HD discs than they do for standard DVDs. In most cases you're getting one hell of an upgrade in both picture and sound. Seems odd to expect to pay the same for more.

[chlngr1970]

I agree with Dugpa about the pemium price for premium product. Hell, I still pay more for dts LDs than I do for DVD. Problem is, when people grow accustomed to paying for something, they don't like paying more. I won't even pay more than, say, $15 shipped for an HDDVD. Since the general population doesn't see the added value in HDM, it may not go anywhere...

j

[billnye97]

Originally Posted by Ruined

6. Possible that some of the Blu-ray sales were spurned by Playstation 3 gamers who wanted to support the technology deeply integrated into their video game system of choice; this excitement may now have died off with the end of the "war."

I have a feeling that many PS3 owners were also buying Blu Ray movies till some good games came out for the system. Now it is seeing better games released the Blu Ray movie buying also goes down.

[No6PackJoe]

Originally Posted by dugpa

You guys would have been screwed back in the LD days (yeah, I know, I'm an outdated old geezer).
Anyway, I don't understand why people can't seem to be able to take advantage of sales? Seems like there's one almost every other week, at least once a month certainly. I have about 130 blu-ray discs or so and I doubt I've paid more than $15 for more than 30 of them. Just wait and whatever title you want will most likely hit a sale soon.
I do have to confess I'm puzzled that people don't want to pay more for HD discs than they do for standard DVDs. In most cases you're getting one hell of an upgrade in both picture and sound. Seems odd to expect to pay the same for more.

I was around in the LD days, and my wife would get them at cost, I miss those days. I don't shop online very much, and there are never any sales at the BM in my area ($34.99 for new releases), I'm more an impulse buyer.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by No6PackJoe

and there are never any sales at the BM in my area ($34.99 for new releases), I'm more an impulse buyer.

Just what BM do you have that never has sales? Even Best Buy and Circuit City have good sales from time to time. Hell, I picked up The Simpsons Movie and Live Free or Die Hard for $15 each at a Target sale. Surely there's a Target near you?

[ganthc]

I think people are upset because they want brand new releases to be at $20 when they come out. At BM's you really can't get dvd's for that low sometimes when they first come out. I agree. Either you pay the premium for getting the disc right away, or you wait until a sale comes along, like the Fry's sale. Sad but true, but a lot of those Fox titles that were there, I got a the higher Fox price of $28. But then again, I did get it opening day. If I had waited, I would have gotten them for cheaper during a sale. Go figure!

[Wirehed]

Amazon has fantastic prices and you don't have to wait for a sale.

Fry's has some kind of Blu-ray sale just about every week. I know not everyone has a Fry's, but just about everyone has Amazon.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

Amazon has fantastic prices and you don't have to wait for a sale.

Fry's has some kind of Blu-ray sale just about every week. I know not everyone has a Fry's, but just about everyone has Amazon.

True, but new releases and all Fox titles are still too expensive IMO. We shouldn't be paying more than $20/disc on a discount internet store like Amazon, but new releases there go for 23.95 - 27.95 on average, and Fox catalog titles are usually 27.95 on average. Yes, there are sales every other month but it gets tiresome waiting for a sale just to get a movie you want.

Also, I'm on the east coast and there are no Fry's around here.

[Mr. Furious]

Frankly, I've always preferred to buy rather than rent. However, Netflix is changing my mind. It's just too damned easy.

What's really crazy is the number of movies I've watched on demand. The quality is less than SD DVD (stereo only sound). However, I've been watching 80's TV series and shows I'd NEVER buy on any format. I've pretty much forgotten about buying movies. For me, the format war almost totally ended my DVD buying obsession. Instead of buying 1 or 2 movies a week, I rent.

See, a $15 premium for HD is obscene. The VHS -> DVD made sense since you got a ton of convenience features that weren't present in VHS. Portability really went through the roof. With BD, you don't get an advance in convenience; you actually take a hit because of the portability limitations. From an average consumer's standpoint, the audio is unnoticeable and the video improvement may not be apparent on a 40" low end LCD versus DVD.

