BDA needs to develop a 3-D "profile," and soon!

[Ruined]

Blu-ray looks like it will have everything in the long run to satisfy home theater enthusiasts with one exception - 3-D!

I am not talking about the crappy anaglyph red/blue glasses, but rather the newer technologies we are seeing in theaters. With consumer HDTVs now shipping at 120hz refresh rate, the hardware is there to do 3-D on home TVs - even if it is something like Wireless LCD shutterglasses, that is better than nothing.

Reason I am bringing this up is because 2 years ago 3-D was a gimmick you saw every once and a while. But now with movies like Beowulf and Disney making a good chunk of their animations 3-D, a real market is developing for 3D content. As film viewers we are missing out on how the movie was originally intended to be watched. I have heard Beowulf in 2-D is crap compared to the theatrical 3-D presentation.

Blu-ray has the bandwidth and the space to dedicate to a true 3-D presentation in full color. This needs to be incorporated into the format ASAP imo, otherwise manufacturers will shy away from releasing 3-D discs due to most hardware not supporting it.

I know Mistu is developing a 3-D BD player, but again there is no standard. Without a standard we won't be able to get 3-D versions of movies. And 3-D is much more enticing to J6P than simply higher quality video - in fact that is why theaters are warming up to it, it is bringing people back to the movies. I would hate to invest all this money in Blu-ray just to have it replaced by a true 3-D format a few years from now... Thoughts?

[Pirate]

They're already releasing Blu-rays in 3D using, I assume, the red/blue method:

Disney Unveils Specs, Bundles Glasses with 3-D 'Hannah Montana' Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

Also, I don't know how real this is, but:

Mitsubishi planning 3D Blu-ray player for early 2008 | Crave : The gadget blog

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

They're already releasing Blu-rays in 3D using, I assume, the red/blue method:

Disney Unveils Specs, Bundles Glasses with 3-D 'Hannah Montana' Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

Also, I don't know how real this is, but:

Mitsubishi planning 3D Blu-ray player for early 2008 | Crave : The gadget blog

I'm aware of those two methods. The former red/blue anaglyph method was also used on standard DVD in The Nightmare on Elm Street collection as well as Oxygene remastered. But because the lens are red and blue it destroys the color of the image.

Mitsubishi's effort is more in line of what I am talking about, but without a BD standard discs will not be authored for it. Studios need to know what format to encode, what method to use, etc. The Mitsu player looks like it will only be used to make 2D movies look more 3D, which again is not true 3D. Mitsu's 3-D player will sort of be like the "Prologic" compared to true 5.1, except for 3-D if you know what I mean.

For true full color 3-D we need a Blu-ray standard as it will require special encoding on the discs. I think this is worth breaking compatibility for, as if there is no provision for it I believe it is a virtual guarantee that BD will be outdated in the not-so-distant future by a 3-D format.

The bandwidth/space and capability is there... use it! Let's get a 3-D profile so we don't have to rebuy all the new 3-D movies like Beowulf in true 3-D!

[biglyle]

Shouldn't Microsoft be working hard at this instead, since downloads are the next big thing and all?

[Pirate]

I thought the new 3D needed two projectors running at various frame rates or something. Will this require new HDTV's?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by biglyle

Shouldn't Microsoft be working hard at this instead, since downloads are the next big thing and all?

I don't think downloads have the bandwidth to do 3D, though they could probably pull it off at 720p and increasing file size by 40%.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I thought the new 3D needed two projectors running at various frame rates or something. Will this require new HDTV's?

Not necessarily. The wireless LCD shutterglasses method does not require new HDTVs, it should work fine with current 120hz HDTVs. Other methods might, but even then I'd like to see it added to BD as soon as possible so we can get the 3D technology out there for CEs to build around.

[Pirate]

With so many 3D movies hitting theatres, it’ll be an interesting hurtle for the home video market to overcome.

