Funimation goes Blu-Ray

[Shawn Watson]

Article

Yet another studio not even considering neutrality. Why are so many people against HD-DVD? This is just plain stupid!

Shawn

[Ruined]

It's pretty simple, since Blu-Ray costs more to get in to, Sony is subsidizing the costs for independent studios and providing free encoding services as well, or so I hear. So long as the studio talks up Blu-Ray in the press release, of course

Not to mention, for right now why not? Blu-Ray has a slight sales advantage and that could mean more sales for the studio (or less, since the only titles that seem to sell better on Blu-Ray are blockbusters likely due to the age group making up the PS3 userbase). Once HD DVD achieves critical mass, studios will be forced to come over. So, you could either be patient and wait for that point (6 months), or you could spend $500 (25 HD DVDs) just for the right to play the studios that Sony is paying to get on board until then.

[Shawn Watson]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Once HD DVD achieves critical mass.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Shawn

[videoworx]

Blu-Ray has a slight sales advantage

Reality check: according to Videoscan, as of last week, out of every 100 HD discs sold this year, 67 are Blu-Ray. That's not a slight advantage.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Reality check: according to Videoscan, as of last week, out of every 100 HD discs sold this year, 67 are Blu-Ray. That's not a slight advantage.[/IMG]

Reality check is right. The sales advantage is most definitely slight.

For every 67 Blu-Ray and HD DVD discs sold...6700 DVDs are sold. When your penetration is so small, the advantage is "slight" because your volume is minimal. When Blu-Ray + HD DVD combined barely make up 1% of the DVD market, saying either one has a "huge" sales advantage is rather comical as the sales are pittance. Percentage wise it may be large, but in terms of actual units moved the advantage is most definitely slight and therefore could go either way at any time.

If we made a nifty graph and compared the sales to standard DVD, both Blu-Ray and HD DVD would be flat on the bottom. Take two glasses of water. Glass one is 67% full. Glass two is 33% full. Well, 67% of a glass of water is a significantly higher percentage than 33% of a glass of water... But now that I tell you we are trying to fill an inground swimming pool, neither glass really has much of an advantage in filling the pool.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Shawn Watson

I don't understand what you mean by this.

In other words, there becomes a point where enough standalone players are sold that political BS and payoffs don't matter because the userbase is so large you make more money selling movies to the userbase. Whether that number is 1million, 3 million, or 5 million players may depend on the studio, but if enough people own a player the shareholders will demand that a company put out content or risk losing boatloads of cash.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

In other words, there becomes a point where enough players are sold that political BS and payoffs don't matter because the userbase is so large you make more money selling movies to the userbase. Whether that number is 1million, 3 million, or 5 million players may depend on the studio, but if enough people own a player the shareholders will demand that a company put out content or risk losing boatloads of cash.

Well, if those numbers are the critical mass numbers, Blu-ray could already claim to have met that threshhold with the ps3. Even in your examples, you always refer to the ps3 effect (though you give scant credit to it in other arguments). Why should shareholders care if the userbase from the chosen format is greater? Then there is the danger for hd-dvd that bd+ actually works and is effective at curbing piracy. At that point, what studio wouldn't want to be a bd studio, if not to protect their content? Even Warner and Paramount might consider dumping hd-dvd if it meant their content was protected.

The sad thing for hd-dvd is that it's not reaching impressive numbers with the install base that it has right now, and with almost equal number of movies out on disc. True, "Smokey and the Bandit" might not appeal as much as "POTC" but judging by your comments on the type of install base the format has, it shouldn't matter, right? Reality is that trends show that bd consistently remains higher than hd-dvd. Even in this thread you acknowledge that you need the studios to switch. If they fail to do so, no matter how long you think Toshiba will carry this war out, it won't be a victory for hd-dvd.

[videoworx]

But now that I tell you we are trying to fill an inground swimming pool, neither glass really has much of an advantage in filling the pool.

The Blu-Ray glass would fill it twice as fast...

