EZ-D 48-hour disposable DVD releases

[mikenyc]

Courtesy of digitalbits.com....

Buena Vista has officially announced its first two "waves" of EZ-D 48-hour disposable DVD releases (which will be available in 4 test markets). Look for 25th Hour, Equilibrium, Frida, Heaven, The Hot Chick, Rabbit-Proof Fence, The Recruit and Signs on 9/9, and Dracula II: Ascension, Paid in Full, The Quiet American, Shanghai Knights, Sweet Home Alabama and They on 10/7. For the record, open them on the day you buy them and you'll be throwing them away on 9/11 and 10/9 respectively. How much do you wanna bet that unsuspecting consumers buy them (attracted by the super-low price) and then Disney starts getting complaints a few days later ("Yeah, my new DVD doesn't work for some reason. Can I exchange it?").

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#caft

Here's a New York Times, online article about the technology...

Courtesy of NY Times online....

DVD's Meant for Buying but Not for Keeping

Ann Johansson for The New York Times


By ERIC A. TAUB

LOS ANGELES, July 20 — Video rental stores want customers to return their movies, they just do not want them to do so too quickly.

When tapes and DVD's are returned after the due date, late fees often double the cost of a rental — highly annoying to consumers while providing no additional revenue to the studios that make the movies.

To help consumers avoid those fees, while trying to develop new revenue, the Walt Disney Company's home video division plans to test market a new type of DVD that will be priced about the same as a rental but never needs to be returned — because it stops working after a fixed period of time.

It is an experiment that will be closely watched in Hollywood, where the home video market last year represented nearly 59 percent of the film industry's $17.38 billion in North American revenue, according to Adams Media Research. Late fees are a lucrative source of additional income for Blockbuster Inc., which is a unit of Viacom Inc., and its competitors. Typically, the late fees account for more than 10 percent of the gross rental revenue at most outlets, according to the Video Software Dealers Association.

But, those extra fees do little or nothing to bolster the bottom lines of the film studios, which usually make most of their rental revenue from the initial sale of VHS and DVD copies to retail outlets. The test, by Disney's Buena Vista Home Entertainment could be a way to change that.

Set to roll out in September with eight titles in four markets, Disney's new EZ-D DVD self-destructs 48 hours after the purchaser opens the special airtight package. The disc is composed of a Lexan resin co-polymer developed by GE Plastics. The General Electric Company owns a minority stake in Flexplay Technologies, the company that owns the underlying process and has licensed it to Disney.

Once the product is exposed to the elements, a chemical clock starts ticking, turning the disc black and making it unreadable by a DVD player's laser after the designated time has elapsed. Until that happens, the disc can be played as often as desired. Employing a chemical rather than software process to disable the disc is meant to ensure that the process will work with any DVD player. And like any standard DVD, the discs can have software copyright protection that would deter a user from copying them onto the hard drive of a computer or onto a blank DVD that would not self-destruct.

Disney hopes that the purchase price of $5 to $7 will be close enough to the cost of a typical DVD rental that many customers will consider it an easy impulse buy.

Disney will be the first studio to license EZ-D from Flexplay. Among the other video leaders, the home-video divisions of Paramount, Sony and Warner Brothers declined to comment on their possible interest in the technology.

Convenience will attract consumers to the concept, the chief executive of Flexplay, Alan Blaustein, said. "With EZ-D, we are taking late fees and the video return process out of the equation."

A limited-play DVD service has been tried before — in 1998 — and it failed. But, EZ-D proponents argue that this time will be different. The DVD is now more popular and widely understood. That lends support to EZ-D discs because they will play on a standard DVD machine. To make them readily accessible, Disney plans on selling them in nontraditional outlets not usually associated with video sales or rentals, like convenience stores and gas stations. By sidestepping video rental outlets, Disney will be able to eliminate the middleman and keep a higher percentage of each disc's revenue.

At the same time, Disney wants to make sure that its EZ-D sales do not reduce rental profits. So the EZ-D titles will not be available until six weeks after the film is first released in standard video rental stores. To further differentiate the two products, the self-destructing versions will contain the movie but not any of the additional features that helped make the DVD format so popular, like missing scenes and director's commentaries.

There is nothing magical about the 48-hour life span of the disc. The manufacturing process can be adjusted so that the disc will expire anywhere from 8 to 60 hours after opening the wrapper. And enterprising consumers may find that they can extend the life even further. Staff members of New Scientist, a British publication, were able to slow down the chemical process and keep an opened EZ-D disc in a playable state for at least 96 hours by placing it in a sealed container and storing it in the refrigerator.