While I think 3D is neat, I’ve yet to really be blown away by it. I’d love to see a film really utilize it for it’s story, but so far it’s been the same "look at my spear!" or "oh my god, flying debris!" gimmicks of the past. Although, as silly as it already was, I suppose Beowulf would be far sillier in 2D, so I guess the technology does have some use.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Pirate

With so many 3D movies hitting theatres, it’ll be an interesting hurtle for the home video market to overcome.

While I think 3D is neat, I’ve yet to really be blown away by it. I’d love to see a film really utilize it for it’s story, but so far it’s been the same "look at my spear!" or "oh my god, flying debris!" gimmicks of the past. Although, as silly as it already was, I suppose Beowulf would be far sillier in 2D, so I guess the technology does have some use.

Nightmare Before XMAS was awesome in 3D...

[Pirate]

I think Lucas is still planning Star Wars in 3D, as well as that new Clone Wars cartoon. That should be fun, maybe.

[Wirehed]

Oh.

NONONONONO.

We do not want to encourage this kind of filmmaking. No.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

Oh.

NONONONONO.

We do not want to encourage this kind of filmmaking. No.

Why? The new 3-D systems in theaters actually don't give you a headache... While not EVERY movie should be 3-D, I would like to see 3-D movies now and then.

[Wirehed]

I get that the technology is cool.
And I've been to my share of 3D movies.


But it's a gimmic, it's always silly, and I've never seen anything even remotely actually worth watching in 3D.




Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised to see more "gimics" like this used to get people to go see movies IN theaters. Studios have been worried about people buying DVDs and NOT watching them in theaters AND this is another way they can raise ticket prices.

So while we might see more 3D in the future -in theaters- we might not get it in our homes, simply because of the business model.

[Pirate]

I’ve stated here before that 3D makes me nervous because it’s a gimmick that very much appeals to the lowest common denominator. And, if it becomes too popular, studios will become more inclined to make bad movies with cool effects (Chicken Little, Beowulf, etc.) in order to serve the demand. However, I do think that filmmakers like Spielberg could probably come up with a way to make the technology work with the story. After all, widescreen (at least in the 50’s) was a gimmick to get people back to the cinemas and its use has become a huge part of the art form.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

So while we might see more 3D in the future -in theaters- we might not get it in our homes, simply because of the business model.

I agree with this, but this is simply a "for now" thing. When 3-D is less exciting and more commonplace in the theater, it will trickle down to home video (once the home video market slows down due to people getting used to 1080p 2D), and we will have to invest in another friggin format if Blu-ray is not spec-equipped for 3D very soon. It would be better if BD was the last physical format, period. It should be, as it has the space and bandwidth to meet the 1080p resolution plateau even in 3-D.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I think Lucas is still planning Star Wars in 3D, as well as that new Clone Wars cartoon.

Clone Wars will be in 3d, but Lucas gave up on converting the original Star Wars films. Real film just doesn't convert well using the psudo-2d to 3d process that's used on Disney's animated 3d films and such. Throw in the effects and shifted focus in scenes and it just wasn't going to work. Anyone who saw the Superman Returns "3d" section knows how little it really worked. While Warner was content with subpar for Superman, Lucas wasn't and since it never got to his liking, he gave up. I have heard rumors though that he may redo the entire series in cgi 3d.

As for home 3d systems, I know I've gone over all of them in other threads here a few times. The best bet for good looking 3d are shutter glasses with the right display, but I don't know if they will really catch on with the masses, even if they put the interface hardware in the blu-ray player's themselves as some companies have talked about.

Actually, Disney has yet to say what 3d format Hanna Montana will be released in, only that glasses will come with the disc and there is a 3d version. It probably is anaglyph of the red blue type unfortunately since that's easiest and cheapest. It also works the worst, especially with color films. Yeah, stuff is in 3d, if you like watching it all with messed up color. But somehow I can't see Disney throwing in multiple pairs of $25 shutter glasses in with the disc.

[Sehnzeleid]

I couldn't care less myself...

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

I couldn't care less myself...

You must care some, you took the time to post after all.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Wirehed

Studios have been worried about people buying DVDs and NOT watching them in theaters AND this is another way they can raise ticket prices.

