High Def - you jumped the gun.

[Iguana Man]

Yep, I just realized that HD in general and with their players more specifcally have jumped the damn gun and this is why it's a slow adopting format.

How many times do you have to update your player? Bahhh I say. Screw it! Stuff should frigging work without the need to hook up and go online!

Screw this crap!

I'm waiting. Waiting a long time.

This is Sunday with work only 12 hours away so post accordingly.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

How many times do you have to update your player? Bahhh I say. Screw it! Stuff should frigging work without the need to hook up and go online!

Screw this crap!

I'm waiting. Waiting a long time.

This is Sunday with work only 12 hours away so post accordingly.

May be a pain, but HD DVD needing firmware upgrades for the new features is better than Blu-Ray where you have to buy a new player for the new features, right?

P.S. - You can use this simple method to BURN A FIRMWARE UPGRADE CD for your XBOX 360 instead of hooking up online stuff:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...nload.htm#disc

P.S. -- Was this a knee jerk reaction to this?

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Ruined

May be a pain, but HD DVD needing firmware upgrades for the new features is better than Blu-Ray where you have to buy a new player for the new features, right?

P.S. - You can use this simple method to BURN A FIRMWARE UPGRADE CD for your XBOX 360 instead of hooking up online stuff:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...nload.htm#disc

P.S. -- Was this a knee jerk reaction to this?

I'm talking HD in general Ruined. Seems to me the players on both sides get updates. Phuck that.

This is bullshit on both fronts in my opinion.

(Last question: No)

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I'm talking HD in general Ruined. Seems to me the players on both sides get updates. Phuck that.

This is bullshit on both fronts in my opinion.

(Last question: No)

Well, if you get a Toshiba standalone you can signup for them to send you a free firmware update CD via mail (takes about a month). It is a bit of a pain but the firmware updates have allowed for things much cooler and more complex than DVD so I welcome them.

[ganthc]

You can still enjoy most of the aspects of high def with an unupgraded player. The upgrades fix problems or provide additional features. Hey, if you don't want to be in high def movie collecting mode, just sell your hd-a0 and be done with it. I think most people on this forum are happy with their purchases.

[jriseden]

I agree that the constant updates are annoying, but it's a good thing that the updates are available to fix problems that may arise after a player's initial release.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by ganthc

I think most people on this forum are happy with their purchases.

I'm not questioning that dude. It just seems to me that none of this crap had to take place before.....I don't remember having to go online to update a Gad Damn $1,200 player after I purchased it.

Now it's like a normal thing...which to me SUCKS.

[Vonner]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I'm not questioning that dude. It just seems to me that none of this crap had to take place before.....I don't remember having to go online to update a Gad Damn $1,200 player after I purchased it.

Now it's like a normal thing...which to me SUCKS.

It's the future, be prepared.

[ganthc]

Yeah, it's not surprise. Your computer needs updates all the time, and it costs that much. Your ipod needs constant updates, etc, etc, etc. Things nowadays have updates. Get used to it.

[Taxi]

Why should we have to get used to it?

Upgrades mean that they were too lazy to properly test it in the first place. (I know. I test software for a living. The suits make the release decisions based on $$, not on quality.)

That fact that people are "getting used to it" is what makes the problem worse, IMHO.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Why should we have to get used to it?

Upgrades mean that they were too lazy to properly test it in the first place. (I know. I test software for a living. The suits make the release decisions based on $$, not on quality.)

That fact that people are "getting used to it" is what makes the problem worse, IMHO.

I test software for a living as well. Which is why I guess I'm saying that it's just something to get used to. The release cycles for software don't allow for an all or nothing approach, especially when there is a need for feature enhancements. You might say that those features should have been added from the get-go, but that's to say that you take the hit on potential revenue. Should ipods not be out right now? Should there be no blu-ray or hd-dvd because people don't want it till there are no more updates?

It's completely unrealistic, and would make innovations be stymied. I don't see the harm in updates. This isn't a toaster we're dealing with, or a refrigerator. These are devices that need upgrades...so yeah, it helps that we just get used to the need to update our devices.

[Derb]

Think its time for Iguana to join the Blu-Force.

