SD still out sells Blu-Ray or HD-DVD

[DakotaDave]

I like how everyone argues about who's going to win the HD wars, and who out sells whom when SD is still around and still out selling both formats. If you walk in to a Target, or K-Mart all Blu-ray and HD-DVD's are on endcap's, but all the SD's still have a full isle. Not only are they the disks still affordable, but compared to the Blu-ray players; the upconverter players are a hell of a lot more affordable, and do quite a good job.

So I urge anyone who thinks they have to rush out and buy a $300-$400 Blu-Ray player, or a $400-$500 when they final announcement is made; don't waste your money when all you have to do is buy an upconverter player or a Toshiba SD2HD player finally comes out. It will still be tons cheaper, and you can still use your existing library with out upgrading.

[supercutz]

I'm not sure exactly why this thread needed to be made because this is common knowledge but, hey I'll entertain it none the less.

Sure DVD is still the #1 selling movie format but sales are starting to slump even if it is minor and HD is gaining sales momentum. On top of that Hollywood is eager to move on because of the saturated DVD market where they are unable to make money off anything other than new releases. Also people buying new HDTVs are going to want to warrant the purchase by also buying HDM to justify the investment. Upscalers/SD2HD players don't qualify, imo.

[DakotaDave]

Originally Posted by supercutz

I'm not sure exactly why this thread needed to be made because this is common knowledge but, hey I'll entertain it none the less.

Sure DVD is still the #1 selling movie format but sales are starting to slump even if it is minor and HD is gaining sales momentum. On top of that Hollywood is eager to move on because of the saturated DVD market where they are unable to make money off anything other than new releases. Also people buying new HDTVs are going to want to warrant the purchase by also buying HDM to justify the investment. Upscalers/SD2HD players don't qualify, imo.

It'll be 3-4 years before HD or Blu-Ray takes sole possession of the Home Theater market. The prices are too high for the Average Joe to be able to afford anything Hi-def. Sure HDtv's are selling, but that's only due to the misconseption of the Digital change next year.

[Derb]

So far I've watched 643 HD discs.

Only 2 were on par with their dvd counterparts upconverted..

[jriseden]

Sure the masses don't have anything hd yet. No hdtv, no hd dvd, no blu-ray etc..., But that doesn't mean that as we speak someone isn't dropping 5 grand on a Pioneer plasma, or 400 bucks on a ps3, or 200 dollars on a handful of blu-ray discs.

There is a big and profitable market for all things hd right now, it might not be mainstream yet, but it is a growing market and the fact that it is a growing market means that companies will be introducing hd product left and right to meet this demand.

Prices come down, people who swore they would never buy in do buy in and something that was once a niche becomes the mainstream. You don't have to warn anyone DakotaDave, no one is being fooled into believing they NEED hd entertainment, people either want it or they don't. No one is forcing them, not even terrible old evil Sony.

[jbat31]

Originally Posted by Derb

So far I've watched 643 HD discs.

Only 2 were on par with their dvd counterparts upconverted..

holy crap, where do you find the time and the money.!!!!!!!!!!

seriously though, i understand what he is saying, it will be a long time before sd goes anywhere

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by DakotaDave

It'll be 3-4 years before HD or Blu-Ray takes sole possession of the Home Theater market. The prices are too high for the Average Joe to be able to afford anything Hi-def. Sure HDtv's are selling, but that's only due to the misconseption of the Digital change next year.

What's the point of this?

Just because the masses aren't enjoying HD it means I can't?

Sure, there won't be as many movies released on HD as on SD, but so what?

Why shouldn't I enjoy the HD content that is available?

KM

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by DakotaDave

I like how everyone argues about who's going to win the HD wars, and who out sells whom when SD is still around and still out selling both formats. If you walk in to a Target, or K-Mart all Blu-ray and HD-DVD's are on endcap's, but all the SD's still have a full isle. Not only are they the disks still affordable, but compared to the Blu-ray players; the upconverter players are a hell of a lot more affordable, and do quite a good job.

Agreed.

So I urge anyone who thinks they have to rush out and buy a $300-$400 Blu-Ray player, or a $400-$500 when they final announcement is made; don't waste your money when all you have to do is buy an upconverter player or a Toshiba SD2HD player finally comes out. It will still be tons cheaper, and you can still use your existing library with out upgrading.

Disagree.

(some folks like that extra percentage in video/audio)

[Monrozombi]

you could say the same thing for VHS vs. DVD from 97 up to the early part of the decade. Everyone home just about had a vcr which could play and record movies and tv, so why would anyone want to upgrade to a player only device?

DVD took its time to saturate the market and take over VHS's strong hold, I think places like BB, CC and the like didn't stop selling vhs until 2003/4. The prices for HDTVs are continuing to come down every year so why not take full advantage of the capabilities your new tv has to offer.

People will always buy the newest and brightest toys on the block, maybe not all at once but they'll get there

[Pirate]

I really don't get the upconversion is just as good argument. It's just not the case. Just look at a film like The Adventures of Robin Hood. Look at the colors, look at the detail. These HD formats are the closest we've come to the original 35mm or DLP presentations.

