War is over, get over it!

[Ruined]

Regarding my now closed "BD Glitch" thread, I have to say that some of the people on this forum are acting quite childish and need to get over the fact that the war is over.

Originally Posted by Derb

Did we have a thread for HD DVD?

I'd say that deserved one more so than BD. Heck Tons & tons of discs wouldn't play "Properly" on any of the Toshiba model players.

Yes we had one for HD DVD as you will see below. But even so it would be difficult to label some of the other discs that had playback problems aside from the ones in the link below (like Children of Men for instance) as problem discs since in almost all of the cases player firmware updates fixed the issue without requiring disc replacement or other action by the studio. In fact, it is still unclear to this day with some of those discs whether they were disc or player issues or both. Either way, a replacement disc was not necessary in most cases, hence they were not discs that needed to be avoided necessarily.

Originally Posted by ganthc

No. Because if you look at the author of this thread and the admin who stickied it, you would know why one was never created.

Hmm... Missed this one I guess:
http://forums.dvdfile.com/high-defin...tml#post777598

There is even a Blu-ray glitch thread in the Glitch area. But nope, we need it prominently stickied on this thread.

Lol. The Glitch area has one thread and it has not even 1/5th of the information of my post - plus it has already been bumped off the list because it was not kept up to date. Yeah, I'm sure that will be real helpful to people just getting into Blu-ray now.

After all, we didn't learn that 3rd generation HD-DVD players were poor quality until after the format lost. Then suddenly Ruined was more forthcoming.

Gee, could that maybe be because the format lost like 2 months after the 3rd generation came out? It took time to see that some people were having issues with 3rd gen units. Also, I never said the 3rd gen was "poor quality," but my unit did break. Still that does not make them poor quality on the whole. Not everything in the world is a pro-HD DVD or anti-Bluray conspiracy.

People need to realize that not everything is an attack on Blu-ray, and they don't need to be so defensive and cover up problem discs like they don't exist because they think it will hurt Blu-ray in some bizarre way.

I also see some being dishonest about what is and is not possible/probable through BD-Live downloads on other threads. If you ever owned some of the later internet-enabled HD DVDs like Transformers, Shrek 3, etc, you know exactly the scope of and which direction these BD-Live features will go (as they will be authored by the same places that did the HD DVD discs) and you'd also know that "online extras" very well often include features you'd traditionally find even on a standard DVD disc (such as pop-up trivia tracks, downloadable featurettes, trailers, etc). I see the vehement denial of these shortcomings of 1.1 player as an overcompensation to the attack on BD profiles that was made before the war was over. But the war is over, so get over it! It is no longer an attack on BD but rather smart advice to those thinking of buying in to give the players a bit more time to mature to the final spec 2.0. I would not go on advising those who like extras in any capacity to buy a 1.1 player as they will likely be missing out on traditional extras - not just ringtones - on future BD-Live discs. If you don't like extras or don't care about them, fine, BD 1.1 is dandy. But you will most definitely be missing out with a BD1.1 player if BD-Live gets near the level HD DVD was before it got toasted; so instead of advising a person who likes extras to buy a BD1.1 player and then buy another player a year from now, why not just advise them to wait for a BD2.0 player like the Panasonic BD50 or either of the upcoming Sony players. That is a smarter move and only requires a couple of months patience as there is virtually no price difference between 1.1 and 2.0...

Discussion of other HD technologies like downloads, VOD, flash memory, etc also shouldn't result in cries of foul play. People can get HD via a variety of ways, and this is simple reality and also not necessarily an attack on BD.

In short...

[Moonraker]

I would have liked the Glitch thread to stay open as it is informative.

I also don't agree with the closing of this thread

Blu-ray Disc Sales Gain Ground on DVD.

While his past postings have been one sided and flame bait, this one particular is an interesting topic to follow.

[ganthc]

You seriously created a thread on this?

You dog the thread in the glitch area that hadn't had a post since February 2008, and then you defend your position with a thread you let expire in July 2006?

Bottom line is that when information against blu-ray comes from your avatar, it's no surprise what the point of the thread is. If you wanted to, you could have posted that in the obvious Glitch thread, and then referred to it in the software thread. You could even have the mod sticky the thread in the Glitch area...you could have Taxi do it right now. There was no need to create one in the software section and have it stickied when there is an entire forum for such things.

