Please Explain the Pricing Logic...

[WAID]

First, I LOVE movies. And while I never bring up the subject I get lots of comments from guests that I should open a video store because I own a lot of DVD's. In short, I have embraced the DVD format from the start and have been loyal for about a decade now.

Here's where things get tricky: I wouldn't own as many DVD's except for the fact that I was willing to pay the price for them, and I think that price is what made the DVD format so popular with the mass public. So then why are Blu-Ray's so much more expensive? I'd pay a bit more for a better quality disc but I just don't see myself replacing the movies that I already have on DVD. I know the hi-def format war is over, and I don't but as many movies as I used to but does anyone else see a need for the price to come down somewhat? For example, I own a lot of the MGM Midnite Movie double-features and I hope more are released, but I can't see dropping $25 for an older title.

For what it's worth, I haven't bought a Blu-Ray player yet but I don't feel like I'm any less of a movie fan because of this (I read this theory on another thread).

Am I off the mark?

[Wirehed]

When DVD came out there were no MGM Double Feature Midnight Movies for $12. DVDs were around $20. Over the years the number of people who own DVD players has increased to the point where casual movie fans will blind buy low cost DVDs, that's why you see them everywhere.

Blu-Ray is a *beter* product, it has a premium price. Less people own Blu-ray players, so a much smaller base of customers is available.


Furthermore, most Blu-ray movies are only a few dollars more than their DVD counter parts, at least the street price is. New DVDs are generally $18ish dollars and new Blu-ray movies are generally $25ish, and many times even much less than that. I have a number of $15-20 Blu-ray movies.


I don't think DVD is going anywhere, so Blu-ray isn't directly replacing DVD. I don't think we'll be see low-cost double feature midnight movies showing up on Blu-ray anytime soon.

[dugpa]

More like about $30 when dvds first came out, and that includes older titles. Many of them were pan and scan or non-anamorphic too. Hell, I still remember paying $30 for a pan and scan dvd of The Committments back in 1998 (Fox is always the worst it seems when it comes to prices and features, be it the early days of dvd or the early days of blu-ray). In fact, the price didn't really drop until the masses fully adopted the format, sometime around 2001 I'd say. Prices went lower and lower from there till they sort of bottomed out around 2006 or so.
I just don't understand why people feel they shouldn't pay more for added features (better picture, better sound)? Seems like everyone wants everything for free these days and somehow feel entitled to it. You want to talk prices, try paying $129 for Disney laserdisc sets you get the same content on dvd now for $20, or $89 for new release VHS tapes, which was the norm back in the priced for rental days. Seems DVD has spoiled everyone and now they want it all for nothing. You don't go complain to the dealership that you can't buy a Ferrari for the price of a Kia do you?
Prices will go down when there's a larger base installed, as with any consumer electronics format. Just chill. Furthermore, as I stated in another thread elsewhere, I don't see how it is that people can't figure out how to take advantage of sales. There's at least one a month, often more, and you can usually get blu-ray discs for $15 or less. Just wait a couple of months and most new releases wind up in the sale. Of the 130 or so blu-ray discs I have, I doubt I paid more than $15 for all but 30 of them.
So to sum things up: 1) Quit bitching. 2) Prices will come down in time - be patient. 3) Quit bitching. 4) Take advantage of sales. 5) Quit....you know where I'm going.

[limacharliewhiskey]

Blu-Ray pricing is pretty similar to DVD pricing when it first came out, especially in DVDs first 2-3 years. A $15 DVD was very rarely and considered extremely cheap in DVD's 3rd year of existence.

If anything, some Blu-Rays are cheaper than DVDs were back then, as there were no Buy One Get One Free offers back then.

If you want cheaper Blu-Rays, I imagine you'll have to wait another 2 or 3 years before older catalog titles are reduced in price. It took about 4-5 years or so before DVDs started getting price reductions on the MSRP.

