DVDTalk: Terminator 2 HD DVD beats T2 Blu-Ray

[Ruined]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10681854

Originally Posted by DVDTalk Staff Reviewer

I watched the full Extended Cut last night and did a quick comparison to the Blu-ray. The HD DVD is decidedly sharper and has more saturated colors. It's not perfect, unfortunately. It has some of the same problems as the BD, including a touch of edge ringing, some white clipping, and minor compression problems here and there. It looks good overall. I'll try to crank out a full review soon.

The French 2-disc HD DVD set (Theatrical + Extended Edition) is currently available from amazon.fr and xploitedcinema.com if you want it NOW.

A slightly more English-friendly UK single disc Extended Edition-only HD DVD will be available for preorder within a month or so from http://amazon.co.uk

Note that only the Extended Edition disc from the French version is English-friendly, as the theatrical version has forced French subtitles when selecting the English soundtrack (you can resize them and move them into the LBX bar however). The Extended edition does not have forced subtitles and in fact the entire menu is in English, it was clearly the same disc that will be in the UK version released later.

The UK version will be identical to disc 2 of the French version - Extended cut, English audio, no forced subs, region free, 1080p24 w/ lossless DTS-HD Master Audio. English Audio tracks have been compared to the R1 DVD release and the audio is perfect, no speedup.

I am waiting for the region-free UK version since I want the English cover art and the Extended Cut is better anyway IMO. Plus, the theatrical disc of the French version is pretty worthless to me with the forced subs (even if tiny). I'll of course post when the AMAZON.CO.UK preorder for T2: Extended Edition is available

[Shawn Watson]

Will get this definitely.

Shawn

[plissken99]

Hell yeah! Didn't know it had the directors cut! Now I'll have em all in HD!

[Sehnzeleid]

Watching the director's cut disc now.

It looks and sounds fantastic. It's hard to imagine the film looking any better in HD, honestly. Colors are well saturated throughout (except for a few shots that have always suffered a little, like when big T flies off the barrier on his hog into the canal in slo-mo) and the only real "problem" I could see is that the source has a few fleeting and tiny white specks here-and-there. Also in the T-1000 morph shots (like John's foster mom's blade hand) you can see slight, subtle flickering in the image from when the CG was rendered. The transfer is quite consistent, but the later half beginning when the crew goes to Cyberdyne really shows off the quality of the transfer, the blacks, reflections, beaming lights look awesome.

The aspect ratio appears a little more open on the top and bottom and there is no unintended side cropping. It also has absolutely no audio pitch issues. I've seen the film more times than I can count, and it sounds (pitch-wise) exactly like the DVDs and the LDs I've heard. The downconverted DTS-HD MA 5.1 sounds stellar as well, with a lot of loud and clear rear activity. I haven't heard the UE DVD's DTS-ES Matrix track in a while, but the track on this edition surely beat the Dolby EX on the Extreme Edition.

No extras (except for a SC promo trailer & A/V adjustments), 12 chapter stops on both discs. The discs have a "pre-film" animated menu (complete with a great sounding T2 main theme) that lets you flip through the SCENE and BONUS menus. The HD DVD case is like MI:3's case, with both discs facing each other. It is the "old" HD DVD style case, no "squarish" angles or spine snapper.

The HD DVD loaded up and seems to be handling itself without a hitch on my HD-A1 with 2.1 firmware.

Good stuff all around!

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

It looks and sounds fantastic. It's hard to imagine the film looking any better in HD, honestly.

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

The HD DVD case is like MI:3's case, with both discs facing each other. It is the "old" HD DVD style case, no "squarish" angles or spine snapper.

The HD DVD loaded up and seems to be handling itself without a hitch on my HD-A1 with 2.1 firmware.

Good stuff all around!

In your first quote, did you mean Blu-Ray? If not, you're already watching the HD version of the movie, right?

Peace...

[Sehnzeleid]

I'm talking all about the HD DVD.

["The Dude"]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Watching the director's cut disc now.

It looks and sounds fantastic. It's hard to imagine the film looking any better in HD, honestly. Colors are well saturated throughout (except for a few shots that have always suffered a little, like when big T flies off the barrier on his hog into the canal in slo-mo) and the only real "problem" I could see is that the source has a few fleeting and tiny white specks here-and-there. Also in the T-1000 morph shots (like John's foster mom's blade hand) you can see slight, subtle flickering in the image from when the CG was rendered. The transfer is quite consistent, but the later half beginning when the crew goes to Cyberdyne really shows off the quality of the transfer, the blacks, reflections, beaming lights look awesome.