I wish they would realize that it's the high ticket prices that has driven me to watch movies on disc rather than theaters. For the $16 or so that I would spend at the theater, I could spend a bit more and own the movie on disc. The wait times are a lot shorter too for movies to come to disc. The value of my dollar from going to the theater has plummeted, what with teenie-boppers and crying babies.

[Wirehed]

Originally Posted by ganthc

I wish they would realize that it's the high ticket prices that has driven me to watch movies on disc rather than theaters. For the $16 or so that I would spend at the theater, I could spend a bit more and own the movie on disc. The wait times are a lot shorter too for movies to come to disc. The value of my dollar from going to the theater has plummeted, what with teenie-boppers and crying babies.

Yeah, that's my feeling too.

That and most new movies suck beans.

The only films I go out and see in a theater are at my local "art theater" because they show wonderful classics and trash movies that are TONS of fun to see with a large audience.

["The Dude"]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Lucas gave up on converting the original Star Wars films.

Has this been confirmed? I'm not doubting you are anything, but I haven't read or heard that. That last I heard from McCallum is that they are still being worked on, but that there won't be any kind of a release until there's enough digital screens/projectors - roughly 3000+.

I'll agree that the whole 2D-3D thing might be gimmicky, but I would rather watch good 2D films that have been coverted to 3D than the constant, mindless, remakes that Hollywood is throwing at us now.

[biglyle]

Lucas really is doing everything he can to ruin Star Wars entirely. What a shame. Release the theatrical cuts on BR is the only way to save them imo.

[Ruined]

The main problem is that there are going to be movies released, like Beowulf, that rely on the 3D effect to create suspense, excitement, etc. And without that, translated to 2D on the home screen it will simply be boring or silly.

National Geographic's upcoming "Sea Monsters" Blu-ray is another one with heavy 3D effects... Which will now have pointless shots of sharks swimming directly at the camera.

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by "The Dude"

Has this been confirmed? I'm not doubting you are anything, but I haven't read or heard that. That last I heard from McCallum is that they are still being worked on, but that there won't be any kind of a release until there's enough digital screens/projectors - roughly 3000+.

McCallum said in the SW Insider last year that it was looking unlikely. Not eactly official confirmation of what I said I know, but it's along the same idea. It was other sources I have that told me Lucas had somewhat given up on it, at least where the original trilogy is concerned. Apparently the newer trilogy is no problem since most of it is digial (all in the case of EP 2&3), but the original trilogy was posing problems with the way it was filmed. Hence the all cgi re-do idea. But this is all way in the future anyway. There is a trailer done showing at various 3d expos for Ep. 4 though.

[Derb]

Um Yeaaahhhhh, I'm gonna need those TPS reports mmmmm k Yeahhhhhh.

Bad idea. 3-D is not the future & yes I personally would go blind if this crap hit home in a big way. The PS3 is a toy but wearing dorky glasses is ok mmmmk Yeaaahhhhh.

["The Dude"]

Originally Posted by dugpa

McCallum said in the SW Insider last year that it was looking unlikely. Not eactly official confirmation of what I said I know, but it's along the same idea. It was other sources I have that told me Lucas had somewhat given up on it, at least where the original trilogy is concerned. Apparently the newer trilogy is no problem since most of it is digial (all in the case of EP 2&3), but the original trilogy was posing problems with the way it was filmed. Hence the all cgi re-do idea. But this is all way in the future anyway. There is a trailer done showing at various 3d expos for Ep. 4 though.

I must have missed that. I don't subsribe to the SW insider, but I do check it out when a new issue hits, just to see what Lucasfilm news there is. It seems like that when the whole 3-D issue is brought up, McCallum says that there aren't enough digital screens to make it happen. As far as the whole OT-CGI re-do, I haven't heard anything about that. Would that mean that they would have to CGI all 3 films -actors included, or just the effects work?

Does that mean everyone else is giving up on the 2-D/3-D thing? Cameron, Zemeckis and Robert Rodriguez where alongside Lucas trying to make this happen.