Microsoft never backed HD DVD, all about digital distribution...

[biglyle]

I like going to blockbuster. I look picking up the cases and reading the backs, just browsing through all the titles. I have had on demand available to me for 3 years and have never used it for a single show or movie.

[venetian blinds]

"Heck, just standing up is a massive pain in the ass. "

one word: participaction.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by biglyle

I like going to blockbuster. I look picking up the cases and reading the backs, just browsing through all the titles. I have had on demand available to me for 3 years and have never used it for a single show or movie.

Right, because the interface and available info on your VOD probably sucks. Once that a company refines it, it should offer a similar experience to Blockbuster - or even better since you could watch preview trailers of the movie you are about to rent.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Right, because the interface and available info on your VOD probably sucks. Once that a company refines it, it should offer a similar experience to Blockbuster - or even better since you could watch preview trailers of the movie you are about to rent.

Exactly. Again, I use Steam as an example... Each game has its own page, each page filled with info and options. It displays the game's metacritic score with a link to read the reviews... it has a linked forum for the game, talking about impressions and tech issues... it has HD trailers, a demo most of the time, info and tech specs, download size, AND pictures and feature lists similar to the "back of the box."

If you don't think that's better than the Blockbuster game rental aisle, you're insane.

So again, all it will take is a similar service for movies, whichever company makes the next iTunes or Steam, this time for movies.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by venetian blinds

"Heck, just standing up is a massive pain in the ass. "

one word: participaction.

oops.

Digital downloads for or against? Hmm, I'll get back to that one in a minute...

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I'd take 720p & DD5.1 for the convenience... I'd even take 480p & DD5.1 if it was a comedy. Downloading it instead of going through the typical hassles of renting in person or by mail is a huge bonus.

Hmm.....

Yep, I disagree. If we have rental avenues that are just as convenient as picking our movies and putting them in a queue and checking our mail to get the movies we want, and without having to sacrifice the quality of our movie rentals, then I think the tradeoff is too much.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by ganthc

If we have rental avenues that are just as convenient as picking our movies and putting them in a queue and checking our mail to get the movies we want, and without having to sacrifice the quality of our movie rentals, then I think the tradeoff is too much.

I'll go with that yet add that some (probably not that many) like me have PO Boxes. I usually get my mail via the 2 mile trip once a week. I know, I'm nitpicking.

Either way, downloading will eventually be the norm but it's a longgggg way off me thinks.

[Sehnzeleid]

I was thinking and even though this is extremely hypothetical, what would happen if different VOD providers gained exclusive titles or studios, sorta like what happened with HD DVD and BD? Or like Verizon Wireless and iTunes?

It would absolutely friggin' suck to have to have two (or more) VOD providers to have access to "everything".

Though another thing is what does "everything" constitute? Will providers have the huge amount of obscure titles available on DVD? Jungle Holocaust? Garden of the Dead? Young Hannah and the Vampires? What about indie films on DVD available only through a filmmaker's website?

I doubt it. These are the types of content that fill my DVD collection. I don't really have a lot of "mainstream" content. I find myself buying more mainstream stuff with Blu-ray (and HD DVD) because, as with DVD, I can sell it if I wish.

That's another thing, you buy a DVD for $15 and find you don't like it so you sell it to someone for $7 to at least make some of the cost back. What will people do with VOD? Hit the delete button with no hope of recouping any of their initial investment. That's bullshit, but I guess most people would rather have these freedoms taken away to shave some seconds off of actually having to do something. Just sit back and tap the little buttons while watching your perspective ever narrow.

"ZOMG! Sister Act 2 in 720p and DD5.1 is just a button click away! And it's FREEEEEE!!!"

It also doesn't make ANY sense that we have finally a video format that represents a HUGE step forward in home theater with studios really trying and yet we still have people seemingly wanting to settle for less and bickering about a possible future filled with something worse than what we have currently despite this awesome format that exists RIGHT NOW.

BLU-RAY: IT'S AWESOME, DAMMIT. SHO'NUFF.™

[Sehnzeleid]

Hopefully I made my point clear.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Hopefully I made my point clear.

Yes you did. Now go get more beer cause a you dun drank all mine!

