Weinstein Company going Blu

[Derb]

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1677

Does this mean I have to sell all my HD DVD Weinstein titles too?

Doh!

[Ruined]

Of course not. The gameplan from the start with HD DVD was to foster coexistance of both formats... Target audiences being HD DVD for J6P and BD for PS3 gamers. Of course, that means eventually all studios will go neutral. So pick whichever you like better... It seems you have tossed away a lot of money by rebuying stuff which makes little sense to me. But, with both coexisting, in the end you can choose which you like better. For me, that is easily HD DVD.

[dugpa]

I believe the rumor was specific to the Grindhouse titles. I don't know if they'll re-release old titles.

Just why are you re-buying everything Derb? If it plays fine, why bother? I'm slowly shifting Blu as I buy new discs, but I see no reason to re-purchase any of my HD-DVD titles. Maybe ten years from now when my hd-dvd player has died and there's nothing to replace it with, but as long as I can still play my hd-dvd's it seems silly to buy them over again.

[Shawn Watson]

I don't own any Weinstein HDs, but this is still more bad news for HD-DVD owners.

Shawn

[Hayrab]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Of course not. The gameplan from the start with HD DVD was to foster coexistance of both formats... Target audiences being HD DVD for J6P and BD for PS3 gamers. Of course, that means eventually all studios will go neutral. So pick whichever you like better... It seems you have tossed away a lot of money by rebuying stuff which makes little sense to me. But, with both coexisting, in the end you can choose which you like better. For me, that is easily HD DVD.

You seriously think 2 formats can co-exist? Do you think consumers are smart enough to know that HD-DVD is for them and BluRay is for the gamers? When the 80 year old grandmother goes into bestbuy to buy the latest animation title for her grand kids is she going to know the difference? The better question is, will the bestbuy employee even know the difference.

Do you think studio's are going to release on 2 seperate formats just for the hell of it when its much cheaper to make one kind of disc instead of multiple different production lines? Last I heard Hollywood is trying to make as much money as possible on home video. Im sorry Ruined but you are just delusional.

[MooglePorn]

The problem with Ruined's post is that Sony/MGM will NEVER go HD DVD until they have absolutely no other choice... until BD is almost dead if not already rotting.

Weinstein on the other hand just switched... (YAY!)... and Universal is left as the only thing preventing an obvious BD victory. As soon as every movie is available on one format or the other this thing BETTER be over.

"Every studio releases for BD... some major studios are missing from HD DVD... hmmm... I think I'll go HD DVD because some guy on a forum told me it's better despite having less disc space..."

YOU DO THE MATH.

Snicker.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dugpa

I believe the rumor was specific to the Grindhouse titles. I don't know if they'll re-release old titles.

Just why are you re-buying everything Derb?

I'm not so sure either if they'd release the titles on BD that are already out for HD DVD. Sinse they already have the encodes, it would be an easy swap.

The reason is simple. I have a Sorny space ship above my house which makes loads times, navigation, & disc playback on HD DVDs unreliable.

I'm keeping the 19 Warner Bros. titles out now for HD DVD that are exclusive. Only 1 Weinstein title I own has a very minor hiccup in one scene, I think Derailed.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Derb

I'm not so sure either if they'd release the titles on BD that are already out for HD DVD. Sinse they already have the encodes, it would be an easy swap.

The reason is simple. I have a Sorny space ship above my house which makes loads times, navigation, & disc playback on HD DVDs unreliable.

I'm keeping the 19 Warner Bros. titles out now for HD DVD that are exclusive. Only 1 Weinstein title I own has a very minor hiccup in one scene, I think Derailed.

The real issue, Derb, is that some of these titles will be double dips in the future. And I KNOW you will buy the better version. Warner has already shown it's all on board for double dipping, and the formats are barely a year old now. But don't let me stop you from buying bd movies. If anything, it helps with the numbers.

I love how Ruined has spun the Weinstein's going neutral as a good thing. Well, let's just have Universal go neutral and see if hd-dvd lasts more than a year. Just like in video games, exclusivity is the key selling point for a format. With just one lonely studio supporting hd-dvd exclusively, it seems that this Christmas season better be gangbusters for Toshiba, or it will be the death knell for the format.

[Shawn Watson]

Every day it's just more and more bad news for HD. They're not even trying. If there is no good news or major releases by the end of the year I am giving up. I'll keep what I've got. But I'll buy no more.

Shawn

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Shawn Watson

Every day it's just more and more bad news for HD. They're not even trying. If there is no good news or major releases by the end of the year I am giving up. I'll keep what I've got. But I'll buy no more.

Shawn

Not to mention that even with the Bourne weekend extravaganza, with the Bourne Identity coming out on hd-dvd, and being the top selling disc, and with the movie coming out last weekend, that hd-dvd still couldn't get about 40% in sales, and bd sales are 2:1 better than hd-dvd.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

The problem with Ruined's post is that Sony/MGM will NEVER go HD DVD until they have absolutely no other choice... until BD is almost dead if not already rotting.