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Well, if those numbers are the critical mass numbers, Blu-ray could already claim to have met that threshhold with the ps3. Even in your examples, you always refer to the ps3 effect (though you give scant credit to it in other arguments). Why should shareholders care if the userbase from the chosen format is greater? Then there is the danger for hd-dvd that bd+ actually works and is effective at curbing piracy. At that point, what studio wouldn't want to be a bd studio, if not to protect their content? Even Warner and Paramount might consider dumping hd-dvd if it meant their content was protected.

The sad thing for hd-dvd is that it's not reaching impressive numbers with the install base that it has right now, and with almost equal number of movies out on disc. True, "Smokey and the Bandit" might not appeal as much as "POTC" but judging by your comments on the type of install base the format has, it shouldn't matter, right? Reality is that trends show that bd consistently remains higher than hd-dvd. Even in this thread you acknowledge that you need the studios to switch. If they fail to do so, no matter how long you think Toshiba will carry this war out, it won't be a victory for hd-dvd.

Ah but we can address your two qualms in one foul swoop here. A studio can't count a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, it can only count it as a potential Blu-Ray player in a game console. The primary purpose of the PS3 is to play games, and there is the very real likelihood the person who buys it will only play games - as evidenced by the recently posted study that shows only 13% of gamers watch movies on their console, and of those 75% watch standard DVD. Its further evidenced by the horrible attach rate Blu-Ray as a whole has compared to HD DVD; despite having 5x as many total "potential players" and two-thirds as many true standalone players, they are only maintaing a 2:1 sales ratio. That's because the "BD userbase" isn't made up entirely of Blu-Ray players, it is actually mostly made up of only potential Blu-Ray players and most are using the PS3 only to game. If most used the PS3 to watch BD movies, you'd see a 5:1 sales ratio or more.

A standalone, on the other hand, can be counted as a player because all it does is play movies. So, 2 million potential Blu-Ray players in PS3 is a lot different than 2 million standalone HD DVD players. In the former you might only have 100,000 that play movies while in the latter you have 2 million that play movies and only movies.

Your "unsolvable puzzle" is unlocked with ease - Blu-Ray is leading in sales because it has so much hardware out there even with a piss-poor attach rate it still manages to outsell the 150,000 HD DVD standalones. So yes, some are using the PS3 to watch movies but most aren't. Also, with a selection of good games that can be counted on one hand for PS3, there isn't much else to do with your $600 toy aside from folding@home - and most find movies more exciting than that . And, it is also most likely that the tech-savvy EA is most likely to use the PS3 as a movie player, so I am betting that growth will either flatten out or only grow very slowly despite continued PS3 sales. Once a bevy of games come out, many of those gamers will use their money on games and not movies. With PS3's high price, it is very unlikely it will have rapidly expanding growth comparative to other consoles.

So, it boils down to HD DVD getting their standalones out there. Once they reach a "critical mass" you will see movie studios lining up because you have 1 million, 2 million, whatever it is with hardware they bought to play movies and only play movies. Based on the study where 13% of gamers watch movies on their consoles, and of those 75% watch standard DVD - putting Blu-Ray at 3.25% (probably higher for the first million tech-savvy EAs)... Well that means 10 million PS3s would only equal about 325,000 HD DVD standalones. So if HD DVD standalone sales do hit 1 million this year as predicted, a swing of the sales chart could easily occur even if PS3 sales improve by the end of the year - Sony would have to sell 30 million PS3s to compete based on the study's statistics. And this is exactly why Toshiba is sticking with it for the long haul with low priced, high attach rate standalones.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

The Blu-Ray glass would fill it twice as fast...

And that's excatly the point, the giant Tsunami called DVD already filled it before you could get back to the sink for a single refill. Need to step up the numbers or its irrelevant in the big picture how much higher percentage you have

[videoworx]

It's very simple. If I'm a smaller distribution company, and could only afford to author and replicate Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (the costs for which are nearly identical, btw), then all I have to do is look at the numbers. If I put 100 HD customers in a room, 67 of them will buy a Blu-Ray disc, and 33 will buy a HD-DVD.