[Sehnzeleid]

Also it's vastly more easy to find out what's coming to Blu-ray, find info on specific titles, and even simply finding Blu-rays in stores. In DVD's early days it was ridiculously hard to just find stores carrying them. Most stores had just a couple squirreled away in a back corner if they had any at all. Also it was hard to figure what was coming, new DVD releases just seem to magically appear without notice.

On pricing, I can remember paying $30 a pop for Anchor Bay titles in '97-'98, the same ones either now replaced by better editions or now found in 6-DVD Anchor Bay box sets for $30 or less total.

So yeah, it's not much different. At least we aren't living in the $30-$60+ for single Laserdisc/$100+ for Laserdisc box set days.

[WAID]

Crap, I'm sorry if I came across as bitching about the issue but my experience was different than what I'm reading here. I actually was waiting in the weeds to but a laserdisc player in the early 90's and planned on spending $100 on those few titles I felt strongly enough to buy but it was always an issue of my cash flow at the time. I jumped onto the DVD wagon early on; I think I bought my first player in early 1999. I was already sold on the laser format, the player was far less expensive than the first VCR I bought 15 years earlier (and it came with 5 free DVD's by mail), the titles were far less expensive than laser and didn't require flipping. I was in!

But my recollection was that my first buys were all online and not often new releases, which generally dropped pretty quickly. With all of the online retailers there were e-coupons all over the place and I bought a lot. I specifically remember buying "The Birds" for $6, delivered. I bought the original "Alien" box set (which included the rare bonus disc) for about $40, and the James Bond sets for about the same around the year 2000. True, many titles were non-anamorphic or P & S (which I mostly avoided) but this format allowed me to own a library of titles instead of just a select few titles that I was willing to drop $100 for.

I have no problem paying a premium for a better quality product. I'm not bitching, and I do know how to bargain shop. I have a decent collection of DVD's (1200 or so titles) and have double-dipped at times, so I have never asked for something for nothing. Unlike the days of VHS, DVD was priced for mass sales from the start. Back then, you couldn't justify spending $80 for a copy of "Batman" but with DVD pricing so great the industry has (I like to hope) made it hard to justify anyone buying a bootleg.

I don't see the deals that used to exist, which is probably why I am questioning this more than others. Other than a few Criterion titles I doubt I have ever dropped as much as $20 for a single DVD title. So if the future means seeing "No Country for Old Men" on DVD for $19 and on Blu-Ray for $25 maybe that's a move that I will have to make because the cost difference isn't that great. I'm just curious to know if the Blu-Ray format will become the mainstream and bring the price point down to move more units.

[limacharliewhiskey]

Originally Posted by WAID

But my recollection was that my first buys were all online and not often new releases, which generally dropped pretty quickly. With all of the online retailers there were e-coupons all over the place and I bought a lot. I specifically remember buying "The Birds" for $6, delivered. I bought the original "Alien" box set (which included the rare bonus disc) for about $40, and the James Bond sets for about the same around the year 2000. True, many titles were non-anamorphic or P & S (which I mostly avoided) but this format allowed me to own a library of titles instead of just a select few titles that I was willing to drop $100 for.

You started collecting right at a time when online etailing was just beginning, and online coupons and discounts were rampant for etailers to gain marketshare and brand name recognition. A couple of years later, studios started to reduce MSRP for DVDs for the first time, and that's when we really saw discounts for DVDs in the $10 and under range. But one price that has stood is the discounted $14 or $15 for first-week releases. It has never dropped to $10, since MSRPs for new releases are still $29-$30.

Originally Posted by WAID

I don't see the deals that used to exist, which is probably why I am questioning this more than others. Other than a few Criterion titles I doubt I have ever dropped as much as $20 for a single DVD title. So if the future means seeing "No Country for Old Men" on DVD for $19 and on Blu-Ray for $25 maybe that's a move that I will have to make because the cost difference isn't that great. I'm just curious to know if the Blu-Ray format will become the mainstream and bring the price point down to move more units.