If you can’t see a difference between good upconversion and true HD video, then you either need glasses or a larger display.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Pirate

If you can’t see a difference between good upconversion and true HD video, then you either need glasses or a larger display.

Agreed. Until this weekend I'd never seen a 1:1 comparison on a large screen.

There simply is no comparison. The upconverted SD DVD looked like ass when compared to BRD on a PS3. The difference was shocking, and I didn't think that it would be.

[ganthc]

I must chime in with those that like the upgrade for HD. I will also point out that the audio is vastly different as well. Lossless audio and 1.5mbps audio tracks simply outclass dvd sound. I think that more and more consumers will gravitate towards HD as prices fall and marketing and awareness increase. I can bet you that sales for HT in a box systems have increased within the past few years, as people stop going to theaters and start watching movies at home. The value of the movie ticket has tanked, while the ability to watch movies conveniently at home has risen.

Personally, I rarely go to the movies now as I have invested a lot of money in my HT setup, especially with my upgraded 60A3000 HDTV, and the hd-a35 player. I don't plan on going to the movies unless it's a title I can't wait for on HDM. In the same way, I can hold off watching dvds on certain titles until they come out on HD. I'm still waiting to own 1408 until it's out in HD.

[El Lancito]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Agreed. Until this weekend I'd never seen a 1:1 comparison on a large screen.

There simply is no comparison. The upconverted SD DVD looked like ass when compared to BRD on a PS3. The difference was shocking, and I didn't think that it would be.

I agree that there's a difference, but that seems a bit overstated to me. Is it because my TV is only 42"?

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by El Lancito

I agree that there's a difference, but that seems a bit overstated to me. Is it because my TV is only 42"?

My other HDTV was a 42" kind, and I could definitely tell the difference between dvd and HD. When you start watching all your programming and movies in HD, and then you go back to dvd, it's really very noticeable. It's blurry and there is the edge enhancement issue.

[plissken99]

It does seem to be a build up effect. At first after HD DVD and BRD came along, I thought DVDs still looked ok even at 120". Now when I watch them, the difference massive. Just yesterday, I watched Sin City, remembering it to be a perfect transfer(and it is for DVD)... I was amazed how fuzzy it looked. This is why the number of titles I intend to upgrade to HD have multiplied exponentially. The sooner BD takers over, the better.

[biglyle]

I admit that when I first got HD (hddvd and blu) that the difference from DVD wasnt that pronounced to my eyes (PJ and 102 inch screen). However, now that I have watched movies in HD for 2-3 months I can easily see the difference if I go back now. I really am surprised at how poor most SD dvds look now in comparison. I doubt anyone who has HD for a while could ever go back.

[bembol]

I only made only a few DVD purchases, most were TV Shows. I sold them after I ripped them in my iMac/iPod.

Originally Posted by jbat31

holy crap, where do you find the time and the money.!!!!!!!!!!

seriously though, i understand what he is saying, it will be a long time before sd goes anywhere

Also the titles, to each own but Daddy Day Camp, I Know Who Killed Me.

[firestorm]

Video and audio wise, I see a relationship between the VHS --> DVD transition and the DVD --> HD transition, but I also see a lot of differences.

First, the obvious advantages in size and portability between VHS and DVD. A disc vs. a giant tape. Second, the transport functionality. No more need to rewind, and skipping (not just FFW/RWD) is another huge plus. I know several people who never "saw" an appreciable difference in video quality (to them), but gladly embraced the "no rewind" and small disc format.

I've also never known very many people who spent more than $500 on a TV and fewer still with a TV large enough to fully leverage HD. The biggest TV among my coworkers (that whom I talk to anyway) is a 42" Vizio. HD certainly yields improvements on that size set, but how many people will be completely satisfied with up-converted DVD from 8-10 ft away? 42" seems to be a fairly typical size, and at those distances, 1080p many won't see a perceivable difference over 720p. I bet 480 up-converted looks pretty damn good to most people in that arrangement. That's particularly true of an anamorphic DVD, where 480 lines are recorded within a 16:9 area and not 4:3. I can count the number of people I know who would even entertain the idea of HD-DVD or Bluray on one hand, and I only see 1 or 2 people actually going through with it any time soon.

I can see an HD format gaining enough support to eventually kill off DVD, but I don't see it being as quick and clean cut as VHS to DVD. Even once everybody is forced to pick up a Hi-Def player, I see most people holding onto those old DVDs, and simply playing them in the new player. I know very few double dippers, and, for those who replaced VHS, I see fewer triple dipping.

I guess, the way I see it is, if people don't see an appreciable difference from day 1, they're not going simply go out and buy it. They're not going to buy it, wait to acclimate to the difference, and look back at DVD and say that they now see the difference.