In the computer industry, old technology drops to a low dollar value and the latest usually takes its price point. For example, the NVIDIA TURBO MEGA 1100 w/ OMGHAX memory sells at $400. The next generation card (the 1200) releases and takes that price point of $400 and the 1100 goes to $250. In the movie industry, that hasn't happened. BD hasn't supplanted DVD in price or convenience. It's strong suit, video quality, isn't recognized by a large chunk of the population.

That's your problem. It's all about price and performance in a time of economic slowdown. If Netflix partners with Xbox, you'd likely get a power house and the beginning of the download generation. Frankly, Sony forgot that HD DVD wasn't the only competitor.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Frankly, I've always preferred to buy rather than rent. However, Netflix is changing my mind. It's just too damned easy.

What's really crazy is the number of movies I've watched on demand. The quality is less than SD DVD (stereo only sound). However, I've been watching 80's TV series and shows I'd NEVER buy on any format. I've pretty much forgotten about buying movies. For me, the format war almost totally ended my DVD buying obsession. Instead of buying 1 or 2 movies a week, I rent.

See, a $15 premium for HD is obscene. The VHS -> DVD made sense since you got a ton of convenience features that weren't present in VHS. Portability really went through the roof. With BD, you don't get an advance in convenience; you actually take a hit because of the portability limitations. From an average consumer's standpoint, the audio is unnoticeable and the video improvement may not be apparent on a 40" low end LCD versus DVD.

In the computer industry, old technology drops to a low dollar value and the latest usually takes its price point. For example, the NVIDIA TURBO MEGA 1100 w/ OMGHAX memory sells at $400. The next generation card (the 1200) releases and takes that price point of $400 and the 1100 goes to $250. In the movie industry, that hasn't happened. BD hasn't supplanted DVD in price or convenience. It's strong suit, video quality, isn't recognized by a large chunk of the population.

That's your problem. It's all about price and performance in a time of economic slowdown. If Netflix partners with Xbox, you'd likely get a power house and the beginning of the download generation. Frankly, Sony forgot that HD DVD wasn't the only competitor.

I don't think Sony has forgotten anything. It is the whiners on price that have forgotten that blu-ray barely been around for 2 years. Ya'll have forgotten that dvd was initially more expensive than vhs, and it was slow to catch on before prices went down. You forget that initial dvd players didn't offer all the features they do now, and were very expensive. You forget that it took a long time before dvd supplanted vhs, despite all the conveniences you listed. And you forget that even now, vhs is still being made available at rental stores and retailers. Because no matter how far technology goes, there will be those that hold on to older ways of doing things.

I think blu-ray is on a good growth track right now. They have beaten off the biggest threat to its existence (hd-dvd), and it has solidified all studio support behind it. Prices continue to drop on players, and if you want to find deals (just like in the "old days" of dvd), you can still find them for blu-ray software. The biggest impediment to blu-ray growth, imo, is getting consumers to buy hdtvs. As more and more people watch programming in hd, they will not be able to tolerate watching blurry dvds anymore.

In the meantime, we can all enjoy movies in 1080p picture and lossless sound. We don't have to wait on heavily compressed and weaker download options to meet our needs. We can get the best right now.

[Ruined]

Is Blu-ray really "the best" overall? It may have the best picture and sound quality, but it gets its ass kicked in portability, consumer friendly DRM, price, convenience, enhanced interactivity, and virtually every other category EXCEPT video and sound. Now while video and sound are probably the most important, those other things are very important too. It will be tough to convince consumers to ditch a great cheap format (DVD) and go for your expensive incompatible format when all you really have at this point is better sound/video to offer, and your competitors are starting to offer cheaper and more convenient HD download options.

To be honest, with all these great new DVD upscaling solutions and upcoming download services I'm starting to get a bad pit in the feeling of my stomach when I look at my Blu-ray collection that it will have the same eventual fate that HD DVD had. And its not helping that I can't find a player under $1000 that covers my needs...