I think we're all waiting to see how mainstream Blu-Ray becomes. But the price point won't come down until Sony lowers the MSRP of older catalog titles. It is unlikely that new Blu-Ray releases will reach a lower price point anytime soon, seeing how SD DVD prices haven't moved much for new releases. Within 3-6 months, SD DVD MSRPs are reduced, but that same trend hasn't yet happened for Blu-Rays. If it does happen, then Blu-Ray prices may begin to come down.

[Astrakan]

Here's a thought... not sure how original it is... but:

I know there was talk of how Toshiba, being afraid to lose the cash cow that is DVD royalties, are now pushing upconversion as an alternative to Blu-ray.

Isn't DVD a cash cow for Sony too?

I can easily see a scenario where Sony would prefer to keep both formats alive. Keep cashing in on DVDs bought by the average consumer, and charge a premium on Blu-rays for home theater enthusiasts.

I know, the main hole in this theory is that if Blu-ray really took off and replaced DVD, Sony would make even more money because of all the royalties that would pour in.

But big business think in mysterious ways. They may feel it's too lucrative of a boat to rock it. I know many people have slowed their DVD buying because of the impending HD revolution. Maybe Sony are afraid that if they try a full-on change-over from DVD to Blu-ray, movie consumers won't enter the hypnotic buy-buy-buy frenzie that we've all been in for the past decade.

Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass?

KM

[billnye97]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

But big business think in mysterious ways. They may feel it's too lucrative of a boat to rock it. I know many people have slowed their DVD buying because of the impending HD revolution. Maybe Sony are afraid that if they try a full-on change-over from DVD to Blu-ray, movie consumers won't enter the hypnotic buy-buy-buy frenzie that we've all been in for the past decade.

Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass?

KM

Well I haven't bought a new DVD since I got a HD-DVD player and the PS3. If it wasn't on either format and I needed to see it I just rented it from Redbox for a buck a night. I also have bought way less because of the price of discs.

[Derb]

I still collect tv on dvd shows but thats it as far as SD goes for me.

Average pricing of HD titles are between $20-40 in Canada. Wallymart has them $40 titles on sale for $35ish but their selection is pure crap.

I do all my HD shoppin online (US) & probably have saved thousands doing so. If you don't mind shelling out average $25/title for premium video & audio, don't hesitate & don't upconvert. Get the real thing.

[plissken99]

Ah see I started in Xmas 97. I remember paying like $37 for the crappy non anamorphic T2 from Suncoast at the mall(that was the only place that had them before Best Buy, and the prices were a complete rip). I've already got 237 HD movies between Blu Ray and HD DVD, in what 2 years? It took twice that amount of time to get that many DVDs(granted I have a job this go round, but I still bought most everything I wanted as it came out on DVD in the day).

[dugpa]

Yeah, 2000 was a ways into dvd's product life cycle, having started in 1997, though I guess we're getting close to the three year mark for blu-ray soon. But dvd also was the fastest adoped consumer technology ever. It's all about market forces, and once blu-ray hits a wider level of adoption (assuming it does), prices will come down. Unlike dvd, blu-ray had the breaks applied a bit on adoption due to the format war (divx was never a serious threat to dvd), which causes a lot of people to hold off. Now that the way is clear, hopefully we'll see wider adoption and in turn lower prices. This year's holiday season will be a bit telling one on how the blu-ray trend is going.

[ganthc]

To me, the more people that have HDTVs, the more opportunities blu-ray has of growing. Unlike dvd, blu-ray does require a gateway appliance. As such, the potential market for blu-ray is only as big as the market of HDTV consumers. The step up cost is higher, but I think we are seeing a drop in prices for hdtvs with the deadline coming up for the end of analog. There could be a huge boon for blu-ray by the end of the year and into next year, with falling prices to accompany it.

[iluvalex]

I don't buy into the reason of more mass market then prices come down scenario. I also don't buy the idea of HD discs cost more to produce. A bit more maybe, but not significantly more that we see in the difference of pricing.

