The Battlefield: Dolby Digital vs dts (Official thread) - Page 5

tomdkat · 09-28-2004, 11:05 PM

Sycho, I've never seen those red clouds appear from my surrounds. How can I get that effect?

Sorry, I could not resist..

EDIT: Ok, guys, let's calm down just a bit. I don't think Dilmo was actually saying you have OCD or anything as he's not that kind of guy.

Peace...

***SeanL*** · 09-28-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sycho

i shall quote myself as no one seems to have understood or cared about this important point

We've heard you Sycho... many, many times. Are you going to answer me, or not? Why do you persist? I ask you why you won't let it go, and you post more proof for your side of the debate. Is it just a case of wanting to win an argument?

***Wirehed*** · 09-28-2004, 11:19 PM

It's interesting that everyone that says they prefer DTS quotes almost the same reasons.

I don't have a complaint with dd 5.1, but I tend to prefer DTS when given a choice.

**aintnosin** · 09-28-2004, 11:38 PM

4 out of 5 dentists recommend DTS to their patients who use codecs.

tomdkat · 09-28-2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

It's interesting that everyone that says they prefer DTS quotes almost the same reasons.

This is true and those reasons really tend to be inconclusive when talking about the "better" debate. I know dts is popular and a lot of people like it but what I also find interesting are those who think it's a "waste" a they have been some of the few whose opinions are well respected even though in this case they are in the clear minority.

Peace...

***Wirehed*** · 09-29-2004, 12:09 AM

All I know is what sounds great on my system. My DTS only Superbit titles are probably the best sounding DVDs in my collection.

But the EE Lord of the Rings discs sound fantastic too.

mighty mint · 09-30-2004, 04:47 AM

I agree with Sean, since Sycho loves DD so much he should get it tatooed on his ass...as for me...I am going for the DTS undies

tomdkat · 10-05-2004, 10:22 PM

Here is some previous discussion on this topic.

Peace...

Sycho · 10-05-2004, 10:42 PM

edited: never mind

tomdkat · 10-05-2004, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sycho

linky linky no worky worky

Do you get some kind of 404 Error or something? It loads fine for me.

Peace...

Sycho · 10-05-2004, 10:49 PM

sorry just seen "this image not availble" and just didn't bother to go down

I really love this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdkat

What are you talking about? EVERYBODY knows that Dolby Stereo Surround is *THE* audio format of choice, by definition.....

tomdkat · 10-05-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sycho

sorry just seen "this image not availble" and just didn't bother to go down

Oh ok, cool..

Quote:

I really love this point

Well, I try to keep it real...

Peace...

tomdkat · 10-06-2004, 12:25 AM

One other point I would like to add to this preference debate are DVD authoring issues/errors.

Here is analysis of Blade II DD vs dts audio and the audio mixes appear to be pretty close to identical, yet the DD audio appears to have an "edge" due to DialNorm compensation. Contrast this with the referenced U-571 dts audio error where the LFE channel had a 4db volume boost over the DD audio which means the dts audio will be more deep bass, not because of dts itself but because the LFE volume was increased a bit.

Maybe DD and dts are really closer than we want to admit.

Peace...

Terrell · 10-19-2004, 06:52 AM

I'll only add one post to this tired debate.

When all things are equal and the same masters are used for both tracks, the differences between DTS and DD are negligible at best, even indistinguishable. Sometimes the DTS track is better, sometimes the DD track is better. But it rarely if ever comes down to bitrate. The bitrate argument is completely useless and is not proof that DTS is better. In fact, DD is a more efficient compression. Not only that, DD is downmixed more often than not. Also take into account that DTS tracks tend to be a couple of decibels louder than the corresponding DD track.

So the only way to compare the two fairly and equally is to participate is matched, double-blind listening tests using the exact same setup for both tracks. In all the tests like this that I've read, the results are inconclusive. They could tell which was which with any reasonable degree of accuracy. Often they chose DTS as the better track. Other times they chose DD as the better of the two.

Either way, people tend to get caught up in all this marketing jargon. Just be happy that sound is as good as it is.

Iguana Man · 10-19-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Maybe DD and dts are really closer than we want to admit.

Peace...

HEY!!! You didn't capitalize DTS!!! Blasphemy I say, Blasphemy!!!

(and your may be right, until you get into those higher freq's though)

Dilmo · 10-19-2004, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

HEY!!! You didn't capitalize DTS!!! Blasphemy I say, Blasphemy!!!

You don't capitalize dts. No biggy.

Iguana Man · 10-20-2004, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilmo

You don't capitalize dts. No biggy.

Well it's no wonder DD sounds better then! It's capitalized.......the market!

You did make a good point though.....I wonder why they made it in lower case letters?

Perhaps the less compressed upper freq's and the overall soundstage/openess can be attributed to the smaller letters? Hmmmm.