While experts say that the technology is intriguing, it remains an open question whether a self-destructing DVD will interest consumers who normally expect that any purchase of a physical object is theirs to use forever.

The first hurdle could be educating consumers. Take Netflix Inc., a successful Internet company that offers $20 monthly subscriptions that allow consumers to rent as many DVD's as they want for as long as they want but are not allowed to keep more than three at any time. Executives at the company, which has 1.2 million subscribers, say that just explaining to potential customers how the business works has been a struggle.

"Our biggest expenditure is getting people to understand our system of a fixed-fee subscription rental without late charges," said Ted Sarandos, Netflix's vice president for content and acquisition. "The studios underestimate how difficult it is to change consumer behavior."

Blockbuster is not threatened by the introduction of EZ-D's. "We don't see it going anywhere," said Karen Raskopf, the company's senior vice president for corporate communications. "Customers can now buy a used DVD from us that plays forever and costs just a few dollars more than an EZ-D."

As a response to consumer antipathy toward late fees, Blockbuster is testing a Netflix-like subscription service, called the Freedom Pass, in 700 stores.

Last month, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. also started an online DVD rental service to compete with Netflix.

Adi Kishore, an analyst with The Yankee Group, agrees that the disposable DVD concept faces a rough road toward acceptance. "When people think about getting a movie," Mr. Kishore said, "they think about going to Blockbuster, not 7-Eleven. And the overall mechanics of getting an EZ-D title are not that much easier than going to Blockbuster."

He argues that the idea may create a big splash initially, but that it may not last. "People will snap this up once," he said. "It will be a great novelty product."

It is also unknown if consumers will find a 48-hour viewing period sufficient. Those who typically watch a film over several days, catching a few scenes here and there, will be out of luck with EZ-D. Even if people intellectually understand the concept, said Thomas Wolzien, senior media analyst for Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. in New York, "when your ability to play it disappears after 48 hours, you are going to feel as if someone robbed you."

But Mr. Blaustein of Flexplay argues that the 48-hour period will not be a serious impediment. According to company research, he said, "well over 90 percent of DVD viewers watch an entire film in one sitting."

If the EZ-D disc is a success, its detractors say, expect to see an environmental mess, as millions of now useless discs clog the landfills with nonbiodegradable polymers. To counter these concerns, Flexplay has agreed to a partnership with a national recycler to collect used discs.

Even if the discs are not recycled, single-use disposable DVD's will result in net energy savings, according to a study conducted by Jonathan Koomey, staff scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. "The solid waste impacts may be more than completely offset by the gasoline saved from avoided trips to the video store. Gasoline savings could be 7.5 to 20 times larger than the increase in solid waste," Mr. Koomey said in an e-mail message.

Mr. Blaustein of Flexplay sees a wide range of other applications for its time-limited DVD technology. Screening cassettes of new films, review copies of CD's, or expensive technical catalogs would all be less likely to be pirated if they stopped working shortly after use.

Based on recent comments made by Michael D. Eisner, Disney's chairman and chief executive, those other markets may prove to be important revenue sources for Flexplay.

Speaking at a Sanford C. Bernstein conference last month in New York, Mr. Eisner indicated that he expected the EZ-D test to be short-lived.

"I think it probably won't work," he said. "I think it's going to boomerang on us, but it's a test."

Those backing the Flexplay effort say that Mr. Eisner is being too pessimistic and that consumers will fall in love with the EZ-D idea once they are see it.

"You want to go on vacation or something, you buy five of these and throw them in the trunk," said Robert Wright, the chairman of G.E.'s NBC unit.

[3DMan]

Divx reborn.

[manigrasso]

This has been brought up before, usually in the Soapbox forum (hint hint) and the now defunct Hot topic forum...

Aside from the waste of elements, I don't have as much of a problem with this as I did with Divx (and I find the argument that you'll save more resources by not having to return a movie specious. A lot of people rent movies while doing other things-on their way to a date's or friend's house, on the way home from shopping or dinner-and if your video store is very close, you're using precious little to get there and back). You don't have to buy a more-expensive player, you don't have to register your player, you can move it from player to player, home to home...

But I still don't see this taking off, especially with the titles they're choosing. I think a truer test would be a bona fide new release, or better still one of their animated "classics." See what happens when a DVD of a movie people really want stops working after 48 hours.

[PorkChopXpress]

The fact that there will be a six week gap between the DVD release date and the EZ-D releases just makes no sense. And on top of that, it doesn't include any of the special features. If I can rent a DVD for 5-days at a cost of $3.69 on release day, then why the hell would I need to wait six weeks to pay $5-7 dollars for what amounts to a 2-day rental.

This is a horrible idea.