Weinstein on the other hand just switched... (YAY!)... and Universal is left as the only thing preventing an obvious BD victory. As soon as every movie is available on one format or the other this thing BETTER be over.

"Every studio releases for BD... some major studios are missing from HD DVD... hmmm... I think I'll go HD DVD because some guy on a forum told me it's better despite having less disc space..."

YOU DO THE MATH.

Snicker.

I did do the math, and that is why I think HD DVD is here to stay.

Focus groups have shown that J6P wants HiDef content on disc, but that J6P is not willing to pay a price premium for a HiDef player. In other words, they want it but they don't want to shell out a significant amount of cash for it. That is why in the long run HD DVD is the wiser choice - the players are cheaper to make, the reference design is there for cheaper Chinese players, the software is cheaper to make due to using existing DVD replication lines. Until players approach mass-market prices, J6P will definitely not buy in. HD DVD demonstrated that they have the design to go mass market, while BD has not.

In addition, in the long run the HD DVD name is easier to understand. You are right, how will J6P know which one to buy? Well, its pretty obvious that HD DVD is a high definition DVD based on its name - Blu-Ray, not so much. So if I had to predict what would happen, I would guess we would end up with either A) a unified format such as TotalHD, or B) HD DVD discs would be placed in the movies aisle while BD would be put next to the PS3 videogames (similar to UMD placement for PSP).

The option of BD being the next standard seems far-fetched due to the expensive entry price, lower inherent value, and lack of software backwards compatibility with DVD. However, it is clearly possible that Toshiba could drop the ball - we will see how HD DVD pans out this Q4. If HD DVD does not achieve the mass penetration that is planned then no, Sony/MGM will not release on HD DVD. But if they do achieve that penetration with standalone and capture a good chunk of the DVD market, then we will see all studios release for HD DVD. There will be too much money left on the table not to, even if Sony has their own format.

It all boils down to whose campaign will win in the long run. So far, though Blu-Ray is selling better at the moment, Blu-Ray's goal is to wipe out the competition and so far they have failed at that. Looking at dvdwars we can see that HD DVD continues to hang in there now selling better than it has in the past 3 months.

If HD DVD is "dead," why are we seeing an upswing in sales? Why are HD DVD sales on Amazon the best that they have been in the past 3 months? Why does HD DVD have momentum going into Q4? Even with the Nielsen numbers, 60/40 definitely shows that Blu-Ray has failed at "winning" the war to date.

And, Blu-Ray's long term gameplan revolves around BD being the only format, crushing the competition. That is not happening in reality despite Sony PR trying to make it happen. Sure BD is selling better, but they are a far cry away from "winning." The HD DVD group's plan involves studios going neutral because they know that cheaper prices will win the day in the end, and that studio support follows sales, period. Studios are in this to make money, not to line Sony's pockets. If HD DVD can execute their gameplan, the studios will fold their exclusivity in a flash. Until that point, though, I'd expect smaller studios to go neutral - why not when there is money to be made on the other side? Though HD DVD will in the long run need the support of all studios, for now just having a large amount of content is good enough because we are by far still in the adoption phase. People are still buying players, so simply having a wide selection is good enough for most (not everyone buys 10+ movies a month). While J6P in the end will demand more studio support, by the time that happens HD DVD should have that studio support, assuming they execute their plan in Q4 and over the next couple of years. For now, though we can see that the war is very much still raging on despite Sony & the BDA claiming it is over every other month for the past 6 months:

Top10 sales ranking on Amazon from 5/1/07 to 8/6/07, HD DVD is black, BD blue

[venetian blinds]

When did "joe six pack" become the standard term for people who arent obsessive compulsive with A\V playback?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by venetian blinds

When did "joe six pack" become the standard term for people who arent obsessive compulsive with A\V playback?

Just an easy term to use that everyone can understand. "Average Joe" or "Average Person" would work as well, I suppose.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by venetian blinds

When did "joe six pack" become the standard term for people who arent obsessive compulsive with A\V playback?

Back in the divx days, actually. It's a commonly accepted term, and is not meant to be derogatory.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Taxi

and is not meant to be derogatory.

Speak for yourself.

[Taxi]

I guess I should have said "...and is not usually meant to be derogatory."

[Derb]

Thing is, people attach Joe Six Pack to Wallmart customers (or any for that matter) which prefer Full Screen over Widescreen DVDs.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Derb

Thing is, people attach Joe Six Pack to Wallmart customers (or any for that matter) which prefer Full Screen over Widescreen DVDs.

And to people who watch Blu-ray on PS3's.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by dugpa

And to people who watch Blu-ray on PS3's.

