Sony: HiDef war is a stalemate

[Ruined]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6182612...stnews;title;1



cannot find jaw, it fell on the floor and is lost.

Stringer declares stalemate in Blu-ray war
The Sony CEO says that the HD DVD and Blu-ray video formats are locked in a battle neither can win.

By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK
Posted Nov 9, 2007 4:39 am PT

Sony's PlayStation 3 console also allows gamers to play Blu-ray movies, in competition with the HD DVD format favoured by Microsoft.

The two have been locked in their own format war, fighting to be the consumer's choice after the current favourite, DVD. HD DVD is backed by Toshiba and Microsoft, Blu-ray by Sony and Panasonic.

In June, major video rental store Blockbuster said it would be opting for Blu-ray in stores, and many would not be selling the HD DVD format at all. The company cited the fact that the PlayStation 3 uses Blu-ray as one of the reasons for its decision. In August, it was reported that Blu-ray was outselling HD DVD by 2-to-1.

However, also in August, major motion picture company Paramount Pictures decided to back HD DVD, and ceased production of most of its Blu-ray movies.

Howard Stringer, Sony's CEO, told the AP news agency that he believes the two formats are now at a stalemate, "It's been a difficult fight. We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides." However, Stringer said that he believed it was mainly a matter of prestige, and that it would ultimately not matter which format won out in the end.

He also said that he wished he could travel back in time to before he was made CEO of the company, when he believes there was a chance to unite the camps into one format.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Article

He also said that he wished he could travel back in time to before he was made CEO of the company, when he believes there was a chance to unite the camps into one format.

That's BS. He could still attempt to unite the camps. I think the problem now is that with Toshiba gaining momentum at Christmas, the time to unite isn't looking so great for Sony. Perhaps they ought to give it a shot rather than to be continually obstinate about it.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

That's BS. He could still attempt to unite the camps. I think the problem now is that with Toshiba gaining momentum at Christmas, the time to unite isn't looking so great for Sony. Perhaps they ought to give it a shot rather than to be continually obstinate about it.

Walmart sold out of thei standalone HD DVD stock on the first weekend of November (as you experienced), I imagine Toshiba is gearing up inventory to prepare for a Black Friday ad-assault.


Also, if the war is a stalemate, that means all studios will eventually go neutral. No studio will shut out 50% of the profit longterm.

So now whether or not you want to spend $300-$400 more for a BD player over a HD DVD player hinges upon your patience for the dominos to inevitably fall over the next year. $400 is a lot of money to pay for instant gratification when there are a ton of awesome HD DVD movies out already.

[tomdkat]

Has Toshiba responded to this?

Peace...

[jriseden]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Has Toshiba responded to this?

Peace...

Yeah Toshiba said this was always in their plans...

[chlngr1970]

I thought the war was over and blu ray won Seems to me this is an attempt ot admit they were wrong without realy admitting anything.

Meh, I have chosen my format. I have no intention of changing that.

j

[Derb]

The Sony CEO says that the HD DVD and Blu-ray video formats are locked in a battle neither can win.

Good.

[SharpShooter5]

well i looked at the facts back in march, and made the choice of bluray cause it just seemed to make the most sense form a title avalability and studio support standpoint

Had paramount gone HDDVD back then instead of after i made my choice it still wouldn't of changed my mind, cause theres stillmore studio/director support for bluray even with paramount going HD

From a logical standpoint theres really no difference in video or audio, so they only thing left is size, which BR wins and title availability wihich bluray also easily wins

no offense to HDDVD owners but besides having an xbox i can't see where the motivation comes from for chosing that side, unless you really love universal movies..lol

In a perfect world they would have merged the two formats but that means that sony and microsoft would have to come together which will never happen. I'd even except format neutral, but unless HD just destroys BR (very unlikley) fox, disney and especially sony will never support the HD DVD format

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by SharpShooter5

Had paramount gone HDDVD back then instead of after i made my choice it still wouldn't of changed my mind, cause theres stillmore studio/director support for bluray even with paramount going HD

It would have been interesting to see how Paramount's move would have impacted the war if they went HD DVD exclusively earlier.

Peace...

[jriseden]

I really don't think this is such a big story. I mean yes hdm adoption has been slowed by the format war but it's not like you cant see who's in first and second place right now.

The next year or so will let both Toshiba and Sony know if hd and blu are going to eventually be profitable ventures, and if both sides like the return they are getting on their investments we can always just shift to combo players being the norm if we have to.

[MooglePorn]

I'd like more direct quotes on this... note that in the article only one comment is in quotes, and it's nowhere near the "meat" of the article, just the "we tried to win..." comment.

Anyone got a story with what he actually said?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by jriseden

Yeah Toshiba said this was always in their plans...