[Istagi]

OK two things.

1. This belongs in Soapbox

2. mike please read your PM's regarding posting massive abounts of long articles.

[jdurg]

This is just going to open up piracy more and more. Now people will see a cheap alternative to actually buying discs. They'll purchase the self-destructors, copy them, then not have to worry about returning them. I just see this whole thing backfiring on the companies who support them. Plus, how many non-hardware copy protection schemes have actually worked?

[Flash Ahhh]

OK, anything post consumer that is use and throw away in my idea is a bad idea.

And this echo's of DIVX so hard it is not even funny.

Copy protection? Good luck.

And so forth and so on...

-Flash

[Damian]

The price is what really gets me. $5.00 to $7.00 each? What the fuck? I can rent a movie on Pay-Per-View for less, and record it to my PVR and watch it as many times as I want.
It's basically the same as taken seven bucks and simply throwing it in the garbage. I can care less if it's convenient. It's still about the same price as a rental PLUS a late fee as well.

Makes no sense and I'll be surprised if this takes off at all. You know Blockbuster's not going to push them, and I doubt you'll see many of them stocked on the shelves at Walmart. Most stores already have limited space dedicated to DVD's and what they do have are mostly taken up by new releases then a few other titles thrown in so I doubt they'll be clearing space for these things.

Or maybe they will. We'll see soon enough won't we?

[ElCuCuy2000]

This would have been a great idea if they would release movies on this format BEFORE being released on DVD..that way a person could choose if they would like to buy it on DVD..

Biggest mistake is having to wait 6 weeks AFTER the initial DVD release..does not make any sense whatsoever. Best Buy usually has new releases for $14.99 the first week they come out. If you're going to pay $7 for a disk that will destruct in two days..wouldn't you think that paying $14.99 for a DVD instead (that you can keep forever) is worth it???????????

What are these people smoking?

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by ElCuCuy2000

If you're going to pay $7 for a disk that will destruct in two days..wouldn't you think that paying $14.99 for a DVD instead (that you can keep forever) is worth it???????????

Actually, the consumer this would be ideal for is the person who doesn't care about getting the movie on the very day it's released on DVD and who is bad about returning rented movies "on time". With this system, they don't have to pay monthly subscription fees and can "save money" that way and not have to worry about returning the DVD late and paying late fees.

I know a number of people who would be happy to rent the DVD and just toss it when done. if someone pays $20 / mo for a Netflix subscription and they watch only one DVD a month, they're basically wasting their money. If they can pay $7 to watch the movie over a 48 hr period and then throw it away, that would be worth it to them.

The problem THEN becomes what happens to the $7 if I don't have time to watch the DVD within the 48 hr period? I guess if the clock starts ONLY when the sealed package is broken, then they can simply NOT break the seal until they are ready to watch the movie.

This doesn't sound as "far fetched" as most of you think it does....

Peace...

[SeanL]

Tom, everything you say is moot if the movie someone wants to see isn't available on that format. Right now Buena Vista is the one trying it out. So what happens if someone wants to see The Matrix: Reloaded or The Two Towers? They STILL have to go to a regular video store to rent them, or watch them on PPV. You can bet that no matter how well BV's test goes, there will be a studio or two not bother with this format. This throw away dvd format will only be as good as the selection of movies that are available.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Tom, everything you say is moot if the movie someone wants to see isn't available on that format. Right now Buena Vista is the one trying it out. So what happens if someone wants to see The Matrix: Reloaded or The Two Towers? They STILL have to go to a regular video store to rent them, or watch them on PPV. You can bet that no matter how well BV's test goes, there will be a studio or two not bother with this format.

Your points are valid, but still don't mean this discardable DVD format is a bad idea. We should wait and see how it works out.

This throw away dvd format will only be as good as the selection of movies that are available.

I don't quite get your point here. Would you expect BV to experiment with this new format by releasing ALL of their movies this way, only then to find out if it will work out or not? Look at DVHS. DVHS isn't dead and the D-VHS selection is getting larger:

http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?o...294981&redir=1

Let's give this a chance before we start making judgments....

Peace...

[aintnosin]

All those brain-dead chimps who got fired for coming up with DIVX, at least now we know where they're working these days. People who come with shitty, idiotic, senseless ideas like this should be given jobs disarming bombs. There would quickly a lot fewer of them.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by aintnosin

All those brain-dead chimps who got fired for coming up with DIVX, at least now we know where they're working these days. People who come with shitty, idiotic, senseless ideas like this should be given jobs disarming bombs. There would quickly a lot fewer of them.