I agree with him, updates suck.

Yeah, both have 'em so I won't say one format is better than the other in this aspect but...

..for me to connect to the internet (HD DVD) & get an update, this is what I got to do,

1. Unhook the shit
2. Haul the player up 2 flights of stairs
3. Lift my 75 pound CRT out of my bedroom & place it in the computer room.
4. Hook it all up & wait (30 minutes)
5. Put everything back the way it was.

The problem I have most with firmware updates, is they address problems after consumers have already purchased the software. Duh, There needs to be a crack or heroin team testing every disc before it is mass replicated.

Don't let HD get ya down Iguana, there are not enough "good" titles out now anyways.

[cadmium red]

Originally Posted by Derb

The problem I have most with firmware updates, is they address problems after consumers have already purchased the software. Duh, There needs to be a crack or heroin team testing every disc before it is mass replicated.

i think you've identified part of the issue.....

why pay people to test your machines and disks and keep your product out of the market that much longer, when you have people who are willing to subsidize your large corporation by paying to be an early adopter (beta tester)

by the time the HD and Blu machines are cost effective (under $200 dollars) for widespread adoption, most of these problems will have been ironed out.

I'm from the "i just want to buy it,plug it in, and have it work 99.9% of the time with no hassles" school of purchasing.

I think they are all taking a cue from Microsoft...realease a product thats 75-80% finished (good enough to sell and start earning back the R&D money) and let the consumer help out with the de-bugs.

thats the cynical side of me...

the other side just says, as technology gets more complicated and the codes get deeper its just not humanly possible to test everything outside of the lab and the only way to ID problems is real world testing.

i think its somewhere inbetwen those two extremes.

[cadmium red]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Yeah, it's not surprise. Your computer needs updates all the time, and it costs that much. Your ipod needs constant updates, etc, etc, etc. Things nowadays have updates. Get used to it.

computers are designed to have hundreds or thousands of different functions. i.e. different pieces of software etc. computers and operating systems are designed to network with each other, interact with other machines and operating systems etc etc. Basically they have alot more variables, so the occasional update isn't that bad. (p.s. i'm a mac user so we dont have that many anyhow)

DVD players and component A/V equipment are made for ONE FUNCTION only and thats to play back one particular format of disc. (yes they can play formats but thats a secondary function i think) I mean seriously its designed to sit there and do one thing. they should get it right before its realeased, or make sure all people who produce content are doing it within parameters.

you'd think it would be simple. they define the parameters of the format. they make machines that work within the parameters. they press discs that work within the parameters. eveything works fine. i guess thats too idealistic.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by cadmium red

computers are designed to have hundreds or thousands of different functions. i.e. different pieces of software etc. computers and operating systems are designed to network with each other, interact with other machines and operating systems etc etc. Basically they have alot more variables, so the occasional update isn't that bad. (p.s. i'm a mac user so we dont have that many anyhow)

DVD players and component A/V equipment are made for ONE FUNCTION only and thats to play back one particular format of disc. (yes they can play formats but thats a secondary function i think) I mean seriously its designed to sit there and do one thing. they should get it right before its realeased, or make sure all people who produce content are doing it within parameters.

you'd think it would be simple. they define the parameters of the format. they make machines that work within the parameters. they press discs that work within the parameters. eveything works fine. i guess thats too idealistic.

The question is do you hold up production on all units till every single thing is fixed? If your options were taken, we would not have hd-dvd players till May of this year, or blu-ray players at all. I think it's just unrealistic to expect companies that put out a major dollar investment on new technology to not get a return on investment until every little thing is handled. I'm sure that there were decisions made to ship without certain functionality being available, but with the knowledge that they can be patched later. For the most part, the updates have merely enhanced the players (at least on the bd side), and have not affected playback of the movies. Yes, there were glitches on hd-dvd players, but somethings can't be foreseen in every case, regarding the media played on the players or the players response to that.