I envision players and media coming down to DVD prices and slowly phasing out DVD, at a slower pace than DVD overtaking VHS. I think it'll depend on how many people acquire HDTVs and see the added value in a Hi Def format, and realize they can leverage that for the mere cost of a player. Also, I don't see much happening until the shelves at the video rental stores transition over the Hi-Def rentals. Most people I know don't buy a whole lot of movies, respectively, and many don't rent enough to use services like Netflix either.

[ganthc]

Last I checked, Blockbuster and Hollywood video still offer VHS. Of course, there will be plenty of people that don't upgrade. But all those j6p'ers will want to watch the Superbowl or March Madness in HD, and prices are dropping more and more on those TVs. Marketing and falling prices on HDM will do the rest to convince people to upgrade.

[sub780lime]

Originally Posted by Derb

So far I've watched 643 HD discs.

Only 2 were on par with their dvd counterparts upconverted..

Which two?

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by sub780lime

Which two?

I would guess, "The Game," and maybe "Stargate".

[No6PackJoe]

Originally Posted by firestorm

. Also, I don't see much happening until the shelves at the video rental stores transition over the Hi-Def rentals. Most people I know don't buy a whole lot of movies, respectively, and many don't rent enough to use services like Netflix either.

I think this is a very important point, I know in my circle of friends very few have more than 10 DVD, but they have had DVD players for years.

J6P's are renters, and many have HD capable sets, they just likes em big for sports and NASCAR.

[Jivin004]

hi everybody, here's another opinion
ok, i think there is a big point made saying dvd replaced vhs in more ways. like common sense, all the statements can't be argued.
HD on the other hand, seems to me like something pretty funny that came about when all the old farts at Sony and such "finally" picked up (in their fashion) on consumer trends, now that they have had three generations of video formats to look at

So what we get is basically a good rear ending as always, in terms of the average 40 year old consumer's psychology, and Enough to Mezmorize:As Cheap Can Make ratio.

That out of the way, I am really wondering what is the next advancement in technology going to be called? "Super Crazy HHHD Versatile Disc"?

and how many years are gonna pass before folks take a sip of their glass of wine thinking "crap, I really enjoyed those Blu Ray discs before this came out".

Lastly, when are these folks gonna realize that things have been called "Super, Hi, Ultra, Crazy Retarted" ever since "COMPRESED" cassette technology came out back in the 70's, and they could have saved (and made) alota cash sticking with their record players

Someone needs to be "un-lazy" enough to actually "haggle" with companies because Core 2 Duo could have been around a long time before its release, and all Windows versions could have been one operating system.

In conclusion, I ponder, if technology has taken such a dramatic leap towards sharing, and people help each other make everything while it is in the process of being created, then why do we still let Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer sit seperately in their Lairs and tell us that we will have a disc that looks like a potato, needs a tomato player, and has n calories?

*Edit* PS. Does anyone have a Laser Disc player? I have stacks of movies including all the Die Hards, a Spielberg collection, all the Francis Coppolas, basically a classic collection, these babies look better than DVDs on my 42", and i'll trade em straight up for something good. Craigslist, Ebay, u name it. *Edit*

[plissken99]

Actually now that the format war is over, I keep hearing that Blu Ray is overtaking DVD at a faster rate than DVD overtook VHS.

Yet another factor to consider is that in the techno world, the atmosphere has changed a great deal from the time DVD was introduced to present. I got a DVD player before a computer. In 97 we weren't as accostumed to the constant upgrade mentality that computers and cell phones have given us, HDTVs themselves were in their infancy.

The public is much more open to the idea of upgrading than they were a mere decade ago. And earlier in this thread, others alluded to the fact that not everyone buys tons of movies, yet have had DVD players for years. This is not really a con for Blu Ray, some people like to have their favorite 10-20 movies, and rent the rest, well they would like those movies in better quality, and can also rent Blu Rays.

Another statement earlier of DakotaDaves that bugged me.

"Sure HDtv's are selling, but that's only due to the misconseption of the Digital change next year."

Not really a missconception per se. The alternatives to upgrading to an HDTV is a convertor box with composite output , or sinking another couple hundred bucks into an out of date tube TV with a digital tuner(which they won't be able to find new very soon).

Oh Jivin004, the answer to your question about whats next? It's called UHDV I think(Ultra High definition video), the Japanese recently devoloped it, it's 16 times the resolution of 1080p. They recorded 18 minutes of video, which took up 3 terrabytes! They hope to be able to set up a broacasting method by 2015. Look to maybe 2025 before it could be available to consumers in a disc or other viable format.

[brian]

Originally Posted by plissken99

In 97 we weren't as accostumed to the constant upgrade mentality that computers and cell phones have given us,

Maybe you weren't accustomed to the upgrade mentality, since you didn't have a computer, but any person with a computer from 1982 and later probably was. The same goes for videogame consoles, Beta to Superbeta, stereo VHS, etc.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by sub780lime

Which two?

28 Days Later (2002) (Blu-Ray)

HD Video - 5/10
HD Audio dts - 9/10

Nutty Professor II: The Klumps (2000) (HD DVD)

HD Video - 5/10
HD Audio Dolby Digital Plus - 8/10
HD Audio Dolby TrueHD - 9/10