Isn't this a bit extreme? Hell, at least they are just trying it out FIRST and not just changing over to this. I don't see why the idea is so idiotic. I haven't read anything to imply that this would be the ONLY rental option and if it tests poorly, then we're guaranteed that it won't become the only rental option.

What makes this idea so idiotic? This idea might be problematic, but that's a different statement.

Peace...

[PorkChopXpress]

I think you are looking at this the right way tom.

Most people on this board are dvd collectors and movie aficionados who plan their year around the DVD release schedule. It is difficult for us to step outside of ourselves and see it from an objective stance(I even chimed in with my negative comments). I think we forget that we are not necessarily the consensus anymore. Everyone has a DVD player these days...And most of these people are not as well informed and have no idea when a movie is released. So for them the 6-week waiting period will have little to no effect. And like you said, alot of people have a tendency to rack up late fees so for them this would be an ideal solution.

In short, this is may not necessarily be a bad idea, but for the dvd-holics, it flys in the face of all reason.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by porkChopXpress

In short, this is may not necessarily be a bad idea, but for the dvd-holics, it flys in the face of all reason.

I hear you and I understand completely. I'm one of the collectors you talk about. I just sometimes don't understand why something "new" is met with such hostility even though we don't even know how it will "fit" with our "normal" purchasing and renting practices.

For those who think this (EZ-D DVD releases) is a stupid idea, what would you propose as a better idea?

Personally, I don't see anything "wrong" with the current rental process/system and maybe Pay-Per-View or Video-On-Demand are better solutions to the "problem" EZ-D DVD is trying to "solve".

Peace...

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

I don't quite get your point here. Would you expect BV to experiment with this new format by releasing ALL of their movies this way, only then to find out if it will work out or not? Look at DVHS. DVHS isn't dead and the D-VHS selection is getting larger:

I'm not talking about Buena Vista... Here's what I'm getting at Tom, it doesn't matter how well BV's test goes, if one or more of the other studios don't like the idea, then it is doomed, cause as I stated earlier, this will only be as good as the selection of movies that are available.

[Enzian]

Would Netflix save shipping charges if they adpted this format where they could? That would be interesting... nothing to ship back.

Instead of three movies at a time, it could be 10 movies a month.

Uh... that doesn't make any sense. Nevermind.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by SeanL

it doesn't matter how well BV's test goes, if one or more of the other studios don't like the idea, then it is doomed, cause as I stated earlier, this will only be as good as the selection of movies that are available.

I get your point (now ) but I wonder how much the selection of movies will impact the test, at this point. If the particular movie a consumer wants to rent is available in EZ-D DVD format, that consumer doesn't necessarily care about other titles that are not in that format, yet. If the BV test goes well and they release MORE titles in this format, other studios might or might not adopt the idea. If consumers like it and demand it, I'm not sure if that will convince other studios to try it out especially if the cost to make EZ-D DVDs isn't "prohibitive".

I guess, I just think it's a bit too early to tell yet. D-VHS has died the "death" we figured it would months ago.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Enzian

Would Netflix save shipping charges if they adpted this format where they could? That would be interesting... nothing to ship back.

Instead of three movies at a time, it could be 10 movies a month.

I just wonder how they would know when to send more titles.

Otherwise, it sounds like an interesting idea.

Peace...

[Enzian]

I think a huge amount of Netflix's returns ($$) are made in the re-use of DVDs. Single-use DVDs would negate that.

Heh. Maybe their scheme could be... for $20, you get a movie a week, $30 you get 6 movies a month, $10 you get two a month...

[Dr. Shrinker]

My biggest concern is the environmental issue -- what typical American waste this idea is! I just tried to search for the number of DVD rentals in America last year...couldn't find a number but in the UK it was over 25 million. Let's say it's 100 million in the U.S...if half of those are "disposable" discs, we're talking 50 million pieces of landfill (if you believe people will "recycle" these, I've got some swampland to sell you), not to mention the petroleum used to make the plastic, fuel to transport, etc.

I shhouldn't be surprised, though. We live in a society where razors, diapers, dustcloths, cameras, and about a million other products are disposable. I've even seen a commercial which recommends using and throwing away paper plates because you won't have to waste so much time washing dishes!

Sorry for the rant. And for those of you that have noticed my avatar, yes, we do use disposable diapers. But at least I feel guilty about it..

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Dr. Shrinker

My biggest concern is the environmental issue -- what typical American waste this idea is!

Wow... excellent point! This would be a TREMENDOUS source of waste. This never even occured to me. I wonder if this was even raised to those who approved this idea for testing, even.

I think this is the best argument yet for NOT proceeding with the disposable DVD. Would bio-degradable DVDs be an option?

Peace...