The aspect ratio appears a little more open on the top and bottom and there is no unintended side cropping. It also has absolutely no audio pitch issues. I've seen the film more times than I can count, and it sounds (pitch-wise) exactly like the DVDs and the LDs I've heard. The downconverted DTS-HD MA 5.1 sounds stellar as well, with a lot of loud and clear rear activity. I haven't heard the UE DVD's DTS-ES Matrix track in a while, but the track on this edition surely beat the Dolby EX on the Extreme Edition.

No extras (except for a SC promo trailer & A/V adjustments), 12 chapter stops on both discs. The discs have a "pre-film" animated menu (complete with a great sounding T2 main theme) that lets you flip through the SCENE and BONUS menus. The HD DVD case is like MI:3's case, with both discs facing each other. It is the "old" HD DVD style case, no "squarish" angles or spine snapper.

The HD DVD loaded up and seems to be handling itself without a hitch on my HD-A1 with 2.1 firmware.

Good stuff all around!

So how much is this? I had the BD version and quickly dumped it because of quality.

Also, this might be a dumb question, but since it's a foreign disc, would I have to watch it with english subtitles? I'm asking because I've never owned a U.S. film from another region so I don't know how the language tracks work.

[plissken99]

Originally Posted by The Dude

So how much is this? I had the BD version and quickly dumped it because of quality.

Also, this might be a dumb question, but since it's a foreign disc, would I have to watch it with english subtitles? I'm asking because I've never owned a U.S. film from another region so I don't know how the language tracks work.

If your watching the directors cut, subtitles are optional. The theatrical version forces French subs.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Also, this might be a dumb question, but since it's a foreign disc, would I have to watch it with english subtitles? I'm asking because I've never owned a U.S. film from another region so I don't know how the language tracks work.

Read the first post :P

French version = 2 discs
Disc 1 = Theatrical version, forced French subtitles
Disc 2 = Extended version, no forced subs

UK version = 1 disc (up for preorder in a month), no forced subs

[Ruined]

More!

Originally Posted by Robert George/Obi @ Hometheaterforum.com

Okay, here's my comments on the new Studio Canal HD DVD edition of Terminator 2...

The background is this. Lionsgate has US distribution for this film. T2 was a fairly early Blu-ray release for them. Lionsgate's BD is a BD25 with MPEG-2 encoding. For whatever reason, Lionsgate has elected to release only the 137 min. theatrical version of the film in the US. Studio Canal, a French company, was one of the co-production companies of the film, and holds international distribution rights.

Studio Canal also supports the HD DVD format. For the French HD DVD release, Studio Canal has released T2 as a 2-disc set using the VC-1 codec. Disc 1 is the theatrical version of the film intended solely for the French market which means the disc has been authored with French subtitles that cannot be turned off if English language audio is selected. That's Studio Canal's policy for France-only releases. The second disc is the 152 min. "Director's Cut" version of the film that was previously released on the "Ultimate Edition" DVD in the US. Note this is not the 156 min. "extended" version also available on the "Ultimate Edition" DVD which has the tacked on Coda ending with an aged Sarah Connor in a park with a voiceover. This is what I consider the best version of the film as it includes several scenes and extensions of scenes that I find enhances the story yet it leaves off the "Coda" ending which becomes illogical with the release of Terminator 3.

It is this Director's Cut disc that is of interest so me, and I expect, quite a few other fans of the film. While the theatrical version has the "forced" subtitles, the Director's Cut disc will be released by Studio Canal in the UK. Because of this, there are no forced subtitles, and indeed, the default playback of the disc is English audio (the only track available) with no subtitles. This disc also contains what is to my eye, the finest video presentation of this film to date.

Having been a fan of this film since its original theatrical run in 1991, I have seen what I believe to be every video release except VHS. This of course includes the several laserdisc and DVD incarnations. I even had the D-Theater hi-def digital VHS edition of this film. It is this background that I base my observations of this new HD DVD edition on. Compared to all that came before, this new HD DVD edition is clearly the finest presentation of Terminator 2 to date (no pun intended).

The most immediate comparison is to Lionsgate's Blu-ray edition, as well as the theatrical version included in the HD DVD set. beginning with the theatrical edition, it appears that the HD DVD and Blu-ray came from the same master, a master that looks to have ben "pushed" to increase the visible contrast. This leads to blown out whites and some crushing of detail in blacks, as well as what some would describe as "edge enhancement". Colors are a bit overstaurated compared to the Director's Cut disc.

