Dan Ramer/DVDFile article: Huh?

[Ruined]

http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?opt...k=view&id=6141

Originally Posted by Dan Ramer

And for those suitably equipped, the superior quality of BD will also have an effect. Remember: more space and higher bit rate = lower compression = higher quality.

As I review more and more HD discs, I think I’ve accumulated a sufficiently large sample of data points from both formats. It’s very clear to me that BD provides a better viewing experience than HD DVD. The image quality is simply better, sharper, and more film-like. (This is not apparent when studios use the same transfer for both formats.) Audio tends to be a non-issue since both formats support lossless advanced audio CODECs (although the uncompressed PCM tracks on Sony and Buena Vista BDs are truly impressive). So from a selfish craving for the highest possible quality, I must admit that I hope Blu-ray Disc triumphs.

If anything, I think review after review shows that the opposite is true: there is no visible improvement gained from BD's extra space due to the efficiency of next gen codecs. There is a diminishing return on nextgen codecs and HD DVD has more than enough space for a pristine VC-1/AVC encode. Numerous Paramount releases offering high bitrate encodes on Blu-Ray that look no better than the lower bitrate encodes on HD DVD, and the same goes for the NIN concert which had higher bitrate on Blu-Ray. The most important thing for the next gen formats is the master at this point, as the compression/bandwidth/size/encoding has pretty much been perfected.

So I ask Dan Ramer: what are you talking about? The real world evidence is clearly against your conclusion. I think the reason you believe you see a difference is because Blu-Ray has a larger amount of new special effects movies which would have cleaner masters than older titles.

Examples:

Norbit AVC encode on HD30 vs. higher bitrate AVC encode on BD50
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/norbit.html
Same video rating for HD DVD and Blu-Ray version!

Flags of Our Fathers VC-1 encode on HD30 vs. higher bitrate AVC encode on BD50:

Originally Posted by HidefDigest on HD DVD version

5/5 Video
5/5 Audio

As has become customary with Paramount releases, 'Flags of our Fathers' comes with different encodes depending on which next-gen format you prefer. In a side by side comparison of the film between the VC-1 transfer on this HD DVD version and the AVC MPEG-4 transfer on the Blu-ray, it does seem that the Blu-ray/AVC encode is the tiniest bit sharper, while the HD DVD/VC-1 is the slightest bit softer. Neither is an advantage to my eyes, and each encode is identical otherwise -- fans of both camps should be ecstatic to see this film looking so good.

This HD DVD edition of 'Flags of Our Fathers' narrowly trumps the audio presentation on the Blu-ray edition by upgrading from a standard mix to a Dolby Digital 5.1-Plus track (1.5 Mbps). The Plus-mix feels richer -- especially when explosions are raging from all angles. The bass tones are a bit more resonant on the HD DVD, while they're a bit more throaty on the Blu-ray. Otherwise, both tracks sound nearly the same.

Nine Inch Nails: Beside you In Time VC-1 encode on HD30 vs. higher bitrate VC-1 encode on BD50:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/ninei...youintime.html

Originally Posted by HiDefDigest on HD DVD version

5/5 Video
5/5 Audio

Both of the next-gen releases receive identical 1.78:1 widescreen 1080p/VC-1-encoded transfers. [Ed.: this is an error, the HD DVD version is a lower bitrate 1080p30 encode while the BD version is higher bitrate 1080i60 encode] The result on this HD DVD edition is fantastic. Judging any live performance that originated in HD requires a different set of evaluations than film-based material. Video tends to have a much clearer, "you are there" sheen -- almost like looking out of a picture window, and 'Beside You in Time' is certainly no exception. Shot entirely with high-def cameras, simply put, this is the best-looking concert video I've ever seen. Granted, the majority of music HD programming I've enjoyed this far has been via over-the-air and cable broadcasts, such as the concerts found on the HDNet and Rave all-HD networks where it is usually laced with compression artifacts, or upconverted from 720p. But 'Beside You in Time' is the perfect example of the superiority of pre-recorded formats like HD DVD -- the image is incredibly detailed, life-like, three-dimensional and free from obnoxious macroblocking.

The Prestige VC-1 HD30 vs. higher bitrate AVC BD50:
http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/theprest...-vs-hd/01.html
No significant difference.

Also, I don't have the link at the moment, but when professional broadcasters were blind testing AVC bitrates, it was found that after 16mbps or so they could no longer tell the difference between the master and the encode.

[Shawn Watson]

Then the guy is an asshole.

Or Sony has the antidote to the poison he just drank.

Shawn

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?opt...k=view&id=6141


I think the reason you believe you see a difference is because Blu-Ray has a larger amount of new special effects movies which would have cleaner masters than older titles.

This is probably right. Moreso than the statement that he is an asshole or poisoned by Sony.

The article as a whole was very informative. I hadn't heard about Amazon and MS bringing hd-dvd compressed to the web. Just because his opinion (and you can include the Sony lackeys at US News & World Report) matches others on the war, doesn't mean he's evil. However, I think he has chosen sides at this point.

[dugpa]

He's not an asshole or a plant, just ignorant. The quality of dvdfile's staff went way down when they lost a bunch of people when Bracke left. I believe that's the same guy who still insists both his Toshiba and Sony players have defective LFE channel levels instead of the problem being his receiver not boosting the levels properly. The guy never does any research into anything before he speaks. Honestly, these days the dvdfile forum has better reporting and more up to date news than what passes for it's main site.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Shawn Watson

Then the guy is an asshole.

Or Sony has the antidote to the poison he just drank.

Could you stop the attacks please?

If you disagree, then fine, disagree, but be civil about it.

[Iguana Man]

That part Ruined bolded in from Dan? I'm a little confused. Is the 'same transfer' the master or something different?

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

That part Ruined bolded in from Dan? I'm a little confused. Is the 'same transfer' the master or something different?

That means that the same transer (i.e., same encoding method) was put on both the HD DVD and BD.

[CylonManWhore]

I've often wondered why any of the HD Format reviews from dvdfile are never mentioned in these forums. This explains it I guess. Must admit I don't get him half the time. And that whole LFE problem had me screaming at the monitor get a NEW receiver!

Later...

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by CylonManWhore

And that whole LFE problem had me screaming at the monitor get a NEW receiver!

Later...

According to tomdkat, he shouldn't have to.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

According to tomdkat, he shouldn't have to.

Then tomdkat should buy him one, because it is the receiver's fault! (My old parasound has the same problem)

[Derb]

I see they still havn't taken down the ANAMORPHIC WIDESCREEN banner on the right side of them reviews.

Come on guys, HD doesn't require anamorphic enhancement.

[MooglePorn]

I honestly haven't been to the main site in years.