And I don't think many on the bd side have been disingenuous at all with regard to the bd-live stuff. I own Transformers and Heroes on hd-dvd and have yet to watch any of the internet stuff. I barely watched any of the hdi stuff either, with the exception of Batman Begins, and Fast and the Furious 3, upon your recommendation. To me, all of it seemed very gimmicky, with content that was cheesy (like ooo, I can see the GPS of where you are, or how much that particular car crash would have cost...brought to you by Progressive), or it was content that could just have easily been put as a special feature on another disc or with bd-50, as a normal special feature. The pip stuff really isn't that profound to me.

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I have to say that some of the people on this forum are acting quite childish and need to get over the fact that the war is over.

and some should go shopping for a mirror.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

I would have liked the Glitch thread to stay open as it is informative.

I also don't agree with the closing of this thread

Blu-ray Disc Sales Gain Ground on DVD.

While his past postings have been one sided and flame bait, this one particular is an interesting topic to follow.

While it wasn't stated as the reason for closing, I think it was shut down because that article was already being discussed in another thread.

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by ganthc

While it wasn't stated as the reason for closing, I think it was shut down because that article was already being discussed in another thread.

Oh I didn't see that.

[ganthc]

THX Chief Scientist: "It's too late for Blu-ray"

Yeah, it was mentioned here twice. Not very prominent for such an article, but it fit well for the discussion that was going on in that thread.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

You seriously created a thread on this?

You dog the thread in the glitch area that hadn't had a post since February 2008, and then you defend your position with a thread you let expire in July 2006?

#1, I am not a mod and cannot sticky or move threads. That thread was created in the forum that was subsequently closed and archived. Even if I wanted to bump it later I could not have.

#2 Looking at the thread, there is little more information to add. The point is to post problem discs... What additional HD DVD discs could you add that you could confirm was a disc problem and not an issue with Toshiba or their HD DVDROM optical drives? Virtually all the HD DVDs aside from the ones I posted that had playback problems were fixed with player firmware upgrades, so who knows who was really to blame? If they were strict disc issues you would think you'd need a new disc, not a new player firmware to fix the problem. And, if you recall, many of those same discs played fine on HD-A1 players (which had NEC ROM drives), only having issues on Toshiba-made ROM drives - again, which was fixed with an update to those players. If you are just referring to player glitch issues I could post numerous more BD discs such as Sunshine or RE:Extinction but since those appear to be player issues they were not mentioned.

Bottom line is that when information against blu-ray comes from your avatar, it's no surprise what the point of the thread is. If you wanted to, you could have posted that in the obvious Glitch thread,

You mean, the one you just had to bump (conveniently after my glitch posting) because it had fallen off the forum list due to inactivity? That doesn't seem to obvious to me, you know it being invisible and all.

and then referred to it in the software thread. You could even have the mod sticky the thread in the Glitch area...you could have Taxi do it right now. There was no need to create one in the software section and have it stickied when there is an entire forum for such things.

I don't really care where it is stickied. The glitch subforum is dead and frankly I didn't even know it still existed. The post you referred to wasn't even listed in that forum until you bumped it back from the dead after I posted my glitch thread.

And I don't think many on the bd side have been disingenuous at all with regard to the bd-live stuff. I own Transformers and Heroes on hd-dvd and have yet to watch any of the internet stuff.

Well then I guess you are not really in the place to comment what type of features are on those particular releases then, eh?

I barely watched any of the hdi stuff either, with the exception of Batman Begins, and Fast and the Furious 3, upon your recommendation. To me, all of it seemed very gimmicky, with content that was cheesy (like ooo, I can see the GPS of where you are, or how much that particular car crash would have cost...brought to you by Progressive), or it was content that could just have easily been put as a special feature on another disc or with bd-50, as a normal special feature. The pip stuff really isn't that profound to me.