KINDA LIKE UPPER CASE LETTERS CAN GET ANNOYING AFTER A WHILE, THEY SEEM LIKE YOUR YELLING AND NOT BEING SUBTLE OR OPEN?

(ok.....I quit)

Sycho · 01-18-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword of Whedon

When DTS preps the track, yes they cook it. Nowadays, hardly anyone sends their stuff to DTS for encoding

Yes, I am aware of that.

Quote:

Home DD tracks are typically modified to sound good when folded down to 2.0, and/or cooked to pump the bass

the theatrical tracks are mixed in a way so that they could be downmixed to 2channel, why, for the backup of the digital tracks in the theater, so it does not sound horrablie when the analog comes on, I'm not saying it's seamless, but it's done well enough.

Quote:

Look at LOTR-FOTR or Blade 2. Even on the FOTR:EE the DD track is still modified, listen to the arrows in Moria.

that make no sense, how would listening to the arrows make me know it's modified?

Quote:

The DTS is what I experienced theatrically

people have always believed that the dts track is the same as the dts in the cinema, this is completly untrue, the digital formats in theaters will almost always use the exact same tracks

Quote:

We're seeing more and more of these DD "home theater mixes"

these "home theatre mixes" are what the dts tracks would use if the producers of the disc choose to have a dts track, ie The Lion King, in R1 the home theatre mix was encoded in dolby digital while in R2 it was encoded in a dts track, besides disney, i know of no studios that have put out more than a few of these type of mixes

Sword of Whedon · 01-18-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

the theatrical tracks are mixed in a way so that they could be downmixed to 2channel, why, for the backup of the digital tracks in the theater, so it does not sound horrablie when the analog comes on, I'm not saying it's seamless, but it's done well enough.

That's a seperate analog 2-channel mag track. A specific stereo mix. There's no fold-down in theatrical. Dolby Digital is a digital optical track, while DTS simply carries timecode for running the DTS CD-ROM. If the digital track is damaged, the system goes over to the stereo mag.

Quote:

that make no sense, how would listening to the arrows make me know it's modified?

Arrow sounds are very high pitched, and the crushing of very high-end frequencies are one of the first things you do to make it fold down well for TV speaker playback.

Quote:

people have always believed that the dts track is the same as the dts in the cinema, this is completly untrue, the digital formats in theaters will almost always use the exact same tracks

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. While theatrical DTS is a different codec than home theater DTS, the mix is what's at issue, not the codec.

Quote:

these "home theatre mixes" are what the dts tracks would use if the producers of the disc choose to have a dts track, ie The Lion King, in R1 the home theatre mix was encoded in dolby digital while in R2 it was encoded in a dts track, besides disney, i know of no studios that have put out more than a few of these type of mixes

They're not always marked. New Line does it on almost all their titles.

Again, this is not a format war issue. It's an issue of you not giving correct information based on a misunderstanding.

Sycho · 01-19-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Again, this is not a format war issue. It's an issue of you not giving correct information based on a misunderstanding.

heres the deal, within the first sentence you have a huge mistake, thus I concluded the rest of your post, well, untrue

Quote:

That's a seperate analog 2-channel mag track. A specific stereo mix. There's no fold-down in theatrical. Dolby Digital is a digital optical track, while DTS simply carries timecode for running the DTS CD-ROM. If the digital track is damaged, the system goes over to the stereo mag.

magnetic has not been used on 35mm for like 30 years.

Sword of Whedon · 01-19-2005, 03:18 AM

Quote:

magnetic has not been used on 35mm for like 30 years.

That's news to me, considering that at a festival I help run we don't have 5.1, and we play exclusively off of the stereo mag tracks from brand new prints of brand new films

Whether or not it's magnetic doesn't change the fact that there are analog soundtracks on the film, in stereo, and that no theatrical fold-down to 2-channel is done.

Sycho · 01-19-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword of Whedon

That's news to me, considering that at a festival I help run we don't have 5.1, and we play exclusively off of the stereo mag tracks from brand new prints of brand new films

Whether or not it's magnetic doesn't change the fact that there are analog soundtracks on the film, in stereo, and that no theatrical fold-down to 2-channel is done.

brand new films use optical stereo, so before saying something that you think you know, make sure I don't know about it

plissken99 · 03-25-2005, 09:59 AM

A little more gas to throw on the fire... Whats with Warner putting DTS on the new Exorcist movie?

tomdkat · 03-25-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plissken99

A little more gas to throw on the fire... Whats with Warner putting DTS on the new Exorcist movie?

Someone's cousin really likes the new Exorcist movie and offered his hot girlfriend to the guy at Warner who makes those kinds of decisions if he put a dts audio track on the DVD.... simple.

Peace...

Iguana Man · 03-25-2005, 11:21 PM

Morticia!!!!!

