REVIEW: Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu-ray Disc Player

[Ruined]

Review is based on v1.02 firmware.

Opening the box
When I first unpacked the Pioneer, it was evident that this player is built well. It weighed a ton more than my previous Panasonic BD30 and everything about it felt sturdier. Tray was nice and smooth and styling was good. The remote is adequate but the ENTER button on it feels kinda cheap; I have my Harmony 880 setup now, though, so it doesn't matter all too much.

Video
Getting down to brass tacks, the video quality of the BDP-51FD is second to none. It has builtin 8bit > 12bit per channel color upconversion, which no other player on the market features. When a film's master is prepared to be encoded for Blu-ray, that master has to be downconverted to 8bit - most studio masters are 10bit or 12bit. During the downconversion process to 8bit, BILLIONS of colors are lost. The Pioneer's color upconversion looks for hints of color loss in gradients, for example, and essentially injects new color into the picture in order to make color transitions more smooth and lifelike. When put next to a BD50 or PS3 for instance, the Pioneer is clearly king of video quality thanks to its color upconversion.

The Pioneer also gives you a ton of controls to tweak all aspects of the video, and even lets you send the original source resolution to a scaler just in case you have a scaler that is better than the one in the Pioneer. Paired with a scaling chip like Reon it will ensure highest quality deinterlacing for 1080i/30fps Blu-ray Discs as well as DVD. The player lets you force 1080p24 as well, since some A/V equipment require this due to HDMI stupidity. Overall, this player crushes every other player in the under-$1000 range when talking about video quality & tweaks.

The builtin DVD upconversion of the 51FD is good based on my HQV test results, however it is easily suprassed by high end processors like Reon, Realta, Qdeo, etc. So the 51FD's upconversion quality is much better than the Panasonic BD50, but yet worse than most high end video processing chips... For reference, I would position it a couple of notches above a Toshiba HD-A35, but a couple notches below a Toshiba HD-XA2. Then again if you use source direct to an external video processor, you can get results with this player superior to an XA2.

Audio
The audio on the Pioneer is also top notch. In addition to having jitter reduction circuits to ensure LPCM digital transmission is highest quality, it also has high-end Wolfson DACs for 7.1 analog output. The player does have bass management and level controls, though delay times are absent from the player. The sound quality overall, once again, is excellent.

This player supports decoding of all formats, but DTS-HDMA decoding will not be active until a future firmware update. Pioneer has promised it is coming though, and it is in the product's literature - so a bit of patience is needed here (besides, the 1.5mbps core sounds pretty much the same anyway). The player also supports bitstreaming. So no matter how you want your audio delivered, this machine has it covered!

While not quite as impressive as its video section, once again we have top notch quality in the audio department.


Speed
The 51FD struggles a bit in this area with its current firmware. It only takes 20 seconds to boot from cold off to power on, which is quick compared to competing players. However the Pioneer does take a long time to load discs with BD+ or heavy BD-J. Menu operation is snappy on most discs, with the exception of some select titles heavy on BD-J. This player is able to render BD-J menus fast as evidenced by the DVE disc's menus, so I believe it is simply not optimized yet. So Pioneer does adequately here, but could use improvement.

EDIT: As of the latest firmware, the Pioneer is now very fast in all menus including intensive BD-J menus.

Functionality
The player is very polished and the setup menus are all very smooth. There are a few glitches with certain titles (lip sync, resume problems) but it appears Pioneer has been very quick to resolve glitches thus far with this player with earlier firmwares. The 51FD is based on a new design unlike most of the other BD players this year, which use chipsets from 2007 that have had much more debug time. I am impressed with Pioneer's responsiveness in this category. I believe with a few more firmware updates this player will be fully up to speed. Its BD-J implementation just isn't quite complete yet IMO.

Profiles
The 51FD is a Profile 1.1/BonusView machine. This means it can display PiP and some of the other HD extras. However it does not support BD-Live/2.0. While I at first wanted a BD-Live player, after reading the downsides of BD-Live (privacy invasion + increased DRM) I decided 1.1 would be fine.