Again, if you had checked out the latest web-interactive HD DVDs (2nd half of 2007) you would have seen that many of the downloadable features were things like trivia tracks, additional scenes/content, pilot episodes, trailers - stuff that would easily have been put on the disc but WASN'T. Because it wasn't ready, or they wanted to advertise it as an online feature. Just like the BD Walk Hard featurettes. Are you saying they couldn't fit 3 mini-featurettes on the 75GB Walk Hard Blu-ray set? Or a 30mb trivia track on the Shrek 3 HD DVD? Of course not, but they wanted to promote the BD-Live/online technology aspect of the disc to sell more copies, so they became online exclusive. With all PS3s now being profile 2.0 compliant and many eagerly anticipating the Panasonic BD50 BD-Live and Sony BD-Live standalone players, I don't think the minority who owns BD1.0/BD1.1 players will really be a huge sticking point for many studios. Sure, the movie will continue to work but I doubt that studios will cripple their marketing and not put "offline" features as downloads in order to bolster sales and leverage BD-Live technology just so BD1.0/1.1 players can see the extra content. Like I said, it has already happened within the first couple of BD-Live discs announced and happened many times with HD DVD, I expect it to happen many times in the future.

Regardless of whether something fits on a disc or not and regardless of whether it would otherwise work on a BD1.1 player, it will not matter if the supplement is not ready by pressing time or if the studio wants to advertise it as a "BD-Live" feature. This is obvious IMO, as it has already happened within the first few BD-Live discs released.

[Derb]

I poored a crap load of cash into HD DVD & now that it is dead I even went out knowing this & bought an HD-A35 model Toshiba player.

Is it true that all 3 trims are garbage or are some here just having problems? Hows the AVS crowd with regard to these players? (Don't want to check)

The war is over................

Fine.

Now I just want to know if my brand new 3rd generation HD DVD player will work once my 2nd generation player craps out.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Derb

I poored a crap load of cash into HD DVD & now that it is dead I even went out knowing this & bought an HD-A35 model Toshiba player.

Is it true that all 3 trims are garbage or are some here just having problems? Hows the AVS crowd with regard to these players? (Don't want to check)

The war is over................

Fine.

Now I just want to know if my brand new 3rd generation HD DVD player will work once my 2nd generation player craps out.

I don't know of any widespread problem with the A35, but it does not seem to be any more reliable than the previous generation despite its less complex chip layout. My only comments on it were that mine broke, and that the DVD upconverting is significantly worse than the HD-XA2 since the A35 doesn't have Reon. Also, the A35 is slower than the HD-A2/A20/XA2 at recognizing and starting disc playback.

[powerknowledge]

For what it's worth, I'd also like to see the glitch thread unlocked. It was a useful resource that unfortunately got highjacked and transformed into yet another forum for technophile identity politics. Kind of like every other thread here lately. So please, mods/admins: clean out all but the posts relevant to the thread's title if you like, but please bring it back to life. To not do so both denies a really useful resource and, to be honest, smacks a bit of "behind the curtain" motivations for closing it as opposed to the countless other derailed, sniping threads. I'm not taking sides here: I find this all more than a bit silly (I mean, let's have a reality check here, folks: a bunch of intelligent adults, in a world with so many pressing concerns large and small, and THIS is what we'll get up in arms about?). But at the end of the day there is no reason for that thread to not be open, updated, and discussed. THAT kind of resource is what this site is, and should continue to be, about.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by powerknowledge

For what it's worth, I'd also like to see the glitch thread unlocked. It was a useful resource that unfortunately got highjacked and transformed into yet another forum for technophile identity politics. Kind of like every other thread here lately. So please, mods/admins: clean out all but the posts relevant to the thread's title if you like, but please bring it back to life. To not do so both denies a really useful resource and, to be honest, smacks a bit of "behind the curtain" motivations for closing it as opposed to the countless other derailed, sniping threads. I'm not taking sides here: I find this all more than a bit silly (I mean, let's have a reality check here, folks: a bunch of intelligent adults, in a world with so many pressing concerns large and small, and THIS is what we'll get up in arms about?). But at the end of the day there is no reason for that thread to not be open, updated, and discussed. THAT kind of resource is what this site is, and should continue to be, about.

http://forums.dvdfile.com/glitch-exh...-new-post.html

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

#1, I am not a mod and cannot sticky or move threads. That thread was created in the forum that was subsequently closed and archived. Even if I wanted to bump it later I could not have.

A simple PM would have fixed that. You are not excused from being biased at pointing out the faults more on one side than the other. The leopard has not changed his spots.