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Wow... excellent point! This would be a TREMENDOUS source of waste. This never even occured to me. I wonder if this was even raised to those who approved this idea for testing, even.

Hmmm, didn't read the whole article, did we?

Since you obviously didn't read it:

If the EZ-D disc is a success, its detractors say, expect to see an environmental mess, as millions of now useless discs clog the landfills with nonbiodegradable polymers.

Reading is knowledge.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by SeanL

Since you obviously didn't read it:

That's not true because when I read it, that part wasn't there.....

Peace....

[SeanL]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

That's not true because when I read it, that part wasn't there.....

Peace....

Uh huh...likely story. I'm thinkin' you just skimmed over mikenyc's initial post.

You're a moderator, don't you know you have to read every word of every post?

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by SeanL

You're a moderator, don't you know you have to read every word of every post?

Peace....

[larphillips]

Back to topic...

As the point was raised earlier, this technology certainly isn't for us or people like us. But they are not talking about doing away with one in favor of the other, so there is no reason to raise our ire in that respect. Now on the other hand, here is where it would be a big boon on the side of convenience.

They have been trying to push a viable concept of vending machine rental for a long, long time now. They tried with VHS, but it was just too bulky to fit a good selection of movies in. They tried DVD, and while the size was a plus, there was the problem of returns. Since most vending machines are leased to individual entrepenuers, they could only eat the cost of late or missing discs for so long. Even with credit card guarentees, the owner still had to wait too long to get their money back... and as you probably know, it is a hard life where every check counts.

So with this technology, you take the entire issue of returning the movie out of the equation. Imagine the possibilities now of disposable vending machine movies -- Hotels, airports, train & Bus stations, gas stations, grocery stores, shopping malls, etc. With more and more people owning the portable players, car players and DVD capable laptops, your market increases all the time.

And you are able to target a whole new group of people... not us, or frequent renters. No, you are going after the folks who either infrequently or never wander into a video store and who enjoy a movie when they catch it on TV, but really don't go out of their way for one. Now, they can grab a movie as a total impulse purchase, and at costs that equal or beat what you are charged for hotel in-room movies, in-flight movies, etc. So if you are on a long car trip with the kids, grab a couple of these and not worry about returns, damage, etc.

I think it's a great idea, and if it makes more people into movie fans, even better. Think of it as a gateway drug into our world!

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

I think it's a great idea, and if it makes more people into movie fans, even better. Think of it as a gateway drug into our world!

Actually, this will only lead to more complaints about these disposable DVDs not being available in widescreen or multi-disc sets not having both discs or other stuff like that....

Peace...

[larphillips]

I think the market for these discs aren't 'us' though. Again, these are for the folks who desire or are acustomed to watching their movies in full screen. And these obviously aren't movies to be collected, kept, savored over. Multi disc sets are for people that want to know all of the behind-the-scenes tidbits. The group that would take advantage of the disposable DVD could probably care less, they just want to have some sort of 'eye candy' or 'background noise' while they travel, or pick their nose in the hotel room. Just something to keep the kids quiet.

And if those people get to the point where they crave a lot more from their movie experience, then they can graduate up to the normal DVD.

Again, I think it is a great way to target a market that is being left behind, but still has money to spend.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

I think the market for these discs aren't 'us' though. Again, these are for the folks who desire or are acustomed to watching their movies in full screen. And these obviously aren't movies to be collected, kept, savored over.

Come on man.... this is a very closed minded perspective. The market for these DVDs is the "casual" movei viewer, ok, I'll give you that. Once these DVDs actually hit the street, I'm sure there will be a number of "enthusiasts" who try them out and who will find them very convenient. I can see "enthusiasts" who are traveling and want to watch a given movie that they might already own but left that particular DVD at home. These people would WANT the widescreen version of the movie.

The implication that the EZ-D DVD market targets those who "desire" fullscreen (I think a number of enthusiasts are accustomed to watching movies in fullscreen even though we prefer and demand widescreen) is really off the mark, I think. EZ-D DVD is another idea for making yet more money off DVD technology and if the selection of movies gets large enough, the sheer convenience of it could make it a great success (discounting possible DVD player compatibility problems). I don't think the "us vs them" mentality is really applicable here.

As for "savoring" over the EZ-D DVD movies, it's not about these being collectible discs or not. It's about then serving the purpose of making movies available to peple when they want them and in as convenient a way as possible.

Peace...

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Come on man.... this is a very closed minded perspective. The market for these DVDs is the "casual" movei viewer, ok, I'll give you that. Once these DVDs actually hit the street, I'm sure there will be a number of "enthusiasts" who try them out and who will find them very convenient. I can see "enthusiasts" who are traveling and want to watch a given movie that they might already own but left that particular DVD at home.