Ironically, if you look back in my previous posts, Toshiba/Microsoft did say back in 2006 when Amir gave his speech during the AVS Insider Meeting at Value Electronics that they expected the war to:
1. Result in both formats being successful (stalemate)
2. Further, they stated when this happened studios would go neutral and dual format players would penetrate the market as neither hardware companies nor content providers want to get shut out of a big chunk of the profits. Customers would buy the dual format players in order to be safe.
3. Finally, once dual-format players fully penetrate the market and become standard, they believed that studios would eventually (in the future) settle on HD DVD to avoid higher replication costs of BD since the market would all have dual players already by then anyway as they would cost very little.

That pretty much has been the HD DVD gameplan as far as I know; remember, a tie is a win for the HD DVD camp as worse comes to worse and both formats fail it preserves the DVD format which Toshiba profits greatly off of. Amir went as far to say that he believed that HD DVD and BD would eventually be marketed as features of standard DVD players (like DTS was back when it first came out).

[rixrex]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Ironically, if you look back in my previous posts, Toshiba/Microsoft did say back in 2006 when Amir gave his speech during the AVS Insider Meeting at Value Electronics that they expected the war to:
1. Result in both formats being successful (stalemate)
2. Further, they stated when this happened studios would go neutral and dual format players would penetrate the market as neither hardware companies nor content providers want to get shut out of a big chunk of the profits. Customers would buy the dual format players in order to be safe.
3. Finally, once dual-format players fully penetrate the market and become standard, they believed that studios would eventually (in the future) settle on HD DVD to avoid higher replication costs of BD since the market would all have dual players already by then anyway as they would cost very little.

That pretty much has been the HD DVD gameplan as far as I know; remember, a tie is a win for the HD DVD camp as worse comes to worse and both formats fail it preserves the DVD format which Toshiba profits greatly off of. Amir went as far to say that he believed that HD DVD and BD would eventually be marketed as features of standard DVD players (like DTS was back when it first came out).

Exactly right. Good marketing plans combined with good prices will produce success in competitive situations where all other aspects are relatively equal. You can say that in the comparisons of BD and HD, not all is equal, yet in general they do balance rather well. The last time I saw a good marketing plan from Sony was with the Trinitron screen, which made Sony a giant.

Since then, they have ranged from poor to fair. The comment from an exec who stated that they thought they'd win on the merits meant that they thought they had a visibly superior product, and also that it would be recognized as such by most of the purchasing public. Sony typically has this type of technocratic game plan, and it really only worked for them once or perhaps twice.

The HD plan is not as aggressive as I would have it be, yet it is a good plan and will succeed over time if the other camp cannot come up with a deal of some sort that breaks the 'stalemate'. Usually when a company says there's a stalemate, they are in a weakened position, or it's a ploy to hide an agenda that will be sprung as a surprise. Given Sony's history of marketing conservatism, relatively speaking, the last 30 yrs, that seems unlikely unless some new players (execs) have unique ideas that are ready for deployment.

Exclusivity deals could break down when producers realize they are not tapping all of the potential market, should a stalemate last for quite a while, as well they should. In fact, if someone like Teddy Roosevelt was in office, we might see some trust-busting and oligarchy and monopoly breaking activity going on.

Those who have wide views of monopolistic behavior would argue that exclusivity deals between production companies and vendors are anti-competitive and not in the public interest, and create de facto oligarchies. In this case the production companies are the film & TV studios and the vendors are both the makers of players and the outlets like Blockbuster who choose (generally) one product to present in it's stores.

Certainly the other valid arguement is that in matters of this nature, that being television industry standards, a prescribed common standard should be chosen by the government, such as what happened with many of the broadcast and television standards we now have. This type of control is stated as being in the public interest as well.

[tomdkat]

Great post.

Peace...

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by SharpShooter5

no offense to HDDVD owners but besides having an xbox i can't see where the motivation comes from for chosing that side, unless you really love universal movies..lol

My primary motivation: HD DVD is region free by default

KM

[Sehnzeleid]

For me, HD DVD was cheaper when I bought my A1 for $500 in Juky of 2006. It was either the PS3 or $1000+ for a BD player. I didn't opt for the PS3 at the time since I found my then recently bought 360 wasn't getting much use.

I found that I do like Universal's HD DVD output, and the Weinstein HD DVDs I have, and Warner's HD DVD output with either titles not on Blu-ray or with better specs/added features. Plus I love the feeling of not worrying about region coding and the upscaling performance of the A1, which meets or exceeds my Denon 2910.

There certainly are quite a few reasons to prefer HD DVD.

[rixrex]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

My primary motivation: HD DVD is region free by default

KM

A fine reason, esp if you've had the headaches of dealing with region coding.