I'd rather sell 67 discs.

[Shawn Watson]

But I thought that HD DVD could be replicated with oridinary DVD equipment...or something.

Shawn

[videoworx]

Originally Posted by Shawn Watson

But I thought that HD DVD could be replicated with oridinary DVD equipment...or something.

Shawn

Here's a 4 month old article showing that the prices are just about even:
http://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-...zed-again/113/

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Ah but we can address your two qualms in one foul swoop here. A studio can't count a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, it can only count it as a potential Blu-Ray player in a game console. The primary purpose of the PS3 is to play games, and there is the very real likelihood the person who buys it will only play games - as evidenced by the recently posted study that shows only 13% of gamers watch movies on their console, and of those 75% watch standard DVD. Its further evidenced by the horrible attach rate Blu-Ray as a whole has compared to HD DVD; despite having 5x as many total "potential players" and two-thirds as many true standalone players, they are only maintaing a 2:1 sales ratio. That's because the "BD userbase" isn't made up entirely of Blu-Ray players, it is actually mostly made up of only potential Blu-Ray players and most are using the PS3 only to game. If most used the PS3 to watch BD movies, you'd see a 5:1 sales ratio or more.

Who said "most" have to use their ps3 to watch bd movies only? If even a tenth of the ps3 buyers are bd movie watchers only (and maybe casual gamers like myself), you still blow hd-dvd out of the water on hardware sales. The fact that you can't "count" them means that you eliminate a huge part of the bd player base. I'm guessing the studios are not doing that, and the sales data supports their belief that the ps3 is a player that will support sales for their content.

Also, you have long trumpeted that the dual player is the key for hd-dvd. But that means that studios have even less reason to switch, unless you still think that the cost difference between bd and hd-dvd is that massive.

Finally, you act like Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp, and Samsung will not be selling any bd players to reach the same mark. I still will counter that the BDA will near price points of hd-dvd not cede any ground by the planned Toshiba offensive at Christmas time.

A standalone, on the other hand, can be counted as a player because all it does is play movies. So, 2 million potential Blu-Ray players in PS3 is a lot different than 2 million standalone HD DVD players. In the former you might only have 100,000 that play movies while in the latter you have 2 million that play movies and only movies.

But the point still remains that you can have 2 million hd-dvd users, but if the sales don't match the ownership rates, first, your attachment rate statements seem wrong, and second, it doesn't convince studios to switch. Betamax had millions of users too. That didn't mean that it won against VHS.

Your "unsolvable puzzle" is unlocked with ease - Blu-Ray is leading in sales because it has so much hardware out there even with a piss-poor attach rate it still manages to outsell the 150,000 HD DVD standalones. So yes, some are using the PS3 to watch movies but most aren't. Also, with a selection of good games that can be counted on one hand for PS3, there isn't much else to do with your $600 toy aside from folding@home - and most find movies more exciting than that . And, it is also most likely that the tech-savvy EA is most likely to use the PS3 as a movie player, so I am betting that growth will either flatten out or only grow very slowly despite continued PS3 sales. Once a bevy of games come out, many of those gamers will use their money on games and not movies. With PS3's high price, it is very unlikely it will have rapidly expanding growth comparative to other consoles.

No doubt that more games will draw gamers attention away from movies. But like I've said, the ps3 is not just for gamers, and even gamers watch movies. If the BDA comes out with movie titles that are available in high def, those sales will skyrocket with ps3 owners, because they will all want to own it. It explains why "Casino Royale" continues to sell well. The key is that even if "some" ps3 users are rabid movie fans and buy bd films, the amount of those "some" equals more than the hd-dvd standalone base.