Closed minded? No, not at all. I'm not saying enthusiasts wouldn't give this a go, I'm just saying that they are not the intended market, nor will they be the driving force if the concept takes off. I can see how an occurance would come up for someone to have a 'travel version' of their favorite movie at home, but I seriously doubt that is going to be a very large sector of the market.

Originally Posted by tomdkat

The implication that the EZ-D DVD market targets those who "desire" fullscreen (I think a number of enthusiasts are accustomed to watching movies in fullscreen even though we prefer and demand widescreen) is really off the mark, I think. EZ-D DVD is another idea for making yet more money off DVD technology and if the selection of movies gets large enough, the sheer convenience of it could make it a great success (discounting possible DVD player compatibility problems). I don't think the "us vs them" mentality is really applicable here.

There is a large difference to being accustomed to something and not caring, and being accustomed to something and really being bugged by it. I think the bulk of the people here are bugged by full screen. But there is a huge segment of the casual movie watching population who just don't care one way or another. It's not an 'us' vs 'them' mentality at all, since not only were we all once 'them,' but I'm sure we still have quite a few of 'them' in our lives. I just think that we are not the target audience of this concept. Simple as that. We are already being served by the direction that DVDs are going in now. The idea of this is for the segment that is not being served, yet will still spend money given the right circumstances.

Originally Posted by tomdkat

As for "savoring" over the EZ-D DVD movies, it's not about these being collectible discs or not. It's about then serving the purpose of making movies available to peple when they want them and in as convenient a way as possible.

Peace...

I think that is the point I already made. I was answering your line on people being concerned that special features, widescreen, etc would be missing from these discs. Well, I'm sure that would be the case on purpose. As we both agree, these are movies of convenience. If someone needs all of the bells and whistles, as we all seem to, then that person will walk into a store and actually buy the better version. You've got to admit that the profit margin is much higher for them on a purchased disc than it would be on the EZ-DVD. So again, my gateway drug analogy is appropriate. The studios want to hook in more buyers, convert the masses, etc.

And I stress that I don't have a problem with the concept or anything else about this. It is not a competing, incompatable format. It won't squeeze out the big, fat, fully loaded discs that we all love, and again, I think it will make more movie fans out there.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Closed minded? No, not at all. I'm not saying enthusiasts wouldn't give this a go, I'm just saying that they are not the intended market, nor will they be the driving force if the concept takes off.

I think anyone willing to buy one of these disposable DVDs is part of 'the market' and fullscreen vs widescreen preferences don't really come into play until people express dissatisfaction with the product that is presented to them. Disposable DVDs are not "targetted" at those who aren't necessarily DVD enthusiasts or collectors or anything else used to qualify the "us" you refer to. Disposable DVDs are targetted at anyone interested in buying one and there isn't any "qualities" of consumers that would "alienate" them from the "target market".

There is a large difference to being accustomed to something and not caring, and being accustomed to something and really being bugged by it. I think the bulk of the people here are bugged by full screen.

There are a lot more people who buy DVDs than participate here, so it's hard to use our membership as a "guide" to the mindset of other DVD enthusiasts out there.

I just think that we are not the target audience of this concept.

I don't see how this can be the case. Just because a DVD is disposable doesn't mean a collector won't be interested in buying one.

If someone needs all of the bells and whistles, as we all seem to, then that person will walk into a store and actually buy the better version.

Not if watching the extras is part of the "DVD viewnig experience". How many people don't watch the extras on multi-disc DVDs they rent?

You've got to admit that the profit margin is much higher for them on a purchased disc than it would be on the EZ-DVD.

True...

It won't squeeze out the big, fat, fully loaded discs that we all love

I think this is the root of our disagreement. I don't view EZ-D DVD as having any impact on the DVDs I purchase to add to my collection. I view EZ-D DVD as being more on the "rental" side of the DVD spectrum than on the "collecting" side. The DVDs I rent from Netflix don't come with the DVD cover so I have NO IDEA what the covers or cases of most of the DVDs I rent look like until I buy them. As a result, I focus mainly on the movie _itself_ any maybe look at the extras if I'm interested in possibly purchasing the DVD to add to my collection.

Peace...

[larphillips]

Tom,

I think you are approaching this whole discussion from a very personal viewpoint, and that is valid. It is part of the "if I am feeling this way, I know I'm not the only one" point of view.

But I am looking at this from a strictly business, market oriented point of view. From the things I have read in the trade mags and from my understanding of and experience with the studios and their marketing departments, I just understand their approach with this concept. If you knew how they segment and prioritize different types and ages of consumers, the frequency with which they spend their money, the free time available, and the average disposable incomes of each of these groups (and perhaps you do,) you would see how and why they approach things the way they do.