What gives with all these wanna-be Bad Humor Men? It's MY title!!

Geez.....quit emulating me already. That's right....I'm talking to YOU Tom.

tomdkat · 03-25-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Geez.....quit emulating me already. That's right....I'm talking to YOU Tom.

Hey man, I'm not emulating you. If I was, I would have to take it down a few more notches... :p

Peace...

09-28-2004, 11:05 PM	#161 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	Sycho, I've never seen those red clouds appear from my surrounds. How can I get that effect? Sorry, I could not resist.. EDIT: Ok, guys, let's calm down just a bit. I don't think Dilmo was actually saying you have OCD or anything as he's not that kind of guy. Peace... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

09-28-2004, 11:19 PM	#163 (permalink)
*Wirehed* Producer/Admin NSFW Off 'the list' Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacto, Ca --Near Galt, home of LeVar Burton	It's interesting that everyone that says they prefer DTS quotes almost the same reasons. I don't have a complaint with dd 5.1, but I tend to prefer DTS when given a choice. __________________ The Order of the Zombie. The world's greatest zombie culture website. "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl dominos" In his house in R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits for the pizza delivery guy.

09-28-2004, 11:38 PM	#164 (permalink)
aintnosin Director/Moderator Not a fancy tickler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia	4 out of 5 dentists recommend DTS to their patients who use codecs. __________________ "The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them." - Eowyn, The Two Towers DVD Profiler \| DVD Aficianado \| DVD Spot \| Movie Reviews \| Facebook

09-29-2004, 12:09 AM	#166 (permalink)
*Wirehed* Producer/Admin NSFW Off 'the list' Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacto, Ca --Near Galt, home of LeVar Burton	All I know is what sounds great on my system. My DTS only Superbit titles are probably the best sounding DVDs in my collection. But the EE Lord of the Rings discs sound fantastic too. __________________ The Order of the Zombie. The world's greatest zombie culture website. "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl dominos" In his house in R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits for the pizza delivery guy.

10-05-2004, 10:22 PM	#168 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	Here is some previous discussion on this topic. Peace... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

09-30-2004, 04:47 AM	#167 (permalink)
mighty mint The Freshmaker! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the Land of the Ice and Snow, eh!	I agree with Sean, since Sycho loves DD so much he should get it tatooed on his ass...as for me...I am going for the DTS undies

10-05-2004, 10:42 PM	#169 (permalink)
Sycho I needs to show ID with a personal check Join Date: Dec 2003	edited: never mind __________________ On the bed, on the floor, on the towel by the door. In the tub, in the car, up against the mini-bar. Last edited by Sycho : 10-05-2004 at 10:50 PM.

10-06-2004, 12:25 AM	#173 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	One other point I would like to add to this preference debate are DVD authoring issues/errors. Here is analysis of Blade II DD vs dts audio and the audio mixes appear to be pretty close to identical, yet the DD audio appears to have an "edge" due to DialNorm compensation. Contrast this with the referenced U-571 dts audio error where the LFE channel had a 4db volume boost over the DD audio which means the dts audio will be more deep bass, not because of dts itself but because the LFE volume was increased a bit. Maybe DD and dts are really closer than we want to admit. Peace... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

10-19-2004, 06:52 AM	#174 (permalink)
Terrell Actor Join Date: Aug 2002	I'll only add one post to this tired debate. When all things are equal and the same masters are used for both tracks, the differences between DTS and DD are negligible at best, even indistinguishable. Sometimes the DTS track is better, sometimes the DD track is better. But it rarely if ever comes down to bitrate. The bitrate argument is completely useless and is not proof that DTS is better. In fact, DD is a more efficient compression. Not only that, DD is downmixed more often than not. Also take into account that DTS tracks tend to be a couple of decibels louder than the corresponding DD track. So the only way to compare the two fairly and equally is to participate is matched, double-blind listening tests using the exact same setup for both tracks. In all the tests like this that I've read, the results are inconclusive. They could tell which was which with any reasonable degree of accuracy. Often they chose DTS as the better track. Other times they chose DD as the better of the two. Either way, people tend to get caught up in all this marketing jargon. Just be happy that sound is as good as it is.

03-25-2005, 09:59 AM	#183 (permalink)
plissken99 Actor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuqerque, NM	A little more gas to throw on the fire... Whats with Warner putting DTS on the new Exorcist movie? __________________ “The more things change, the more they stay the same.” Snake Plissken Plissken's DVD, HD-DVD and Blu Ray collection And Plissken's home theater

03-25-2005, 11:21 PM	#185 (permalink)
Iguana Man Ex-BadHumor Man Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA	Morticia!!!!! What gives with all these wanna-be Bad Humor Men? It's MY title!! Geez.....quit emulating me already. That's right....I'm talking to YOU Tom. __________________ Get outside and have fun! Nacho Website Focus