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

I was thinking and even though this is extremely hypothetical, what would happen if different VOD providers gained exclusive titles or studios, sorta like what happened with HD DVD and BD? Or like Verizon Wireless and iTunes?

iTunes has pretty much everything, so I don't know what you mean here... In any event it would be the same as HD DVD and BD, they would fight for a while, one service would get a lot more sales, then the companies would all go to the one selling more.

That's another thing, you buy a DVD for $15 and find you don't like it so you sell it to someone for $7 to at least make some of the cost back. What will people do with VOD? Hit the delete button with no hope of recouping any of their initial investment. That's bullshit, but I guess most people would rather have these freedoms taken away to shave some seconds off of actually having to do something. Just sit back and tap the little buttons while watching your perspective ever narrow.

I'm not "giving up freedoms" I am weighing the benefits of both and making a decision. Yes, a lack of resale is one bad thing about digital distribution, but there are enough great things about it to counter that for me, and obviously for tons of other people (iTunes, Steam).

It also doesn't make ANY sense that we have finally a video format that represents a HUGE step forward in home theater with studios really trying and yet we still have people seemingly wanting to settle for less and bickering about a possible future filled with something worse than what we have currently despite this awesome format that exists RIGHT NOW.

How the hell is BD a "HUGE" step forward? It looks better on an HDTV... has lossless sound for the 5 people who care... that's it. That's the only real benefit. Joe and Sally from down the street go to Wal-Mart and the only thing BD offers them is slightly better picture and sound if they have the equipment for it, which they probably don't. Not HUGE at all, nowhere near the step from VHS to DVD.

Dowloads though... will look better (720P), will never break, will not clutter your house with useless packaging, are very portable (take your whole movie collection on vacation), and are instantly owned or rented at the click of a button. THAT is where the HUGE advancement is.

[chlngr1970]

So, I went through the story, and read most of the posts here. All I can say, is conspiracy theorists unite. There are only a few people that will ever know what happened behind closed doors, and sadly, I will probably never be one of them. It is fun to speculate about what really happened, and all that, but lets be realistic. Some blogger who heard some MS "exec" say something, is far from the definitive truth.

j

[Jast3r Rogu3]

Originally Posted by Shadowman82

Typical Microsoft . Unfortunatly for them and they obviously won't admit it they weren't able to draw out the war long enough to weaken HD on disc (now Blu-ray) enough for them to have a better chance when they do launch HD movies as downloads .

So microsoft goes from one dead horse (hd dvd) to another (digital downloads).
lmao.

[billnye97]

Originally Posted by Jast3r Rogu3

So microsoft goes from one dead horse (hd dvd) to another (digital downloads).
lmao.

Jast3r I just love all of your posts. So insightful with your blatant Sony bias. God knows Sony can do no wrong.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by billnye97

Jast3r I just love all of your posts. So insightful with your blatant Sony bias. God knows Sony can do no wrong.

Ban didn't last long enough IMO.

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

THAT is where the HUGE advancement is.

...until the hardware dies or your provider folds and you finally realize you've thrown money towards nothing that's tangible.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

...until the hardware dies or your provider folds and you finally realize you've thrown money towards nothing that's tangible.

If it is renting, who cares? You "throw away money" when you rent from blockbuster too, 'cause you can't keep the tape permanently, right?

But isn't it possible we are throwing away even more money buying a physical format at a jacked-up price like BD is at now? Think of it this way. Right now buying has its advantage because you get to build a collection which you can browse, sort, and examine to your heart's content. But what if a download service offered the same thing?

What if highres covers/backs were scanned in, and the movie's info was all linked together IMDB-style, sortable in near-limitless ways? This is not a far stretch, this is what will eventually happen.

So you will lose that browse advantage eventually, and it will actually be much easier to browse, sort, and find a movie via the online download store. Not to mention they could make recommendations of other movies you might like that are similar to ones you've rented and rated highly, something your movie collection can't do.

What is left is the cost factor. A Blu-ray costs $20-$28 on average. A download is $5. Just in order to break even on your Blu-ray investment, you need to watch the movie in question 4-6 times. In order to make your purchase economically sound, you need to watch the movie up to 6+ times. How many movies have you realistically done that with? 10? 20? 50 at most, I'd say, if you are a hardcore film watcher.