Do you recall what happened with CD pricing. For years the studio's got together and had basically an across the board pricing first at $15.99 and then it went up to $17.99. Why, because they could. There was a huge mass market for CD's, but we did not see prices come down. In fact they went up. This was a period in my life I never bought new. I always sought out used. I just could not justify the price of a new CD.

Then the market changed. File sharing, then file distribution, the album concept was slowly fading and the singles market was taking off. It was a whirl wind of new strategies. In a nutshell, the consumer got wise, realized the price of a CD was ridiculous, thus the studio's changed their pricing and tada! the $9.99 CD was born. Same exact CD that produced the week before.

So no, I don't believe the studio's are waiting to see mass market pick-up. They know exactly what they want to charge now and I think they could price it much less. I understand and kinda agree with Astrakan strategy ideas.

I believe a lot of people are like me. Yes, a better quality product, but it's not enough to spend more, replace old. The satisfaction is just not there. Regular DVD's deliver fine for me. I have HD satellite and know what it can deliver. I'm just not willing to fork over more money.

Listen up studio's. If you priced your HD like what I'm used to, then yes, I would definitely buy HD, invest in a player and you've got my attention. Right now, I can't hear you. La-La-La-La

[ganthc]

Samsung
Gen 1: BD-P1000 -- $1,000 MSRP
Gen 2: BD-P1200 -- $800 MSRP; BD-P1400 -- $500 MSRP
Gen 3: BD-P1500 -- $400 MSRP (Profile 1.1, update to 2.0)

Panasonic
Gen 1: BD10 -- $1300 MSRP
Gen 2: BD10A -- $600 MSRP
Gen 3: BD30 -- $500 MSRP (Profile 1.1); BD50 -- $700 MSRP (Profile 2.0)

Pioneer
Gen 1: BDP-HD1 -- $1500 MSRP
Gen 2: BDP-94HD and BDP-95HD -- $1000 MSRP
Gen 3: BDP-51FD -- $600 MSRP (Profile 1.1); BDP-05FD -- $800 MSRP (Profile 1.1)

Sony
Gen 1: BDP-S1 -- $1000 MSRP
Gen 2: BDP-S300 -- $500 MSRP; BDP-S500 -- $700 MSRP
Gen 3: BDP-S350 -- $350 MSRP (Profile 2.0); BDP-S550 -- $450 MSRP (Profile 2.0)

How about even without mass market prices are coming down? Supply and demand and the elasticity of the product have a direct impact on the pricing. That and also the price of the parts that make the product being sold. All I'm seeing is impatience...and people wanting cheap prices on opening day for movies. Guess what? If you wait a bit, sometimes not even a month, you can pick up most movies with bogos or sales. You can shop online and get good deals. I will say that the costs are not that much higher than dvd was when it first came out. Blu-ray came out early summer of 2006. We are just now getting into 2nd year of the format. I still encourage patience on the pricing. It's still too early to see Walmart style pricing on things at this poing.

[Sehnzeleid]

I will admit not buying many BDs in-store and then seeing the in-store prices will give you shellshock. Dirty Harry, Cloverfield, There Will Be Blood, Bee Movie, The Recruit, Battle Of Britain, Signs, Semi-Pro, Patton, The Longest Day, and Meet The Spartans were all $30 or $35 at the Wal Mart, Target, and Best Buy I walked in to today. Talk about a sour impression (for even a person whose a Blu-ray owner) and a way to make you feel like wasted a trip. I at least expected Dirty Harry to be $25 at one of these stores (the DVD was $16)...so much for that. I just can't see the justification in these prices. I know Fox have always been crooks, but that's 5 studios with such prices.

[WAID]

Originally Posted by iluvalex

I believe a lot of people are like me. Yes, a better quality product, but it's not enough to spend more, replace old. The satisfaction is just not there. Regular DVD's deliver fine for me. I have HD satellite and know what it can deliver. I'm just not willing to fork over more money.