I can understand some wanting a 2.0 player to have "the final spec," but I don't believe 2.0 will be the final spec. Full color 3-D video still needs to be added and the BDA actually commented a couple of weeks ago that they are still trying to determine whether the 3-D decoding should occur in the player or display; you might need a new player profile and/or a new HDMI revision for this to occur. Thus, you really aren't safe with a 2.0 player as full color 3-D video is not part of the spec. BD-Live extras thus far have been underwhelming and take ages to download, which kinda defeats their purpose in the first place.

Overall
The 51FD is a fantastic player overall. It is not as fast to load discs as PS3, Panasonic BD30/BD50, or Sony 350/550, but it mops the floor with them when comparing video quality. Thus, I highly recommend this player so long as you can wait an extra 20-30 seconds for discs to load. If you cannot wait this time, one of the above players might be better for you - but you will lose video quality in the process.

In conclusion, it appears Pioneer has unleashed a beast of hardware here. As with all Blu-ray players based on new designs, the software still needs to go through some more firmware updates before everything falls into place.

If you are one that wants top shelf a/v quality, you need to take the BDP-51FD for a spin. There is no doubt it will be at the top of the pack in video quality. Highly recommended for home theater enthusiasts.

Also, Pioneer makes a model for $200 more (BDP-05FD) that is identical in A/V performance except it has a higher quality analog component video jack, which is bypassed if you use HDMI... So I don't think that upgrade is worth it.

Feel free to fire away with questions!

[Iguana Man]

Great review except for price?

What does this puppy cost?

Sounds like a good machine and one (since I am a bit pro-Pio) for me to consider not to mention you oozing over it.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

What does this puppy cost?

Amazon's got it for $599: Amazon.com: Pioneer BonusView BDP-51FD Blu-Ray Disc Player: Electronics

KM

[Pirate]

Did you actually place this player next to a PS3 to determine that it "mops the floor with it," or was that just an educated guess?

[dugpa]

Tempting, but no deal on the profile 1.1. And before you go on about future 3d specs, I addressed the whole 3d issue and why it's a non-issue in another thread (which you conveniently ignored). Content is king, and there's not enough 3d content that anyone would want for it to matter. 3D is and always will be a novelty until it's utilized for major summer tentpole films. So 2.0 is a good safe profile to settle on.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Did you actually place this player next to a PS3 to determine that it "mops the floor with it," or was that just an educated guess?

Personally I didn't, but about 4-5 reliable people on AVSFORUM have done side-by-sides with:

Sony BDP-S350
Pioneer BDP-95FD
Panasonic BD30
PS3

...and in all cases the 51FD is noticably better. Also someone on this forum just did a comparison vs. the Sony S350 and found the same. That is because none of those players can do the color upconversion the 51FD does which makes a significant improvement on the end result - you get back some of those billion+ colors that were lost in downconversion with the 51FD. You can turn the color upconversion on and off and it is amazing how it makes the picture look more lifelike, without impacting accuracy. Really cool technology...

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Tempting, but no deal on the profile 1.1. And before you go on about future 3d specs, I addressed the whole 3d issue and why it's a non-issue in another thread (which you conveniently ignored). Content is king, and there's not enough 3d content that anyone would want for it to matter. 3D is and always will be a novelty until it's utilized for major summer tentpole films. So 2.0 is a good safe profile to settle on.

The report that came out a couple of weeks ago stated that the studios are pushing for 3-D on Blu-ray. Phillips also is actively involved. BDA is still trying to decide whether to do the decoding in the player or in the TV. It is most definitely coming, I would say Fall 2010.

Link: EETimes.com - Group peers into 3-D future for Blu-Ray

[Astrakan]

Ruined, do you know what the difference is between the BDP-HD50K and the BDP-51FD? On Pioneer's website, the SRP for the 51FD is $200 higher, but there's the same price (CAD $600) at a local store here in Toronto.

Should I perhaps snap up the 50K at that price?

Pioneer of Canada - English - Pioneer Blu-ray Disc Players 51FD
Pioneer of Canada - English - Pioneer Blu-ray Disc Players HD50-K

KM

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

Ruined, do you know what the difference is between the BDP-HD50K and the BDP-51FD? On Pioneer's website, the SRP for the 51FD is $200 higher, but there's the same price (CAD $600) at a local store here in Toronto.

