Managed copy cancelled...

[videoworx]

Can a mod please change the title of this thread?

[Managed copy] is still very much a part of the Final documents. Nothing has changed in that regard. It’s just taking time.

AACS still trying to manage managed-copy - Media Wonk - Blog on ContentAgenda.com - 1500000150

[Mr. Furious]

I have never stated, advocated, or otherwise implied piracy was okay. It is not. I'm very respectful of other people's IP. However, I also believe in reciprocal personal rights. The studios are trying to fashion some sort of new meta-copyright in which they control 100% of the rights and you get nothing. I'm sorry, I don't agree.

Physical property and intellectual property are two entirely different things. Copyright ONLY exists because we as a civilization recognized that it made sense to create an agreement where content creators retained pseudo-property rights on IP provided we (the people extending copyright protection) saw some benefit. However, the studios have desperately wanted to change those rights and people like myself are not willing to relinquish our rights so that they can get more.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Can a mod please change the title of this thread?



AACS still trying to manage managed-copy - Media Wonk - Blog on ContentAgenda.com - 1500000150

Good news for those who want flexibility in their media! Perhaps the negative feedback on this issue will remind AACS members on the backlash of nixing consumer-friendly features.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

I have never stated, advocated, or otherwise implied piracy was okay. It is not. I'm very respectful of other people's IP. However, I also believe in reciprocal personal rights. The studios are trying to fashion some sort of new meta-copyright in which they control 100% of the rights and you get nothing. I'm sorry, I don't agree.

Physical property and intellectual property are two entirely different things. Copyright ONLY exists because we as a civilization recognized that it made sense to create an agreement where content creators retained pseudo-property rights on IP provided we (the people extending copyright protection) saw some benefit. However, the studios have desperately wanted to change those rights and people like myself are not willing to relinquish our rights so that they can get more.

And people like myself are completely puzzled as to why some people are willing to give those rights up with glee.

Perhaps it has something to do with going with the grain vs. going against the grain.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Can a mod please change the title of this thread?



AACS still trying to manage managed-copy - Media Wonk - Blog on ContentAgenda.com - 1500000150

So does that mean that we have to stop bashing Sony and blu-ray?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by ganthc

So does that mean that we have to stop bashing Sony and blu-ray?

I don't know, but it does mean we certainly can stop being overly defensive about it as has been the norm lately with some

[videoworx]

Originally Posted by Ruined

And people like myself are completely puzzled as to why some people are willing to give those rights up with glee.

You have yet to show anyone is giving up any rights. The people that want to copy movies will continue to do so, just as they did with VHS and DVD - regardless of any laws (which have never been enforced on individual consumers).

The other 90+ percent of the movie-buying population won't give a shit about DRM. Ever.

The fact that I can drop a copy of a purchased Blu-Ray onto my iPod is awesome, but I'm not going to use if very often. If I ever decide to move my collection to a multi-TB server, I know the tools will exist for me to do so.

You're just whining because there's no simple solution to get BDs to work with your Zune, Windows Media Player, or Xbox. I wonder why.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by videoworx

You're just whining because there's no simple solution to get BDs to work with your Zune, Windows Media Player, or Xbox. I wonder why.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

You have yet to show anyone is giving up any rights. The people that want to copy movies will continue to do so, just as they did with VHS and DVD - regardless of any laws (which have never been enforced on individual consumers).

The other 90+ percent of the movie-buying population won't give a shit about DRM. Ever.

Please explain how Amazon MP3 was able to shoot to #2 most popular internet music store within a month of opening if 90% of media consumers don't "give a shit" about DRM. At first they don't care, but once they get screwed by it, they care and in a big way.

The fact that I can drop a copy of a purchased Blu-Ray onto my iPod is awesome, but I'm not going to use if very often. If I ever decide to move my collection to a multi-TB server, I know the tools will exist for me to do so.

If you plan to use it ever, you should probably do it relatively soon because Digital Copy is time limited. The recent releases with Digital Copy have download codes that expire in April 2009.

And, the tools that will allow you to do so cost $125, plus put you in that good old legal grey area.

You're just whining because there's no simple solution to get BDs to work with your Zune, Windows Media Player, or Xbox. I wonder why.