So, it boils down to HD DVD getting their standalones out there. Once they reach a "critical mass" you will see movie studios lining up because you have 1 million, 2 million, whatever it is with hardware they bought to play movies and only play movies. Based on the study where 13% of gamers watch movies on their consoles, and of those 75% watch standard DVD - putting Blu-Ray at 3.25% (probably higher for the first million tech-savvy EAs)... Well that means 10 million PS3s would only equal about 325,000 HD DVD standalones. So if HD DVD standalone sales do hit 1 million this year as predicted, a swing of the sales chart could easily occur even if PS3 sales improve by the end of the year - Sony would have to sell 30 million PS3s to compete based on the study's statistics. And this is exactly why Toshiba is sticking with it for the long haul with low priced, high attach rate standalones.

I guess we'll see. Studios may figure that it's more worth it to just wait for the weaker format to die out and continue producing just one version of the disc than it is to go dual format. And by your logic, why wouldn't Universal and the Weinstein's decide to switch to blu-ray if there are so many users on that side? Chances are they won't until hd-dvd is not an option. Something tells me that bd studios might be so inclined, especially if bd+ works.

[Pirate]

Top anime distributor FUNimation is jumping into Blu-ray, with the announcement of a 'Dragon Ball Z' double feature headed to high-def this November.

IGN broke the news of the upcoming announcement, which FUNimation is apparently planning to make later this week at this year's Comic-Con convention in San Diego, California.

Due in stores November 13, FUNimation's first Blu-ray release will be a Dragon Ball Z double feature, including the full-length features 'Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan' and 'Broly: Second Coming' on a single disc. Both are currently two of the top-selling titles in the Dragon Ball Z franchise.

"After seeing demos of each next generation platform, it was clear that the Blu-ray platform was ideal for FUNimation," Ward Thomas, Senior Vice-President of Sales and Operations at FUNimation Entertainment told IGN. "The capabilities of the Blu-ray technology allows our fans to enjoy their favorite FUNimation titles like never before."

Both features have been remastered in 1080p high-definition, and will include newly-remixed 5.1 surround tracks (exact audio formats have not yet been announced).

The disc will also include a featurette on the restoration, "Dragon Ball Z: A New Look," which is also presented in full 1080p video.

FUNimation has not yet announced pricing details for its 'Dragon Ball Z' double-header, but we'll keep you posted as final details are officially announced.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...agonball_Z/806

[ganthc]

[Ruined]

As I've said before, Blu-Ray needs victory now (meaning 1q2007 - 3q2007) or never. Expect the FUD and backroom deals from the BDA camp to increase as the looming 4th quarter approaches. BD can't get to the mass market as fast as HD DVD, so if they can't kill it now its unlikely they will ever be able to.

As a consumer who wants the best value product with the least DRM and most interactivity, I'll stand up and fight for HD DVD. I'll continue to vote with my dollars and I know others will as well. HD DVD has what it takes to take off in the mass market, and that is exactly what Toshiba and Universal for that matter is supporting it so staunchly. Universal gets more money if more people buy their movies, and that will happen if HD DVD taps the mass market first. BDA is a bunch of bitter Japanese companies who saw the Chinese take away their market with DVD and they don't want the same to happen with hidef. And thats exactly why Samsung and LG went neutral.

Well, I don't care about a bunch of angry Japanese companies or DRM-hungry studios, I just want the best product for the best value with the least intrusive DRM - and that is HD DVD. The BDA can pull out all the FUD and backroom deals that they want, but in the end they'll all be exposed to be a bunch of hooey.

[sub780lime]

Im sorry, but your post seems totally out of place.

[Sehnzeleid]

Excellent, I can't wait to see like 347 DBZ titles on DVD on BD now.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by sub780lime

Im sorry, but your post seems totally out of place.

It is very much in place as a response to ganthc's graphic.

[Shawn Watson]

Was there something wrong with MY THREAD on this subject?

Shawn

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Shawn Watson

Was there something wrong with MY THREAD on this subject?

Shawn

Yes: the search feature.

Closing...

[Taxi]

You'll have to excuse PH. He's had a bad week or so...

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Taxi

You'll have to excuse PH. He's had a bad week or so...

I also decided to get off caffeine.

[ganthc]

Nice thread merging!!