The BDP-51FD is a far superior player to the BDP-HD50K. The HD50K is last year's player and is not even in the same league.

In other words, spend the extra dough on the BDP-51FD if need be.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Great review except for price?

What does this puppy cost?

Sounds like a good machine and one (since I am a bit pro-Pio) for me to consider not to mention you oozing over it.

It goes for ~$550.

I recommend Value Electronics: Pioneer 08 Audio BD and Display products

They have it for $550 shipped + free HDMI cable. And you can get a 4yr extended warranty for an additional $35 if you wish.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The report that came out a couple of weeks ago stated that the studios are pushing for 3-D on Blu-ray.

They're pushing for it as another marketing gimmick. Studios pushing for it and consumers adopting it are two different things. A bunch of animated films in 3d, which is what we're really talking about here, isn't going to move the masses that much. The next Batman or Transformers film comes out in 3d, then maybe we can worry about it. Furthermore, they're talking 2011 before any of this is available in players. That's three years from now. So realistically, profile 2.0 is a good place to buy a player at. Technology will always change, but you get a 2.0 player now and you're probably good for a few years.

[Miggy]

I think the point is that people who are insisting on getting a profile 2.0 player just so that they can get the "final spec" should evaluate their purchase based upon their need and preference instead. I had that initial mindset when first looking at BluRay players, but then during my research I found out that I'm not really interested in BD-Live! all that much and concentrated instead on the quality of the player. That led me to getting the 51FD and I'm very happy with it.

If someone really wants BD-live!, then I don't think anyone's saying not to get a profile 2.0 player - just evaluate your reasons for doing it.

Miggy, the Thief

[plissken99]

This player is tempting, but the lack of 2.0 is depressing even if I currently have no need for it, i'd feel more comfortable having it. The color upcon sounds very very cool though, so i may look into this early next year, or perhaps it's 2.0 successor will be on the horizon.

[Derb]

I finally checked out BD-Live with the Persepolis (2007) title on the PS3 & I honestly don't care for it. I didn't even bother to download anything or create a profile... sorry Sony.

Nice review Ruined.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Derb

I finally checked out BD-Live with the Persepolis (2007) title on the PS3 & I honestly don't care for it. I didn't even bother to download anything or create a profile... sorry Sony.

Nice review Ruined.

Yeah, I tried BD-Live on my HTPC setup and it is a joke. It is incredibly slow to download stuff compared to traditional internet, and the features blow ass. Maybe it will be good in a few years, but for now it is not worth sacrificing any a/v quality in the slightest.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by plissken99

This player is tempting, but the lack of 2.0 is depressing even if I currently have no need for it, i'd feel more comfortable having it. The color upcon sounds very very cool though, so i may look into this early next year, or perhaps it's 2.0 successor will be on the horizon.

The profile 2.0 version has already been announced:
Pioneer’s Elite BDP-09FD Player, Sweet High-End Blu-Ray Action » The UberReview

It adds a few other things too like a QDEO video processor, and it is $2200

Like I said before, though, 2.0 is not the final profile anyway. While there is not a ton of content, 3-D content is steadily growing and a full color 3-D profile will be added to Blu-ray sooner rather than later; BDA wants to add it as quickly as possible to avoid another format war. The BDA says so themselves here. You don't want to have 3D DVD or 3D SDHC upstaging Blu-ray with what will be Blu-ray's outdated 2D-only technology, after all.

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Disc Association

Theoretically, the Blu-Ray group could take one of two broad approaches to stereo 3-D, said Parsons. It could decide to just pass through to HDMI ports any 3-D data on a disk letting the TV render it, or it could render the 3-D information locally which would require a significant addition to the Blu-Ray specification.

If the group opts for the later approach it will need to define a standard format. In either case, the group wants to make sure any 3-D approach is compatible with its existing specification for 2-D content, Parsons said.

Many see Blu-Ray as the likely first vehicle to deliver stereo 3-D movies to the home. That's because the separate images for right and left eyes in stereo 3-D typically require significantly more bandwidth than 2-D images, creating trouble for broadcast delivery.