There is constant pressure to increase sales and market share, and once you max out one group, you have to find out how to hit the next. Each group has it's own set listing of needs and wants, and each group has to be approached in a different way. My point is that that there is a very large fat market there ready to be tapped, and that this is the latest tool they are using to tap it. Does that mean that it doesn't have appeal, use, or qualities that the other groups are looking for? No. It's just that this concept will be specifically tailored to the group they want.

Fundementally, I don't think we really disagree with much on this idea. I just think we are looking at the same object from two different mountaintops.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

My point is that that there is a very large fat market there ready to be tapped, and that this is the latest tool they are using to tap it. Does that mean that it doesn't have appeal, use, or qualities that the other groups are looking for? No. It's just that this concept will be specifically tailored to the group they want.

Actually, I'm in total agreement with you on this. I just don't think you've "properly" defined the "group" being targetted with this. For example, there have been several "rant" threads in the past complaining how BlockBuster only stocks fullscreen DVDs for rent and "we" want to rent widescreen DVDs. Since the EZ-D DVD release is targeting DVD "renters" vs "buyers" (why would you want to add a DVD that will "self destruct" to your DVD collection? ), I see the same arguments being made about the availability of widescreen DVDs for rental purposes being applied with EZ-D DVD.

It sounded like your position was people like "us", here at DVD File who are avid DVD collectors, are not part of the "target market" od EZ-D DVD since we're collectors. Is this your basic position?

My contention is even "we" DVD collectors rent DVDs, thus becoming part of the "target market" of EZ-D DVD. In other words, I don't "we" are any different from those whom you implied compose the "target market" of EZ-D DVD. You did state earlier that the availability of widescreen EZ-D DVDs would NOT be a major issue since the "main" people EZ-D DVD is targetting are those who are used to watching movies in fullscreen.

The business apect of it, I have no argument with. However, your argument separated "us" from those whom you think EZ-D DVD is targetting and that's where my rebuttal stems from.

Still, even though EZ-D DVD would be very convenient for DVD renters, the waste issue still remains and qualifies as a "deal breaker" for me.

Peace...

[larphillips]

I think the basic confusion lies in my neglecting to explain clearly that I felt there were a couple of kinds of renters. I think it was in one of my first posts in this thread, but I tried to highlight the differences between the renter who is a movie buff and the renter who is a casual, happenstance renter at best, or one who avoides renting because of the hassles at worst. They don't want normal consumers of movies (rental or sales), they want that group who do NOT ususally rent or buy. So if when I refer to 'us' as a term, I usually mean this board and the bulk of the people who make it up... movie fans. Rent or buy, it doesn't matter, fans nonetheless. Are we the target? No. Will be try it out? yes. Will we hate it? probably. For what they intend to do, will us hating it matter to the studios? no.

This is another instance where I don't see the EZ-DVD squeezing out the rental of "normal" discs as well. I think at the very minimum you may see the two co-exist in the same kinds of stores, but the true main destination for these discs are in the vending machines that can be plopped in "impulse buy" zones, and hanging from pegs at checkouts.

I think this is a complimentary technology, not a competative one.

And I agree with the waste issue. It's very bad, and I'm far from a "GREEN." Will it spoil the land as badly as disposable diapers? No, but it won't be pretty. I would love to see a biodegradeable plastic used for the disc. Hell, if it's only good out of the package for 48 hours, perhaps there are options available for some sort of 'organic' material being used... just like the biodegradeable plastic-like golf tees. Or better yet, a recycle program or slot on the machines... a place to put the discs whenever you get around to it. Make them into benches and playground furniture like McDonalds does.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

I think the basic confusion lies in my neglecting to explain clearly that I felt there were a couple of kinds of renters. I think it was in one of my first posts in this thread, but I tried to highlight the differences between the renter who is a movie buff and the renter who is a casual, happenstance renter at best, or one who avoides renting because of the hassles at worst. They don't want normal consumers of movies (rental or sales), they want that group who do NOT ususally rent or buy.

Thanks for the clarification as I see your perspective a bit better. If your perspective is really from the perspective of those backing EZ-D DVD, I think they're making a bad business decision with their "target market". I'm not saying YOU are wrong or anything but only that I think those targetting EZ-D DVD at the group you describe is really the wrong approach and I'll get into that next.

So if when I refer to 'us' as a term, I usually mean this board and the bulk of the people who make it up... movie fans. Rent or buy, it doesn't matter, fans nonetheless. Are we the target? No. Will be try it out? yes. Will we hate it? probably. For what they intend to do, will us hating it matter to the studios? no.