#2 Looking at the thread, there is little more information to add. The point is to post problem discs... What additional HD DVD discs could you add that you could confirm was a disc problem and not an issue with Toshiba or their HD DVDROM optical drives? Virtually all the HD DVDs aside from the ones I posted that had playback problems were fixed with player firmware upgrades, so who knows who was really to blame? If they were strict disc issues you would think you'd need a new disc, not a new player firmware to fix the problem. And, if you recall, many of those same discs played fine on HD-A1 players (which had NEC ROM drives), only having issues on Toshiba-made ROM drives - again, which was fixed with an update to those players. If you are just referring to player glitch issues I could post numerous more BD discs such as Sunshine or RE:Extinction but since those appear to be player issues they were not mentioned.

I've said that I don't mind you posting that there are issues with things. I wouldn't have a problem with you doing it the way Taxi suggested by posting it in threads regarding those particular movies. I think it's the full scope of your posting patterns, Ruined, and the continual anti-blu-ray stance that continues to come from you, whether it be to encourage regression to lossy DVD formats to promote HD content or with skipping the current HD disc format for Microsoft downloads. When hd-dvd was the darling, there could be no other way for HD to be used by consumers. Now that it's dead, you seem to want any other way to win but blu-ray. I'm not the only one that notices this.

You mean, the one you just had to bump (conveniently after my glitch posting) because it had fallen off the forum list due to inactivity? That doesn't seem to obvious to me, you know it being invisible and all.

The reason I knew it was there was because it was the last post made in that forum, so it was the thread that showed in the last post column in the main dvdfile page. I bumped it to make it active again, but it has still been the last thread that was used in the Glitch forum for months. It was clear that it was there to me. All you had to do was click on the link from the main page. Don't tell me you never use the last post column from the main page.

I don't really care where it is stickied. The glitch subforum is dead and frankly I didn't even know it still existed. The post you referred to wasn't even listed in that forum until you bumped it back from the dead after I posted my glitch thread.

It was listed as the last post in that forum. Hover your mouse over the link, and it was clearly about Blu-ray glitches. This was even before my bump of the thread.

Well then I guess you are not really in the place to comment what type of features are on those particular releases then, eh?

Okay, maybe not. But I did read about them to know whether they were worth bothering with, and I determined they weren't. And in general, special features are not what I buy movies for, so you are probably right in that maybe I'm not a fair judge on that.

Again, if you had checked out the latest web-interactive HD DVDs (2nd half of 2007) you would have seen that many of the downloadable features were things like trivia tracks, additional scenes/content, pilot episodes, trailers - stuff that would easily have been put on the disc but WASN'T. Because it wasn't ready, or they wanted to advertise it as an online feature. Just like the BD Walk Hard featurettes. Are you saying they couldn't fit 3 mini-featurettes on the 75GB Walk Hard Blu-ray set? Or a 30mb trivia track on the Shrek 3 HD DVD? Of course not, but they wanted to promote the BD-Live/online technology aspect of the disc to sell more copies, so they became online exclusive. With all PS3s now being profile 2.0 compliant and many eagerly anticipating the Panasonic BD50 BD-Live and Sony BD-Live standalone players, I don't think the minority who owns BD1.0/BD1.1 players will really be a huge sticking point for many studios. Sure, the movie will continue to work but I doubt that studios will cripple their marketing and not put "offline" features as downloads in order to bolster sales and leverage BD-Live technology just so BD1.0/1.1 players can see the extra content. Like I said, it has already happened within the first couple of BD-Live discs announced and happened many times with HD DVD, I expect it to happen many times in the future.

Regardless of whether something fits on a disc or not and regardless of whether it would otherwise work on a BD1.1 player, it will not matter if the supplement is not ready by pressing time or if the studio wants to advertise it as a "BD-Live" feature. This is obvious IMO, as it has already happened within the first few BD-Live discs released.

I understand, and there were "cool features" that were included in DVD-ROM during the dvd days. Who goes to those things anymore, or for that matter if they use the web, how many are still active? The real question is whether consumers will go to the trouble of watching these features. Or whether they will just as soon have them included on the discs.

I am not denying that the interactivity stuff might get more refined in the future, or that people shouldn't get 2.0 profile players over the current models, but there isn't the justification at this point in time to make it a deciding factor. I agree though that people should get the latest bd players if only to make sure that they have the most features for their players. As for me, I think the ps3 will keep up for quite some time.