"The first real stereo 3-D for the home will be via Blu-Ray and for that you need a standard format," said a senior executive at one large consumer electronics company who asked not to be named.

"If everything goes perfectly this could happen in 2010 or 2011, but it never goes like that," the executive added. "Hopefully there will not be a format war."

Pretty clear if you read between the lines that "profile 2.0" is a mere stopgap to the final Blu-ray profile which will include 3-D stereoscopic video... Given the sorry state of affairs for profile 2.0 features, you arent losing much. The A/V quality & features in the BDP-51FD dwarf the usefulness of profile 2.0 features.

[Ruined]

BTW, discs that "feature" BD+ copy protection have load times increased by ~20-25 seconds due to the time taken to compile and execute the BD+ DRM engine. Good thing the pirates were shown who was boss with this long-ago cracked DRM.

[Ruined]

This player is impressing me more and more as time goes on. It appears that Pioneer deliberately set the master LPCM volume a bit lower than what the PS3 outputs & lower than what the Onkyos decode bitstream to by default. As a result, it seems the dynamic range of the 51FD is greater, and on top of that it seems to better match reference volume level @ 0db with my integra dtc-9.8.

I am really glad Pioneer decided to offer a more down to earth model of this player for $599. If only the $799 05FD elite were available I probably never would have looked at it, but this 51FD retains everything of importance from that model aside from lower quality component video DAC, but I use digital HDMI so I don't care about that anyway. It would be nice to see them make a pre/pro that competes with the Onkyo/Integras (within 30% of price & similar featureset).

[chlngr1970]

I would LOVE to have a Pioneer Elite Pre/Pro, at almost any price...well, maybe more in line with the Integra

j

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Ruined

BTW, discs that "feature" BD+ copy protection have load times increased by ~20-25 seconds due to the time taken to compile and execute the BD+ DRM engine. Good thing the pirates were shown who was boss with this long-ago cracked DRM.

So it's total time with BD+ is around 45 seconds from power on to menu?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

So it's total time with BD+ is around 45 seconds from power on to menu?

Power on is ~20 seconds to idle/tray eject.

From tray being open to first screen of the Blu-ray Disc:
A regular disc (i.e. most Warner, Sony, Paramount) takes ~30-35 seconds to load.
A disc with heavy BD-J (i.e. most Disney animation & Universal) takes ~40-45 seconds to load.
A regular disc with BD+ copy protection (i.e. most Fox) takes ~50-55 seconds to load.
A disc with both BD+ copy protection (i.e. some Fox) and heavy BD-J takes ~65-70 seconds to load.

The thing that could most be optimized in the process that I can see is the disc detection routing; about 15-20seconds of those above loadtimes is spent detecting the disc - if they could speed up disc detection, they could cut loadtimes in half. Right now the priority is probably DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, though. Loading time is not this player's forte, though it does have fast power on compared to other players. Where it specializes is in superb A/V quality, most important in my book.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Ruined

A disc with both BD+ copy protection (i.e. some Fox) and heavy BD-J takes ~65-70 seconds to load.

Thats not too bad considering other Pro 1.0 players usually take up to 3 minutes.

[plissken99]

Are there any screenshots of the color upconversion, vs normal mode? I have a buyer for my PS3 when I'm ready to upgrade.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Are there any screenshots of the color upconversion, vs normal mode? I have a buyer for my PS3 when I'm ready to upgrade.

joerod posted a couple at AVSFORUM taken with his camera in the 51FD/05FD thread, but there are no direct captures. The difference is noticable, but not extreme. Thus far everyone who has tried both color upconversion on/off think that the picture looks better and more natural with it turned on.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Derb

Thats not too bad considering other Pro 1.0 players usually take up to 3 minutes.

I've never had the BDP-S1 take 3 minutes. I think the max I've seen on any disc is about a minute and a half.

[plissken99]

Would that be this post on AVS? AVS Forum - View Single Post - Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Thread [new FW]

If thats undoctored it's uncanny, the second pic looks amazingly better, like the player does a color correction almost!