A nice attempt at a jab, but unsuccessful I'm afraid. Your Digital Copy solution actually works just fine with Windows Media Player and XBOX 360 as well since 360 supports streaming PlaysForSure DRM, and Digital Copy includes a WMP PlaysForSure copy. So if you are running Windows Media Center, BD Digital Copy will work fine with it. No, Digital Copy currently doesn't work with Zune or Sony PSP without using one of the available PlaysForSure DRM strippers, but that is not the main problem with managed copy being axed.

Aside from the fact that Digital Copy's quality is subpar to even DVD, Managed Copy allows for easy, 100% no questions asked legal copying of movies to media servers and the like without jumping through hoops. I fail to see how a below-SD DVD resolution copy that only works with certain devices compares to an HD-quality Managed Copy...

[videoworx]

I specifically said movie-buying consumers, which has nothing to do with amazon mp3. Music is a very different animal than movies. Notice their Unbox service isn't doing that well.

The tools to copy Blu-Ray content to my hard drive might cost $125 today, but 3 years from now there will be dozens of freeware tools to make it happen. I can't see TB flash drives becoming reliable or affordable before that time. Nor do I see a need for that ability before then.

Also, I don't understand your continued contradiction. First, you argue that if Blu-Ray doesn't let up with the DRM, you'll switch to lesser quality download only rentals (preferably through a service managed by Microsoft).
But when offered a free lesser quality copy of the movie, with the purchase of the Blu-Ray, you cry foul.

I'm happy to accept free lesser quality copies of movies I buy (and despite what you promote, the digital copies can be copied just as easily as DVDs and Blu-Ray movies).

I don't find it acceptable to pay for lesser quality content, knowing there's something better out there.

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Also, I don't understand your continued contradiction. First, you argue that if Blu-Ray doesn't let up with the DRM, you'll switch to lesser quality download only rentals (preferably through a service managed by Microsoft).
But when offered a free lesser quality copy of the movie, with the purchase of the Blu-Ray, you cry foul.

Its simple, even if he refuses to admit it. He is bitter as hell that HD-DVD got dumped. This is so blatantly obvious it isn't even funny. He will never be happy with blu-ray, never, end of story.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by biglyle

Its simple, even if he refuses to admit it. He is bitter as hell that HD-DVD got dumped. This is so blatantly obvious it isn't even funny. He will never be happy with blu-ray, never, end of story.

lol. I'm not the one who can't get over the format war... I'm not the one who keeps bringing it up over and over again

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by videoworx

Also, I don't understand your continued contradiction. First, you argue that if Blu-Ray doesn't let up with the DRM, you'll switch to lesser quality download only rentals (preferably through a service managed by Microsoft).
But when offered a free lesser quality copy of the movie, with the purchase of the Blu-Ray, you cry foul.

I'm happy to accept free lesser quality copies of movies I buy (and despite what you promote, the digital copies can be copied just as easily as DVDs and Blu-Ray movies).

I don't find it acceptable to pay for lesser quality content, knowing there's something better out there.

Uh, very simple. The difference between Digital Copy's 360p and 720p is massive compared to the difference between 720p and 1080p. To even see a difference between 720p and 1080p you need a TV 46"+, while the difference between 360p and 720p is evident even at 26" size. Diminishing returns.

[videoworx]

The average person can't see the difference between SD and HD. They won't see the difference between the digital copy, and a horribly compressed online rental.

Again, those with the will and means (like yourself) will copy movies - regardless of DRM. You're just making a big stink about nothing.

Again.

And the mods will refuse to do anything about your constant trolling.

Again.

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by videoworx

The average person can't see the difference between SD and HD. They won't see the difference between the digital copy, and a horribly compressed online rental.

Again, those with the will and means (like yourself) will copy movies - regardless of DRM. You're just making a big stink about nothing.

Again.

And the mods will refuse to do anything about your constant trolling.

Again.

If you have a problem with a user, report the post.

j

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

If you have a problem with a user, report the post.

j

And what will that accomplish? If you guys cant see the constant trolling then us pointing it out sure wont help.

[chlngr1970]

I will say it again

If you have a problem with a post, report it. Don't retaliate, condem, nor comment on it. Just report it.

j

[elfman]

Originally Posted by videoworx

The other 90+ percent of the movie-buying population won't give a shit about DRM. Ever.