I know I have enjoyed hd on disc since January. Others have enjoyed it since last summer. Why the need to hold up people's enjoyment just because of a few bugs?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Derb

..for me to connect to the internet (HD DVD) & get an update, this is what I got to do

1. Buy a wireless ethernet bridge for my HD DVD player

or,

1. Burn an ISO file from Toshiba.CA / XBOX.COM to CD-R

Fixed.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Yep, I just realized that HD in general and with their players more specifcally have jumped the damn gun and this is why it's a slow adopting format.

Iggy, I suggest you go back to threads from last year when we discussed the "early adopter" stuff. There is a reason we have "early adopters".

What you describe isn't limited just to high-def players but to ANY new technology that comes out. It simply takes time for the technology to stabilize and mature. Do a search in this forum for "mature" and you'll find many past threads where I state this concept.

As for not having to go online to update a $1200 player you bought, Denon released many firmware updates to their $1200+ players via CDs you could purchase and some posted ISOs that could be downloaded and burned to CD to "flash" (update) the firmware. The ability for the player to do it directly over the Internet is for convenience and to possibly allow the player to keep itself up to date by itself since a lot simply won't run the updates manually or think to do so. You won't believe how many people DO NOT run Windows updates these days.

Your frustrations are understandable but they basically tell me the technology isn't mature enough for you, yet, but you'll also have to keep in mind some of this will simply be part of owning these kinds of components.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Why should we have to get used to it?

Upgrades mean that they were too lazy to properly test it in the first place. (I know. I test software for a living. The suits make the release decisions based on $$, not on quality.)

Wow, I'm really surprised to read this from a software tester. Of course, I disagree with this but that's a topic for another discussion. I would be more than happy to get "into it" here but I think it would derail the thread too much. Let me know if you want to address this here or not.

That fact that people are "getting used to it" is what makes the problem worse, IMHO.

I agree with this but from a different perspective.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by ganthc

It's completely unrealistic, and would make innovations be stymied. I don't see the harm in updates. This isn't a toaster we're dealing with, or a refrigerator. These are devices that need upgrades...so yeah, it helps that we just get used to the need to update our devices.

Peace...

[Pirate]

I'm also getting tired of remote controls. It’s the year 2007! I should be able to open the disc tray simply by rubbing my temple.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by cadmium red

why pay people to test your machines and disks

They do.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by cadmium red

you'd think it would be simple. they define the parameters of the format. they make machines that work within the parameters. they press discs that work within the parameters. eveything works fine. i guess thats too idealistic.

I think this kind of thinking is part of the problem. Outsiders, like most of us are, think this kind of stuff would be "simple" yet we really don't know how little we really understand about ALL of this technology since if we really did understand more we wouldn't be thinking this would be "simple" in the first place.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I'm also getting tired of remote controls. It’s the year 2007! I should be able to open the disc tray simply by rubbing my temple.

The Force is simply too weak with you. I can rub my

Spoiler (Highlight or Triple Click to Read):

Ha! Got you bitches!!!!!

and the disc tray on my DVD player opens instantly.

Peace...

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

and the disc tray on my DVD player opens instantly.

As does mine. Fishing wire.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

As does mine. Fishing wire.

Peace...

[cadmium red]

Originally Posted by ganthc

The question is do you hold up production on all units till every single thing is fixed? If your options were taken, we would not have hd-dvd players till May of this year, or blu-ray players at all. I think it's just unrealistic to expect companies that put out a major dollar investment on new technology to not get a return on investment until every little thing is handled. I'm sure that there were decisions made to ship without certain functionality being available, but with the knowledge that they can be patched later. For the most part, the updates have merely enhanced the players (at least on the bd side), and have not affected playback of the movies. Yes, there were glitches on hd-dvd players, but somethings can't be foreseen in every case, regarding the media played on the players or the players response to that.

I know I have enjoyed hd on disc since January. Others have enjoyed it since last summer. Why the need to hold up people's enjoyment just because of a few bugs?

then i guess it comes down to how much the consumer is allowed to expect from new technology. I guess by being an early adopter you have to expect that the technology isn't perfect yet, and that you will have problems with discs and hardware. Yeah you get a sneak peak at the future but you have to deal with the growing pains.

you can either pay a premium to jump on the wagon early and deal with the problems, or sit it out for a while and wait a few generations till the stuff works like its supposed to.