I feel sorry for you dugpa, that you spent so much money on a blu-ray player that will never be as good as the ps3 is.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by ganthc

I feel sorry for you dugpa, that you spent so much money on a blu-ray player that will never be as good as the ps3 is.

Yeah, I should have bought the PS3 so I couldn't listen to the new audio formats due to it's lack of analog outs. And I miss it's crappy decoding of SD DVDs. And every morning I wake up feeling empty because I don't have a slotloading machine to scratch my discs. And I really missed getting to pay extra for simple featues like a remote control. Damn, what was I thinking!

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Yeah, I should have bought the PS3 so I couldn't listen to the new audio formats due to it's lack of analog outs. And I miss it's crappy decoding of SD DVDs. And every morning I wake up feeling empty because I don't have a slotloading machine to scratch my discs. And I really missed getting to pay extra for simple featues like a remote control. Damn, what was I thinking!

Whaa! I'm an analog out person. Whaa! It's time for you to upgrade to hdmi, seriously.

As far as the decoding of sd-dvds, you are wrong. The ps3 does a better job than my hd-a2 does at upconverting my old sd-dvds. And bd's don't scratch on the ps3...nor have any of my sd-dvds either. And you don't have to pay for the remote. The game controller works perfectly fine.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

As far as the decoding of sd-dvds, you are wrong. The ps3 does a better job than my hd-a2 does at upconverting my old sd-dvds. And bd's don't scratch on the ps3...nor have any of my sd-dvds either. And you don't have to pay for the remote. The game controller works perfectly fine.

Is he?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...h&articles=133

The always-reliable Secrets of Home Theater HiFi stated:

"As a standard DVD player, however, the PS3 may represent one of the worst progressive scan players I have ever tested."

Perhaps your HD-A2 is broken? It got a good review from the same site.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Yeah, I should have bought the PS3 so I couldn't listen to the new audio formats due to it's lack of analog outs.

HDMI dude, get out of the prehistoric age.

Originally Posted by dugpa

And I miss it's crappy decoding of SD DVDs.

Why would DVDs enter your thought of reference when buying Blu-Ray?

Originally Posted by dugpa

And every morning I wake up feeling empty because I don't have a slotloading machine to scratch my discs.

BDs can't scratch remember.

Originally Posted by dugpa

And I really missed getting to pay extra for simple featues like a remote control.

So $500 more for the BDP-S1 is of better value because it comes with a remote?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Playstati...6428755&sr=1-1

[supercutz]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I did do the math, and that is why I think HD DVD is here to stay.

Focus groups have shown that J6P wants HiDef content on disc, but that J6P is not willing to pay a price premium for a HiDef player. In other words, they want it but they don't want to shell out a significant amount of cash for it. That is why in the long run HD DVD is the wiser choice - the players are cheaper to make, the reference design is there for cheaper Chinese players, the software is cheaper to make due to using existing DVD replication lines. Until players approach mass-market prices, J6P will definitely not buy in. HD DVD demonstrated that they have the design to go mass market, while BD has not.

You talk as if BR players will never lower in price. BTW, if consumers are so worried about cost then why are there HD-DVD movies coming at a higher price point than BR (see 300 @ 39.99 HD vs 34.99 BR)? Also, if you will recall the initial price to jump to DVD was pretty expensive when that format first hit the market and that didn't stop it from being the next standard.

In addition, in the long run the HD DVD name is easier to understand. You are right, how will J6P know which one to buy? Well, its pretty obvious that HD DVD is a high definition DVD based on its name - Blu-Ray, not so much. So if I had to predict what would happen, I would guess we would end up with either A) a unified format such as TotalHD, or B) HD DVD discs would be placed in the movies aisle while BD would be put next to the PS3 videogames (similar to UMD placement for PSP).

If you ask "J6P" what DVD stands for he couldn't tell you so expecting him to know what "HD" stand for in front of it won't matter. Also comparing UMD to BR is about as weak as you can get. UMD is proprietary to PSP, NO other player can play it so of course it's wrapped in with the PSP games. Obviously BR has stand-alone players as well as PS3 so it obviously makes a lot more sense to put the format in with other movies (DVD/HD-DVD).

The option of BD being the next standard seems far-fetched due to the expensive entry price, lower inherent value, and lack of software backwards compatibility with DVD. However, it is clearly possible that Toshiba could drop the ball - we will see how HD DVD pans out this Q4. If HD DVD does not achieve the mass penetration that is planned then no, Sony/MGM will not release on HD DVD. But if they do achieve that penetration with standalone and capture a good chunk of the DVD market, then we will see all studios release for HD DVD. There will be too much money left on the table not to, even if Sony has their own format.

See my first point about cost

As for your other points, BR players play and upconvert DVDs so your BC comment is false. Also it seems like there's far more money resting on BR's table which is why we're continuing to see companies transition over to the format. The same cannot be said for HD-DVD. Companies are obviously losing a lot more money being HD-DVD only vs being BR only