[powerknowledge]

Originally Posted by Pirate

http://forums.dvdfile.com/glitch-exh...-new-post.html

Yes, but that lacks the organized information present in the closed thread, and only touches on a small handful of titles. If that's how/where things have to be, then the info from the first post of the closed thread should be shuttled over to that one. MHO.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by powerknowledge

Yes, but that lacks the organized information present in the closed thread, and only touches on a small handful of titles. If that's how/where things have to be, then the info from the first post of the closed thread should be shuttled over to that one. MHO.

Perhaps the mods can merge Ruined's thread with Mighty Mint's thread in the glitch forum.

[powerknowledge]

Originally Posted by ganthc

Perhaps the mods can merge Ruined's thread with Mighty Mint's thread in the glitch forum.

Perhaps...and also, perhaps, a thread name change? "The glitch" sounds like it denotes a common problem across BRDs; here, too, Ruined's thread title is more accurate and useful. I think a merge would be fine, but still fail to see why Ruined's extant thread -- which (no offense, Mighty Mint!) contains ALL of the info in Mighty Mint's but is FAR better organized, with MUCH more, and up-to-date, information -- can't simply be reinstated as THE BR glitch thread, either in its present place or in the Glitch exhaust.

[mighty mint]

Originally Posted by powerknowledge

Perhaps...and also, perhaps, a thread name change? "The glitch" sounds like it denotes a common problem across BRDs; here, too, Ruined's thread title is more accurate and useful. I think a merge would be fine, but still fail to see why Ruined's extant thread -- which (no offense, Mighty Mint!) contains ALL of the info in Mighty Mint's but is FAR better organized, with MUCH more, and up-to-date, information -- can't simply be reinstated as THE BR glitch thread, either in its present place or in the Glitch exhaust.

No offense taken PK. I was simply starting a thread that I thought would be helpful for those of us who hadn't become EAs but would like to enter into the HD forum soon. Even with SDs I avoid the discs flagged with issues so I definitely would want to do that with the more expensive HD discs.

I, for one, feel like a little kid happy that Ruined and ganthc are once again bickering in an open forum...it's like mommy and daddy have reunited once again. Time for the kissy kissy and make-up session you two

[powerknowledge]

Originally Posted by mighty mint

No offense taken PK. I was simply starting a thread that I thought would be helpful for those of us who hadn't become EAs but would like to enter into the HD forum soon. Even with SDs I avoid the discs flagged with issues so I definitely would want to do that with the more expensive HD discs.

I, for one, feel like a little kid happy that Ruined and ganthc are once again bickering in an open forum...it's like mommy and daddy have reunited once again. Time for the kissy kissy and make-up session you two

Glad to hear no offense taken. What? No offense taken? When none was meant? Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick, what kind of forum is this?

And so long as the kissy kissy make-up session doesn't end with any of us walking into mommy and daddy's bedroom to see mommy and daddy "wrestling", I'm fine with a little love being spread.

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Regarding my now closed "BD Glitch" thread, I have to say that some of the people on this forum are acting quite childish and need to get over the fact that the war is over.

Originally Posted by biglyle

and some should go shopping for a mirror.

I know. I thought.."you've got to be kidding me." The irony is hilarious .When I saw the title, I thought for a split second it was going to be a thread apologizing for spreading fud. And how he wasn't going to be pushing downloads, video on demand, upconverts, super duper upconverts, BD+ crack software, flash sticks, Xbox Live, pay per view, stories from Grandma or anything else he can think of besides Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by Ruined

Discussion of other HD technologies like downloads, VOD, flash memory, etc also shouldn't result in cries of foul play. People can get HD via a variety of ways, and this is simple reality and also not necessarily an attack on BD.

These technologies are not High Definition. But you always manage to post about standard definition material in the high definition forum and downplay the difference. Even though you were gung ho for HD-DVD.

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by Mikado

These technologies are not High Definition. But you always manage to post about standard definition material in the high definition forum and downplay the difference. Even though you were gung ho for HD-DVD.

You are quite mistaken. I have HD on demand, and you can download HD movies from Apple TV. It's just a matter of time before other medium mature. 32GB flash cards are a reality, with 64G and 128G not to far away. I can easily see a kiosk in a retail location where you go in, buy a flash card ( or bring your own, ) and pay $5 to download a movie. $8 for the HD verson. If that becomes a reality, I'll be all over that.

j