Now look at your 500+ collection of movies and see how much money was "thrown away" on the other 450 titles you could have rented, but bought instead because you wanted them to be browsable and at your fingertips in your library. Downloads will eventually enable that in a more efficient manner than physical media and at far lower costs through rentals. But since you bought them, you essentially "threw away" $5000-$10000, assuming you only watched them once or twice.

Yes, the Blu-rays look better than the downloads, and probably always will. But I don't think the difference between 720p/DD5.1 is large enough that J6P will forgo both convenience, space-saving, and cost just to get 1080p and lossless sound (the latter of which is arguably a marketing gimmick based on the minute differences in sound quality). J6P will have the collection-browsing aspect he enjoys of DVD with the lower price and convenience of download rentals.

I believe that is where Moog is going. I see the market in the future switching from a buy-model to a primarily rent model via downloads. All that needs to happen is that a company needs to get the magic formula right and deliver a device that is simply enough for J6P to use but feature-packed enough that cinemaphiles will jump on the bandwagon too. That box is most definitely coming, the real question is what company will be able to market themselves to the top first?

[chlngr1970]

This is where the studios want to go. They don't want you to have a physical copy of the movie at all. They have been trying this since the early days of DVD with Divx, why would they stop now, specialy with high rez copies of their films out in the wild.

Fear of piracy will always drive the studios to limit your ability to watch films at home.

j

[Sehnzeleid]

Originally Posted by Ruined

If it is renting, who cares? You "throw away money" when you rent from blockbuster too, 'cause you can't keep the tape permanently, right?

No, because I haven't rented a movie in over a decade after my "local" Blockbuster a good seven-eight miles away put the video store a mile away from my home out of business.

[videoworx]

What is left is the cost factor. A Blu-ray costs $20-$28 on average. A download is $5. Just in order to break even on your Blu-ray investment, you need to watch the movie in question 4-6 times.

I've sold hundreds of DVDs after watching once or twice, many for profit. Many of my recent BD purchases were at no additional cost to me, because I traded in old DVDs.

Where can I trade in/sell a digital download?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

I've sold hundreds of DVDs after watching once or twice, many for profit. Many of my recent BD purchases were at no additional cost to me, because I traded in old DVDs.

Looking at eBay, most of the DVDs I paid $20 for the first few years DVD was out are now selling for 1/4 of that value. I don't think there is much profit to be made there. Also, if you are suggesting buying a movie from the store, watching it a couple of times, and then selling it on eBay is somehow a more streamlined, practical, and user friendly solution that download rentals you lost me on that one.

Where can I trade in/sell a digital download?

You don't have to, because you pay 1/4 - 1/6th of the price than you would in buying it to watch it and then its gone after 24-48hrs, just like any other rental. The main difference with downloads vs traditional store & mail rentals is that you could still have the "browse," "collection," and "sort" advantages of a physical media collectioh while taking up a lot less space, costing you a lot less in the long run, and convenience of near instant gratification of the movie you wish to view just a few button clicks away. We just need the right download box and software for this to happen, and I think it will be a boon to movie lovers everywhere.

There are still a lot of favorites I'd prefer to own on Blu-ray, but I think I'd rent most of my movies once such a system is released. I think both could coexist, as they address two different markets - buy vs. rent.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

...until the hardware dies or your provider folds and you finally realize you've thrown money towards nothing that's tangible.

First, as Ruined said, this idea would mainly be centered around renting. Secondly, if you get into digital devlivery, you should be smart enough to have a backup file, and even if you don't most services allow you to redownload your purchases...

I'm not gonna go look it up, but Sony made some comment the other day that 90% of video games will be delivered digitally in 10 years. This is the so-called founder of Blu-Ray talking plainly about digital downloads being the future. Will it happen in games quicker than movies? Sure... which is funny, because games are bigger files. This just shows it's all about demographics and knowledge.

As soon as a company invents the right kind of hardware with the right kind of interface movie downloads/digital rentals will EXPLODE. Thinking otherwise is being extremely naive. I'm sure there's a well-funded group out there working on it right now, ready to become the Steam of movies, the iTunes of movie rentals. They're working on maximum download speeds and a proper pricing model, the right kind of interface and how to get PC and TV to work together... They're smart people, I'm sure, and you'll be seeing their work everywhere someday.