Listen up studio's. If you priced your HD like what I'm used to, then yes, I would definitely buy HD, invest in a player and you've got my attention. Right now, I can't hear you. La-La-La-La

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I own some Criterion DVD's but only titles that aren't available otherwise, and even then I haven't bought many just because of price. For example, I have considered buying "The Blob" but can't justify the cost and am hoping that it will eventually be released elsewhere at a lower cost. From what I've seen, the improved A/V quality isn't enough of a leap to justify the extra money. Then to see that a new format may be even better would be frustrating. It reminds me of the days 25-30 years ago when you'd wonder if buying the special pressing LP was worth paying at least twice the price of the standard pressing (my experience: no).

For what it's worth, I also noticed that Deep Discount didn't have their semi-annual 20% off sale in May (maybe I've lost track of when it normally happens, but I thought it was usually May and November). I will gladly buy catalog titles when I see something interesting being released but I have definitely slowed down my buying overall.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by WAID

For what it's worth, I also noticed that Deep Discount didn't have their semi-annual 20% off sale in May (maybe I've lost track of when it normally happens, but I thought it was usually May and November).

It's on right now:

http://forums.dvdfile.com/bargain-ar...-6th-22nd.html

KM

[Derb]

The Recruit [Blu-ray]

$2.49 cheaper at Deep Discount than Amazon.com

Is this supposed to be an awesome deal?

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Derb

The Recruit [Blu-ray]

$2.49 cheaper at Deep Discount than Amazon.com

Is this supposed to be an awesome deal?

Think of it as 3/4 of a gallon of gas.

[No6PackJoe]

What kills me is the price difference between Amazon(us) and Amazon(canada)

example
amazon.ca
Hellboy [Blu-ray] (DVD - 2007)
Buy new: CDN$ 31.99 List Price $39.99

amazon.com
Hellboy [Blu-ray] (DVD - 2007)
Buy new: $16.99 List Price $28.95

Considering the Canadian dollar is on par, it's complete robbery.

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by No6PackJoe

What kills me is the price difference between Amazon(us) and Amazon(canada)

example
amazon.ca
Hellboy [Blu-ray] (DVD - 2007)
Buy new: CDN$ 31.99 List Price $39.99

amazon.com
Hellboy [Blu-ray] (DVD - 2007)
Buy new: $16.99 List Price $28.95

Considering the Canadian dollar is on par, it's complete robbery.

Just order from the US then . You pay the US price and it still ships from Canada so you pay not extra border related crap. At least this is what happened the last three times I have bought from them.

[Astrakan]

Originally Posted by biglyle

Just order from the US then . You pay the US price and it still ships from Canada so you pay not extra border related crap. At least this is what happened the last three times I have bought from them.

Yeah, it's been this way since Amazon.com's inception, long before they even launched the .ca version.

And while I agree that that's a solution, the price discrepancy is still annoying since the shipping from .com is so much higer than from .ca, and especially so since Canadians only qualify for free "super saver" shipping when ordering from the .ca site.

That said, depending on how much money you spend it can work out to be cheaper to order from .com, even when the prices are at par, simply because not only do you skip the "extra border related crap" you also skip Canadian sales tax.

I often keep two windows open and go through the checkout on both sites, and at the final step see how much everything comes out to before I submit the order at whatever site ends up being cheaper.

KM

[biglyle]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

I often keep two windows open and go through the checkout on both sites, and at the final step see how much everything comes out to before I submit the order at whatever site ends up being cheaper.

KM

Thats a great idea.

[No6PackJoe]

Originally Posted by Astrakan

Yeah, it's been this way since Amazon.com's inception, long before they even launched the .ca version.

And while I agree that that's a solution, the price discrepancy is still annoying since the shipping from .com is so much higer than from .ca, and especially so since Canadians only qualify for free "super saver" shipping when ordering from the .ca site.

That said, depending on how much money you spend it can work out to be cheaper to order from .com, even when the prices are at par, simply because not only do you skip the "extra border related crap" you also skip Canadian sales tax.

I often keep two windows open and go through the checkout on both sites, and at the final step see how much everything comes out to before I submit the order at whatever site ends up being cheaper.

KM

I've been buying the cheaper stuff from .com, but I'm going to try that.