Ok, this is where I get into it. I rent from Netflix.com _purely_ because of the convenience of it, at this point. They have a great selection, but MOST of the movies they have I will probably never be interested in watching so the convenience of not having to stand in lines and deal with the limited selection of my local BlockBuster is a GREAT advantage. Renting from Netflix is not "ideal" since I still have to mail the DVD back. If I didn't have to do that, I would be even happier.

The reason I think their "target" is wrong is the renting habits of "us" might be more similar to the renting habits of the "target" than they, or you, are allowing for. Are you saying a "movie fan" will have MORE patience to wait in line at BlockBuster or Hollywood video than a casual movie viewer? Look at how impatient people are about getting movies released on DVD at all?

I think your description of the "DVD vending machine" is a great one and one that is the best application EZ-D DVD. Someone walks past the vending machine and sees some DVD they want to check out. They pay their money, get the DVD package, go to their destination and crack open the package and watch the DVD when they are ready to do so.

How does one being a "movie fan" really fit into the above description? Well, if one of "us" browses the selection of DVDs in the vending machine and sees only fullscreen versions of everything, they probably won't buy anything and will watch the movie later, at some point. EZ-D DVD just lost some money. If the vending machine had widescreen and fullscreen versions of the DVDs and the casual movie viewer really doesn't care which version they want to watch as long as they get to watch the movie, then EZ-D DVD has just been positioned to appeal to both the "movie fan" as well as the casual movie viewer.

I can still rent movies from Netflix and any given movie that I don't want to wait for from Netflix, I can maybe find in one of these vending machines, especially if it's a new release. It took me over 4 months to rent Bedazzled from Netflix.

I also better see how this is not really competitive to DVD renting, which is even MORE reason to appeal to the general DVD consumer rather than just one aspect of it. If I'm in line at some store and stroll by a DVD vending machine as I wait to purchase my goods, would I see the DVD I want to rent and say "Naw, I'll wait until I get to BlockBuster and rent it then." I would imagine if the price was right and it was in the format (fullscreen or widescreen) that I wanted, I might buy the DVD right there and watch it when I had time (especially if I already had overdue DVDs from BlockBuster or whatever).

This is why I think it's a mistake to "target" those who are "casual movie viewers". The vending machines won't have the selection of Netflix or Blockbuster. The vending machines can dispense DVDs to whomever inserts money into the machine, regardless of casual or serious movie viewer. If the movie is worth adding to the collection, the movie can still be purchased at whichever place I prefer to buy DVDs from. What does being a "casual" movie viewer have anything to do with this? Of course, if they DO stock only fullscreen DVDs and don't have a decent selection of movies in a vending machine, that will just about guarantee that only the "casual" movie viewers will be the ones using this but that will be because of how EZ-D DVD was "rolled out" and not because the idea itself was "bad" or anything.

Working in the computer industry for a little over ten years has taught me one thing, some people are masters at mis-use of technology as they deploy the wrong technology for the wrong reasons and then scratch their heads when things fall apart. If implemented right, I think your "DVD vending machine" idea could be successful but if what you're saying is how they are planning to implement this, I think it won't be as successful as it really could. Of course, this is just my opinion and until these "vending machines" start appear who knows what will really happen.

Is asking to have a widescreen DVD in the vending machine really too much to ask?

Peace...

[larphillips]

Well, I think for one, cost is going to be a major factor involved in what goes on the disc. The cheaper they can go, the lower they can keep the price while still keeping it profitable. By cutting down on mastering and authoring time, they will sacrifice things. At this point, remember that a plan is just a plan. The market will drive the business. They'll track every little option, and if there are two "flavors" if you will (P&S and WS), at first and one sells significantly better than the other, then you know eventually it will be one flavor.

So no matter how it starts, there is enough invested in the technology that they will try to make it work. Remember, it took awhile for LD to finally tailor itself to what their customer base wanted in a disc. Nearly by the time they got as good as they could get, the format went away.

And they could turn on a dime with this whole thing and shift movies out if they are failing and concentrate on adapting it to software and game rental.

As it is, it will be a lot of talk and wait-and-see. It will be interesting to come back and read this thread a year or two after this thing hits.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

As it is, it will be a lot of talk and wait-and-see. It will be interesting to come back and read this thread a year or two after this thing hits.

Yeah, you're right about everything you posted in your last response. It WILL be interesting to come back to this thread in a year and see how things turned out.

Peace...

[larphillips]

It sure was fun, though.

I prefer these discussions where no one is 'right' or 'wrong' and where the chasim of difference slowly begins to close.