I almost agree with that statement, but it would be better worded to say that a majority of people DON'T KNOW enough about DRM to realize that they COULD care. In other words, they don't realize that making a copy of their purchased CD to take in the car is perfectly within their rights, and they don't know why. The don't realize that the option is there.

Just because someone doesn't know about alternatives doesn't mean that they don't care about it. That's over simplifying.

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by elfman

I almost agree with that statement, but it would be better worded to say that a majority of people DON'T KNOW enough about DRM to realize that they COULD care. In other words, they don't realize that making a copy of their purchased CD to take in the car is perfectly within their rights, and they don't know why. The don't realize that the option is there.

Just because someone doesn't know about alternatives doesn't mean that they don't care about it. That's over simplifying.

Doesn't change the facts though. People don't know because they don't care. If I am curious about something I look it up. People must not care enough about this to bother.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by videoworx

And the mods will refuse to do anything about your constant trolling.

I really have no idea where this attitude comes from. I don't think I've ever seen Ruined being a troll. At absolute worst, and even then I think it's stretching, he's a spammer.

Yes, he posts frequently and passionately about various technologies - sometimes in support other times against - but he always includes information, links and commentary and doesn't just resort to the kind of inflammatory language typical of trolls.

I fail to see how that kind of posting can be considered trolling. I for one appreciate the vast majority of Ruined posts. Sometimes I disagree with what he's saying, but then I usually don't read or participate further in the thread.

Above all he's a fountain of technical knowledge and an an asset to this forum. And while some of his messages have some spin to them, and maybe he's selective in his reporting, it's really not that big of a deal and certainly not trolling.

I'd argue that the posts by certain members calling Ruined on his posting style is more akin to trolling than anything Ruined's ever submtted.

But maybe that's just me.

KM

[dugpa]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

I really have no idea where this attitude comes from. I don't think I've ever seen Ruined being a troll.

Troll = anyone who's opinion you disagree with.

Honestly, whether managed copy is a part of the spec or not, that doesn't mean studios are going to use it. As I understand it, studios can decide which options of managed copy they would like to offer. So while you may see it as a part of the spec, don't think you'll be able to copy all your discs automatically. I'd be surprised if studios such as Fox or Disney allowed it.

[elfman]

Originally Posted by biglyle

Doesn't change the facts though. People don't know because they don't care. If I am curious about something I look it up. People must not care enough about this to bother.

You can't make that assumtion, IMO. I didn't know until recently that I could reprogram the "brain" chip in my Chrysler 300 so that it would have a more aggressive throttle profile... a buddy of mine told me about it. Now I'm going to get a chip and do it.

Using your deductions, I didn't "give a sh*t" about it before... and that's just not true. I just didn't KNOW about it. Not an exact analogy, but pretty close AND fresh in my mind right now!

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by dugpa

Honestly, whether managed copy is a part of the spec or not, that doesn't mean studios are going to use it. As I understand it, studios can decide which options of managed copy they would like to offer. So while you may see it as a part of the spec, don't think you'll be able to copy all your discs automatically. I'd be surprised if studios such as Fox or Disney allowed it.

That is one of the big bummers. It won't work with any of the current BD discs, as far as I understand it. And, it will likely be a per-release thing as you state. Either way, I think it is something we are entitled to as consumers.

[ganthc]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Either way, I think it is something we are entitled to as consumers.

And it's that sense of entitlement that I guess that gets me to disagree. I'm sure there are plenty that think they are entitled to not have to pay for movies or music. I think a happy medium has been struck as it is right now, where studios don't put a divx type scheme for watching our movies, and in turn the majority of the public watches their movies on disc in their players per its intended setup. If because of piracy the studios allow for managed copy to be used later on, then great. They can put that into place.

What gives me chills, Ruined, is this all or nothing attitude towards DRM. Studios won't let you make copies from the bd discs, well, you are all in favor of dumping 1080p and lossless sound to get a compressed lossy 720p movie that is anti-ownership, since you pay per viewing. Seems to me that if anyone is advocating a return to a divx style model, it would be the push to have your movie collection available only to you at $5 per viewing.

To me, I'd just as soon keep the status quo rather than seeing us forced into 720p/DD tracks of movies that we have to spend $5 at a time to view. Where's the freedom in that?