Although both these discs appear to be sourced from the same master, the MPEG-2 and VC-1 encodes show some fairly noticeable differences. The MPEG encode on Blu-ray is visibly softer with a bit less fine detail. There is also visible blocking where film grain is present. The VC-1 encode is both smoother and sharper with greater detail and less artifacting associated with the film grain. Even so, the master that was struck for the Director's Cut is quite obviously superior to the master used for the theatrical version.

The transfer for the Director's Cut has a more natural appearance with greater detail in both very dark and very bright areas and a more even color balance. The image is also a bit sharper than even the VC-1 encode of the theatrical version. This encoding also preserves the grain structure of the film element without overt compression artifacts.

With the somewhat limited time I have had to compare these discs I cannot comment on a comparison of audio tracks except to say I found the DTS-HD audio track on the Director's Cut version to convey all the impact and subtlety that I remember from any other version with, perhaps, a bit more authority in the lower octave and a bit more smoothness in the upper frequencies. Certainly nothing lacking in the sound department.

Rarely do the planets line up perfectly in the universe, but for fans of the Director's Cut version of Terminator 2, it seems we have a gift in the form of this French HD DVD release. Combine what I consider the best version of the film with a HD DVD authored without hindrances of any sort, and mastered and encoded as the finest visual quality this film has seen since release day 16 years ago, and you get a true treat for the film enthusiast. Although it feels more like an accident that everything worked out as it has for this disc, it is a very happy accident indeed.

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by The Dude

So how much is this?

It came out to be $38 shipped from Xploited Cinema.

[plissken99]

Is that to mean this is an entirely new cut? Or is he saying it's not the extended extended version that was an Easter Egg on the Ultimate Edition? I assume he means the ladder.

[Sehnzeleid]

It's the 152 minute director's cut, not the 156 minute special edition.

[Ruined]

I am really tempted to buy this now but I really want the english cover art from the upcoming UK HD DVD Director's Cut release... grr!

[dkny75]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I am really tempted to buy this now but I really want the english cover art from the upcoming UK HD DVD Director's Cut release... grr!

That's what custom cover art is for Ruined.

[Ruined]

Details on UK version:

It will include the director's cut disc from the French release, exactly the same with no region encoding, no forced subs, VC-1, DTS-HDMA. English cover art. Release date is 8/13/07.

Sendit.com is the only site that has it up for preorder currently AFAIK:
http://sendit.com/video/item/7001000137511

[Shawn Watson]

Just ordered it!

Ah Momentum...thank you for choosing HD!!!

Shawn

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Details on UK version:

It will include the director's cut disc from the French release, exactly the same with no region encoding, no forced subs, VC-1, DTS-HDMA. English cover art. Release date is 8/13/07.

Sendit.com is the only site that has it up for preorder currently AFAIK:
http://sendit.com/video/item/7001000137511

So how much? $38 like posted above?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

So how much? $38 like posted above?

From that sendit.com link, which is a reliable import site that seems to have good prices, its 17.49GBP, or about $35.50 shipped. Again, the link is:
http://sendit.com/video/item/7001000137511

[Shawn Watson]

Not very big. But that's what I've always been told.

Shawn

[Ruined]

My UK copy just shipped from sendit.com!

[Sehnzeleid]

Anyone notice there tends be noticeable echo in surround activity (in terms of the score) on the HD DVD DTS-HD MA track? Never noticed this on the DVD editions...

Also I like how the French subs, though forced, on the Theatrical version gently fade in and out. It's a lot less distracting then traditional "pop-up" subs IMO.

[Ruined]

Got mine today... Haven't checked out the surround channels in depth, though a number of individuals & reviewers went over this release pretty thoroughly and didn't report any issues.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Got mine today...

Post your opinion please since I'm fencing on waiting for a box set I hope comes soon or, going with this.

[MJZ]

So the UK release is one disc and the Director's Cut, so what about special features?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Post your opinion please since I'm fencing on waiting for a box set I hope comes soon or, going with this.

Considering Terminator 1 is MGM, Terminator 2 is Lionsgate, and Terminator 3 is Warner, there is no way in hell you are seeing a box set anytime soon.

This release is fantastic A/V quality, though no extras. I'd go for it ASAP because its T2.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Considering Terminator 1 is MGM, Terminator 2 is Lionsgate, and Terminator 3 is Warner, there is no way in hell you are seeing a box set anytime soon.

Well that pretty much settles it!