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dugpa

I've never had the BDP-S1 take 3 minutes. I think the max I've seen on any disc is about a minute and a half.

Than I guess you've never watched The Day After Tomorrow yet. Thats heavy BD+ & Java

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Derb

Than I guess you've never watched The Day After Tomorrow yet. Thats heavy BD+ & Java

Are you sure that's BD+ and Java and not just your player trying to reject playing the disc out of good taste?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by plissken99

Would that be this post on AVS? AVS Forum - View Single Post - Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Thread [new FW]

If thats undoctored it's uncanny, the second pic looks amazingly better, like the player does a color correction almost!

Yes, that's the one pliss The player is doing a sort of color correction. It is attempting to upconvert the 8bit Blu-ray downconversion back to the original 12bit studio master quality. And yes, its undoctored.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Are you sure that's BD+ and Java and not just your player trying to reject playing the disc out of good taste?

Maybe, but the toy loads it up in 5-10 seconds so we know that player has no tastes.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Derb

Maybe, but the toy loads it up in 5-10 seconds so we know that player has no tastes.

The toy's color output is also inferior to the player reviewed in this thread, and likewise the dynamic range of the PCM output is not as broad. Its upscaling is worse as well, and it is not scaler-friendly.

Loadtimes are not everything, IMO A/V quality remains the most important thing - thus I'd easily recommend the 51FD/05FD over the PS3.

[Miggy]

Ruined,

I turned on HDMI High-speed from the onset and have had it on since. Nothing abnormal in the picture. So I guess I'm clear to use it.

Also, is it worth getting the BD version of Video Essentials? I'm still using the one I got with my first DVD player I purchased in '97.

Miggy, the Thief

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by Miggy

Also, is it worth getting the BD version of Video Essentials? I'm still using the one I got with my first DVD player I purchased in '97.

Miggy, the Thief

I have the HD DVD verson, and it is well worth the upgrade over the DVD, IMHO.

j

[Miggy]

Does it contain a better test for contrast setting other than if the line doesn't bend or if the box doesn't bloom? On my set (as I suspect any new set), neither ever happens even with the contrast turned all the way up. So I can't be sure of an exact setting as I am with picture or with color/tint. I'm using a contrast setting that I found on the AVS forum, a setting that most there seem to agree with.

Miggy, the Thief

[Ruined]

On most LCD sets it is fine to turn the contrast to maximum.

DVE Blu-ray is good to have if you want to tweak your set towards ISF standards. It has a lot of stuff that the DVD version and even HD DVD version did not have.

However, I think the most "fun" test discs to get are both the Silicon Optix HQV DVD & Blu-ray Discs. I believe they are sold for $30 for the pair as a package. Using these discs you can evaluate the quality of DVD upscaling and Blu-ray 1080i deinterlacing using your Blu-ray player, HDTV, receiver, whatever. So you'll be able to tell which device is giving you the best performance in upscaling & deinterlacing, very useful IMO.

re: HDMI high speed, if it works, leave it on

[berkowit28]

Do you have any advice on what would be an appropriate-level HDMI cable? I have seen some statements that high quality players like this one need an expensive HDMI cable (claiming even $60 cables are not good enough). True or false?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by berkowit28

Do you have any advice on what would be an appropriate-level HDMI cable? I have seen some statements that high quality players like this one need an expensive HDMI cable (claiming even $60 cables are not good enough). True or false?

You need to get an HDMI 1.3a Category 2 (High Speed) cable.

I like the Blue Jeans Cable BJC Belden Series F2 for under 15 feet:
HDMI Cables from Blue Jeans Cable

If you have a run over 15 feet the Series 1 is nice too, but it is much thicker and a bit rougher on your equipment's ports.

[berkowit28]

Thanks, Ruined. Looks good, especially since I don't need more than 3 feet or so. Any particular reason why you favor this brand?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by berkowit28

Thanks, Ruined. Looks good, especially since I don't need more than 3 feet or so. Any particular reason why you favor this brand?

I've tried a bunch and they make the best product. Nice fit in HDMI socket, lightweight cable, good build quality, excellent picture quality, meets specs necessary, reasonable price.

[Ruined]

Word is we may see new firmware today or early next week...