It's pretty much retrograde behavior to continue region coding with tech advances basically making 720 and 1080 standard worldwide.

HD is supported by Universal, but also Paramount, Dreamworks, New Line, and Warners (supports both), and all others are still available on S-DVD, so there are some other reasons to choose a particular format.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

My primary motivation: HD DVD is region free by default

KM

Not to mention, and most importantly for me, no BD+ big-brother DRM on HD DVD.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by rixrex

A fine reason, esp if you've had the headaches of dealing with region coding.

Which I've had, extensively. I've had my solution in place for a while now, but in the beginning of the DVD format's existence it was a big hurdle to overcome. One I'd rather not have to repeat.

KM

[ganthc]

I would disagree that Sony hasn't waged a good marketing plan. I think that they have set out to establish brand recognition, where people hear or see blu-ray and know it means high def. I think that with magazine ads, internet ads, and the inclusion of the bd drive in the ps3, they have created a presence that is something to build on. They established ties with Blockbuster, and Target, along with other retailers, essentially trying to freeze out hd-dvd from retail shelf space. This isn't exactly a poor marketing strategy.

The next Sony marketing step will be to create an awareness program for the ps3. Basically inform all its users that the console can play highdef movies. There are millions of players that can be awakened to owners that want to buy blu-ray movies. Any marketing strategies that allow for more ps3 owners to buy blu-ray movies will be a success. Add on to that the dropping prices of bd standalones, and you do have a strategy for the format.

The real stalemate arose from HD-DVD buying off Paramount. Up until then, the war was looking to be over, as Universal was the only exclusive studio that was churning out movies. Having Paramount's content (specifically Transformers) is what has sold a lot of hd-dvd players, and good new releases will as well. For hd-dvd, it was a marketing and format coup.

The result was that it brought back Fox into the game, which has been turning out titles frequently since. But until Warner makes a decision either way, there is a stalemate, with disc sales being the only indicator of how either side is doing. And without TotalHD, I wonder if Warner does want to continue to support both formats? Either way it goes, it will convince studios and consumers to go that direction.

[Mr. Furious]

With MS's xbox Live rental service costing $6/per HD rental, they can forget about getting my dollars that way.

[Ruined]

The reason Sony's marketing plan has not been great is because it failed to make Blu-Ray the clear format winner - as evidenced by HD DVD continuing to stay in the game with much higher standalone sales and even outsell BD in software at times (masked in Nielsen numbers by extreme BDA software promotions) - while at the same time completely losing the game market to both Microsoft in Nintendo. Sony's marketing plan for the PS3 has landed them a stalemate in the hidef disc battle as admitted by their own top brass and what appears to be a loss in the gaming department as evidenced by both continued poor hardware sales (see NPD numbers) and poor software revenue (see EA evidence) in the USA; EA recently reported that PS3 lands them less revenue than any other console or handheld in production, yet PS3 remains the most costly console to program for due to its complex design.

While Sony may have done well in other territories, clearly their marketing plan for the PS3 in the USA has landed them in a quagmire which they are currently trying to escape. By the time they actually do get out of their quandary and make their console affordable, though, it will likely be too late with the average consumer choosing 360 or Wii for its better value and/or wider game library. PS3's inclusion of BD was crucial for making the market this year lean towards BD over HD DVD, but now that HD DVD standalones are in the $200 range and a stalemate is inevitable the inclusion of BD in PS3 becomes a much less attractive feature.

[supercutz]

stalemate = me bailing out

I have decided not to continue my participation in this dumb format war. I haven't invested heavily into either HD-DVD or BD so it won't be that much of a loss to offload what few movies I have and my Xbox 360 HD-DVD player on eBay. I'm content sitting on the sidelines enjoying SD for now.

-1 HD consumer here! Good job :-|

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by supercutz

stalemate = me bailing out

I have decided not to continue my participation in this dumb format war. I haven't invested heavily into either HD-DVD or BD so it won't be that much of a loss to offload what few movies I have and my Xbox 360 HD-DVD player on eBay. I'm content sitting on the sidelines enjoying SD for now.

-1 HD consumer here! Good job :-|

I don't understand this ideology at all.

[sub780lime]

Originally Posted by supercutz

stalemate = me bailing out

I have decided not to continue my participation in this dumb format war. I haven't invested heavily into either HD-DVD or BD so it won't be that much of a loss to offload what few movies I have and my Xbox 360 HD-DVD player on eBay. I'm content sitting on the sidelines enjoying SD for now.

-1 HD consumer here! Good job :-|

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

I don't understand this ideology at all.

I don't follow either. Why not keep what you having? What are you losing by keeping them? It's not like you have to buy anything going forward.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by supercutz